Why the snub on Savard for Team Canada?

[beerpaul*]

Problem: You're going to tell us that we can't judge Marc Savard because we don't watch him enough. What about the players that you are judging to be worse than Savard? Can you say that you've watched them all enough times to accurately measure their talent compared to Savards?

That part aside, Marc Savard doesn't make this team for a couple of very simple reasons that have been explained before.

1) He's a very good player. I'm not going to doubt that purely based on playmaking abilities, Savard probably deserves to be top 10 in the NHL for centres. However, he's a small guy who is not known historically to be a good defensive player. He's a guy who has in the past had his drive and his work ethic questioned. These are not qualities that look good on a player at an international level. And when you factor in these deficiencies into the rest of his game, it doesn't help his case for being at the highest echelon of NHL talent.

2) It's established that he won't be a checking center. It's not in the nature of his game to fill that role. Look at the roster. Joe Thornton is likely going to be a checking center. You can't possibly argue that in any world, even one in which I'm not a Sharks fan and you're not a Thrashers fan, that Savard is better than Thornton. Therefore, if Thornton is better than Marc Savard, and he (Thornton) is being relegated to a checking role, one could conclude that Savard doesn't have a shot at making it.

Marc Savard is a very very good player. He could make most other countries' olympic squads. He could make a Canada 2 squad. He will likely be present at any world championship of hockey occuring in a year when Atlanta doesn't make the playoffs or gets knocked out early. The simple fact is that he won't displace one of the 4 or 5 centers who will make this team as centers (never mind guys like Brad Richards who could slide into an open center spot and then let Canada add another winger)

Stop accusing us of being unfair and accept the fact that Savard won't make it. I want Patrick Marleau to make this team more than anything, but not his spectacular play of late, him being teammates with Thornton now, or even his history of playing internationally is going to help him nab a spot on this team in all likelihood.

Okay, all you anti-Savard people, I'd like to ask you a favour. Before you start your diatribes, honestly state how many times you seen Savard play this year...or since he's been with Atlanta. This year I've watched about 15 Thrasher games. "Nemesis" says Savard has not had a good reputation for his defensive play and intensity. Must be something you read off a Calgary Flame message board 8 years ago. Game in and game out he can be counted on more than any other Thrasher of "showing up". If his defensive game is so bad why does Hartley play Marc on the PK? Thornton will not be a checking centre...he will play on the first or second line AND will play on the PP. Your sound as if Thornton barely made the team....when in fact he was probably the first player locked into the team.

 

[beerpaul*]

Marc Savard is a wonderfully talented hockey player who has done nothing but put up points over the last two years. I've been tracking him since he won two scoring titles in the OHL. (And would have been the first to win it three straight years if not for an injury).

But he doesn't have a track record of success. You can pin the blame on his team, but what has he ever won? And when the season is done, why hasn't he been on Canada's World Championship team? Performance at the Worlds carries a lot of weight in Gretzky's eyes. Just ask Ryan Smyth and (until tomorrow) Eric Brewer.

Also, as pointed out before, there are plenty of other highly skilled centres out there who contribute more than just offence. Sakic is the ultimate player: dangerous as a shooter and a passer, dominant in the defensive zone, and a great leader. Thornton is an awesome combination of size and skill. So is Lecavalier. (Richards will get shifted to the wing, which he has played extensively). Savard? If he's not on your top two lines, he might as well not be playing.

Draper is the shut-down centre. I don't see Savard getting that role. (I'd actually rather see Alyn McCauley in that spot, but he's not eligible because he was left off the 81-player list).

With the exception of Thornton, all of these players have won multiple championships of some form since graduating junior. Thornton was the best player at May's World Championships, and did come out of it with a silver. Thus, he's a lock.

Daniel Briere, another highly-skilled but diminutive centre, has a better shot of making this team. Why? Two world championship gold medals. (2003 and 2004). Of course, Briere won't be part of the team this year, and nor does he deserve to be.

Gretzky has previously said that those who have won as part of the program before will have to play their way off the team. Savard hasn't won anything, and he's 28.

A gifted centre? Yes. I'd give him strong consideration for my B team. But Team Canada 2006 material? No. Not when you look at the multiple giftings and the past track record of those ahead of him.

His Oshawa Generals won the OHL Title his last year there. I believe he scored the winner in OT. Is it Marc's fault that he hasn't been chosen for team Canada at the Junior or Pro level...even though he's winning scoring titles and putting up tons of points? One player can win a team a Stanley Cup? If these numbskulls at Hockey Canada put Savard on the team, I wouldn't be surprised if he lead the team in scoring.

 

[beerpaul*]

better offensive centres available... with less defensive liability

period.

Give names. "Less defensive liability...Ha ha.."

 

[beerpaul*]

beerpaul is not 'people'.



He has done so rather extensively in the past..

I didn't say he's better but they are comparable. I know you and most sheep don't...because Joe is 6'4" and Marc is 5'9"...the caveman mentality is hard to rid yourselves of.

 

[SoCalSharkzFan]

I've been lurking around HF for sometime and I haven't posted at all. But it doesn't take much to figure out that unless the guy plays for a Canadien team he is going to get bashed by all you Canadien HOMERS. You guys call Beerpaul out as a homer, but you guys are the biggest hypocrites. Savard has skill and can play with just about anyone. He could play on the 2nd or third lines and be productive. The guy makes things happen. But I guess that is because he plays for the lowly Thrashers. If the Thrash where tearing the league up all you guys would be right the bandwagon.

I didnt know that Colorado and San Jose were in Canada.... Am I missing something?

In fact, what Canadian team's center are you talking about?

Spezza >>>>> Savard

You shouldve stuck to lurking.

 

[God Bless Canada]

His Oshawa Generals won the OHL Title his last year there. I believe he scored the winner in OT. Is it Marc's fault that he hasn't been chosen for team Canada at the Junior or Pro level...even though he's winning scoring titles and putting up tons of points? One player can win a team a Stanley Cup? If these numbskulls at Hockey Canada put Savard on the team, I wouldn't be surprised if he lead the team in scoring.

You're right, he did win the OHL Title in 1997. I remember that now, because Allen used his play in the OHL playoffs and the Memorial Cup to vault himself as a top prospect in the 1998 draft. But one junior league championship won't get him consideration.

It is his fault that he hasn't played much for Canada. If he was good enough to make those teams, he would have made it. In the two years after he was drafted in 1995, he wasn't on Team Canada's WJC team. They won gold in 1996 and 1997 without him. Clearly, they didn't need him.

The bottom line is that since advancing to the NHL, he has not made the playoffs once. Despite that, he hasn't played in the World Championships, either. There certainly would have been opportunities for him to play if he was good enough, or if the Canadian braintrust thought he would fit into the puzzle Canada was building. Canada won two World Championships without him when he could have played.

Savard, to me, is like Cory Stillman. Stillman has been one of the top scoring Canadian-born LWs in the game starting with 2002-03. Stillman was top 10 in NHL scoring in the last NHL season. He has a Cup ring. But in a short tournament, with a series of best-of-ones, you need your absolute best at each position. Stillman isn't one of the top three LWs, or the best option for a checking line. Same goes for Savard at centre.

Numbskulls at Hockey Canada? Funny, I think Gretzky, Lowe and Tambellini are the trio that assembled the 2002 Olympic team and the 2004 World Cup team. Last I checked, Canada won both times with the TEAMS they assembled. If they're numbskulls, then I shudder to think what every other person in the hockey world is.

 

[discostu]

Even though enough has been said on this topic, I'm gonna say it again.

Savard is a very good playmaking centre, in fact, one of the better ones in the league. His point totals are extremely impressive, and, if he was on Team Canada, he would be able to contribute, the question becomes, are there guys that can contribute more.

It comes down to Jason Spezza though. They are both very similar players; playmaking centres, who have enough defensive shortcomings that you would never put them in a checking role. Plus, neither are versatile enough players to move to a wing if needed. It puts both of them in a situation where you have to make them one of your top 3 centres for them to contribute.

Obviously, the depth of Team Canada makes that difficult, but, Spezza's hot start attracted quite a bit of attention, and he's been jockeying for a position on this team. We'll find out in a couple of hours if Spezza did enough to get the job done, but, to do so, he's needed to be among the top scorers in the league to do so. Compared to Savard, he has the following things going for him:

-Has 2 more points in 4 less games. When the main arguement of your case to make the team is statistical achievements, this is pretty significant.
-Many years younger. Taking Spezza over Savard right now has the ability to help Team Canada in future years, as Spezza is highly probable to make Team Canada in the future, while Savard is very unlikely to be there.
-Chemistry with Heatley. Ironic, as Savard has experience as well, but, Spezza's is much more recent, and the two have really played well off each other. It may not seem like that big a deal, but, if Kovalchuk was the Canadian, and Heatley the Russian, I think we would be hearing more Savard talk.

So, if there's maybe barely enough room for one player like Spezza or Savard, there certainly isn't enough for two. Like others have said, this isn't a fantasy team. It's about bring the right skill sets on the team. Savard is good, but, he doesn't bring anything to the table that Spezza doesn't, so, he's almost immediately removed from consideration.

 

[beerpaul*]

You're right, he did win the OHL Title in 1997. I remember that now, because Allen used his play in the OHL playoffs and the Memorial Cup to vault himself as a top prospect in the 1998 draft. But one junior league championship won't get him consideration.

It is his fault that he hasn't played much for Canada. If he was good enough to make those teams, he would have made it. In the two years after he was drafted in 1995, he wasn't on Team Canada's WJC team. They won gold in 1996 and 1997 without him. Clearly, they didn't need him.

The bottom line is that since advancing to the NHL, he has not made the playoffs once. Despite that, he hasn't played in the World Championships, either. There certainly would have been opportunities for him to play if he was good enough, or if the Canadian braintrust thought he would fit into the puzzle Canada was building. Canada won two World Championships without him when he could have played.

Savard, to me, is like Cory Stillman. Stillman has been one of the top scoring Canadian-born LWs in the game starting with 2002-03. Stillman was top 10 in NHL scoring in the last NHL season. He has a Cup ring. But in a short tournament, with a series of best-of-ones, you need your absolute best at each position. Stillman isn't one of the top three LWs, or the best option for a checking line. Same goes for Savard at centre.

Numbskulls at Hockey Canada? Funny, I think Gretzky, Lowe and Tambellini are the trio that assembled the 2002 Olympic team and the 2004 World Cup team. Last I checked, Canada won both times with the TEAMS they assembled. If they're numbskulls, then I shudder to think what every other person in the hockey world is.

Is he not good enough to make this team? Todd Bertuzze sits 47th in league scoring and he's probably going to make it. Because he has such a low point total, it must be because he is a phenom defensively. Plus he's such a classy, well respected player. Kris Draper has about 11 points...he's getting consideration. I know it's not all about points, but surely there's a place on this team for someone who is putting up the kind of points Savard is...with the linemates he's had this year(excluding the last week...in which he played with Kovalchuk).

 

[God Bless Canada]

Is he not good enough to make this team? Todd Bertuzze sits 47th in league scoring and he's probably going to make it. Because he has such a low point total, it must be because he is a phenom defensively. Plus he's such a classy, well respected player. Kris Draper has about 11 points...he's getting consideration. I know it's not all about points, but surely there's a place on this team for someone who is putting up the kind of points Savard is...with the linemates he's had this year(excluding the last week...in which he played with Kovalchuk).

Bertuzzi is a power right winger. When he's on, there isn't anyone like him on the planet. He's bigger, faster and more agile than Savard. Bertuzzi is also blessed with fantastic hands and puckhandling skills. He hits, he hits hard and he has a mean streak. That's why he's up for consideration.

Draper has been one of our best in the last three years. He was a dominant force at the 2003 World Championships. (Don't believe me? Just ask Peter Forsberg). He was part of what was, IMO, the best line at the 2004 World Cup, the DDT line with Doan and Thornton. They scored, they hit, and nobody scored when they were on the ice, even though they often faced the opposition's best line. Draper is a fine defensive player who becomes a lights out defensive player when he wears the Maple Leaf.

If Savard hopes to crack this team, he has to beat one of Sakic, Thornton, Richards or Lecavalier for a spot. That won't happen. Not only that, but there are several other centres (Spezza, Staal, Crosby and Briere) ahead of him on the selection list.

 

[Squeaky]

Is he not good enough to make this team? Todd Bertuzze sits 47th in league scoring and he's probably going to make it. Because he has such a low point total, it must be because he is a phenom defensively. Plus he's such a classy, well respected player. Kris Draper has about 11 points...he's getting consideration. I know it's not all about points, but surely there's a place on this team for someone who is putting up the kind of points Savard is...with the linemates he's had this year(excluding the last week...in which he played with Kovalchuk).

Are Savards linemates any worse than Staals? Staal has two more points (and 10 more goals) in one less game. If you want to make the argument based on stats, Staal wins. If you want to make the argument based on experience, leadership and all-round ability, guys like Sakic are going to win. I've yet to see an argument in Savards favour here that doesn't apply just as well to Staal as it does Savard.

That said, I do think that Savard hasn't been given enough respect by people when they talk about the olympics, the media in particular. I stick him in the same group as guys like Doan, Tanguay, Crosby, Spezza and Staal right now. He should be one of those guys on the bubble who probably won't make the team, but has a shot at the taxi-squad. I don't think that he will, or should make the team. I do think he should at least get mentionned as one of the guys with a shot, or who is just on the outside looking in.

 

[Fravashis]

Savard can stick with a loser franchise like the Thrashers, Team Canada actually wants to win.

excuse me? A loser franchise? This truly makes you sound like a ****ing idiot. How can you call any franchise a "loser franchise", almost everyteam in the NHL is rebuilding to be good, or chasing for a playoff spot. The Thrashers are not a "loser franchise" and I think their top six could go with anyone's in the league. True their defense is more than in need of help, and they havent had their starting goalie for over 2 months, but they are not a loser franchise. I know I am a Thrashers fan, but I dont think I am a homer. I know Savard doesnt deserve to be on Team Canada as their are just better forwards to take his place, but you have no right to call this franchise which has recently pulled itself into the playoff hunt on the back of a AAA goalie a "loser franchise".

 

[beerpaul*]

Are Savards linemates any worse than Staals? Staal has two more points (and 10 more goals) in one less game. If you want to make the argument based on stats, Staal wins. If you want to make the argument based on experience, leadership and all-round ability, guys like Sakic are going to win. I've yet to see an argument in Savards favour here that doesn't apply just as well to Staal as it does Savard.

That said, I do think that Savard hasn't been given enough respect by people when they talk about the olympics, the media in particular. I stick him in the same group as guys like Doan, Tanguay, Crosby, Spezza and Staal right now. He should be one of those guys on the bubble who probably won't make the team, but has a shot at the taxi-squad. I don't think that he will, or should make the team. I do think he should at least get mentionned as one of the guys with a shot, or who is just on the outside looking in.

No question about it, Staal has had an amazing year and is as deserving as Savard to be named to this team.

 

[#37]

Savard is having a great year but will not make Team Canada. That said he would make the Olympic team of ANY other country and if he was on Team Canada he would probably be pretty good. He is just the victim of Canada's depth.

I wouldn't pick him for Team Canada but if he did make the team it is possible he could end up leading the entire tournament in scoring, hell he could lead the NHL in scoring this year. Of course the same could be said of Spezza, or several other players that may not make the team.

Still no need to trash Savard he is having an absolutely Stellar year!

Nice post.

Its a shame that the guy gets little or no credit. From reading this and other threads, it is pretty obvious that this guy is the most under-rated player in the league.

 

[StevenintheATL]

Savard is on a super offensive team...interesting! I could be wrong, but after Savard and Kovalchuk, the balance of forwards are AHL players. Okay, Bondra and Kozlov are NHLers...Bondra past his prime though. 90 to 95% of Atlanta's wins have come from Savard/Kovalchuk or both, taking the team on their back(s). Another well though out comment by someone who sees the Thrashers once a year....when the Leafs play them.

So Marian Hossa, Scott Mellanby, Slava Kozlov, and Ronald Petrovicky (who's on the Slovak Olympic Team btw) should be playing for the Wolves instead of the Thrashers? I was set to defend you in regards to Savard until you posted that garbage.


While I'm disappointed Savy didn't make Team Canada, I realize that Gretzky and company had a huge list of candidates in which to choose from, and there are plenty of folks mad that certain players got overlooked for their respective Olympic teams. Would I have liked to seen Savy playing for Team Canada in Torino? Yes, as I like seeing my team's players playing for their country. Perhaps he'll get selected for Team Canada for the next World Cup or something.

 

[Fravashis]

Savard is on a super offensive team...interesting! I could be wrong, but after Savard and Kovalchuk, the balance of forwards are AHL players. Okay, Bondra and Kozlov are NHLers...Bondra past his prime though. 90 to 95% of Atlanta's wins have come from Savard/Kovalchuk or both, taking the team on their back(s). Another well though out comment by someone who sees the Thrashers once a year....when the Leafs play them.

dude, coming from a thrashers fan shut the **** up. Your embarassing us to the point of no return.

1) No one, except maybe you, is going to argue that Atlanta is an offensive weapon.
2) While Savard and Kovulchuk are big parts of our team, there are 10 other forwards who go out there and play good games.
3) What the hell do you mean AHLers? Do you even watch Thrashers games? Do you even know which teams the Thrashers are? As vespajet said, there is also Hossa who is one of the better offensive players in the league, Mellanby, Kozlov, Petrovicky, Stefan, Vigier and a rookie in Jim Slater that is impressing alot of people. But of course all of those people are AHLers.

Savard is good no doubt, even great, but he is not one of Canada's best 4 centers. He's not even one of our best 13 forwards. Even if he was in the top 13, he wouldnt be any good on a checking line and their are better scorers in the league than Savard ... alot of them. No knock on Savard here, but hes just not Olympic material.

Just shut up, your making yourself look like an idiot and nothing more than a Savard homer

 

[Transported Upstater]

Yeah, Mario Lemieux is no Marc Savard.

LOL, good one Brad

 

[Nihilism]

I'd like to know why the Americans are so concerned with the Canadian Olympic team.

 

[Transported Upstater]

I'd like to know why the Americans are so concerned with the Canadian Olympic team.

What?!?

I'm sorry if I happen to be a hockey fan from the United States who happens to be interested in seeing the roster of the defending gold medalists. If I was only interested in my own team, then I would be just as much of a homer as Chooch during his classic "Steve Shutt was a better player than Valeri Kharlamov" rant.

Who doesn't want to know the competition? Answer: Someone more interested in ethnocentrism than hockey knowledge.



Or are you not a hockey fan, and just a Canadian hockey fan?




No, wait, I'm NOT sorry. I love hockey, whether it is of Canadian, American or European origin. I'll never apologize for that.

 

[beerpaul*]

dude, coming from a thrashers fan shut the **** up. Your embarassing us to the point of no return.

1) No one, except maybe you, is going to argue that Atlanta is an offensive weapon.
2) While Savard and Kovulchuk are big parts of our team, there are 10 other forwards who go out there and play good games.
3) What the hell do you mean AHLers? Do you even watch Thrashers games? Do you even know which teams the Thrashers are? As vespajet said, there is also Hossa who is one of the better offensive players in the league, Mellanby, Kozlov, Petrovicky, Stefan, Vigier and a rookie in Jim Slater that is impressing alot of people. But of course all of those people are AHLers.

Savard is good no doubt, even great, but he is not one of Canada's best 4 centers. He's not even one of our best 13 forwards. Even if he was in the top 13, he wouldnt be any good on a checking line and their are better scorers in the league than Savard ... alot of them. No knock on Savard here, but hes just not Olympic material.

Just shut up, your making yourself look like an idiot and nothing more than a Savard homer

My apologies to Hossa...I completely forgot. Hossa, Savard and Kovalchuk are a country mile above the rest of the forwards on Atlanta. "He's not even one of our best 13 forwards..." Smoke another dude!!

 

[ryz]

My apologies to Hossa...I completely forgot. Hossa, Savard and Kovalchuk are a country mile above the rest of the forwards on Atlanta. "He's not even one of our best 13 forwards..." Smoke another dude!!

I'll have to agree with the other guy here. In terms of a complete game Savard isn't even in the ballpark of Canada's top 13 forwards.

 

[beerpaul*]

I'll have to agree with the other guy here. In terms of a complete game Savard isn't even in the ballpark of Canada's top 13 forwards.

Sheep number 1,017, your comments have been noted. Carry on with your grazing.

 

[sveiglar]

Sheep number 1,017, your comments have been noted. Carry on with your grazing.

(man driving down highway when his cell rings)
Wife: "Honey, it just came on the news that there's a maniac driving down the highway the wrong way! Please be careful coming home!"
Man: "It's not just one, there are hundreds of them!!!"

 

[Skylab]

Sheep number 1,017, your comments have been noted. Carry on with your grazing.

Who is the one beating the dead horse? Who is the one making multiple posts about Savard? Who is the one that keeps posting it even though you know how everyone is going to respond?

There have been multiple, well argued posts about how Savard is good, but not good enough.
but no you're right; the rest of us are idiots for not recognizing that Savard is clearly deserving of being on the olympic team...

 

[Fravashis]

I think this guy is to stubborn to admit he is wrong, but knows he is, so hes has resorted to just aimlessly insulting people and not even really arguing valid points anymore

 

[Rotting Corpse*]

He'd get hurt on the flight to Italy.