Why the snub on Savard for Team Canada?

[RandV]

I'm not saying Savards a bad player or anything like that, just against the idea that he's being 'overlooked' by the team Canada committee, which seems to be the origional intent . He'll likely be underestimated by Canadian posters on a message board, but not team Canada itself. Put him in the same group as a guy like Steve Sullivan.

 

[Sens Rule]

Savard is having a great year but will not make Team Canada. That said he would make the Olympic team of ANY other country and if he was on Team Canada he would probably be pretty good. He is just the victim of Canada's depth.

I wouldn't pick him for Team Canada but if he did make the team it is possible he could end up leading the entire tournament in scoring, hell he could lead the NHL in scoring this year. Of course the same could be said of Spezza, or several other players that may not make the team.

Still no need to trash Savard he is having an absolutely Stellar year!

 

[MacB]

Good post. Savard has no business on team Canada but he is certainly a great player.

The point that we're trying to make is that Savard isn't just a product of his linemates.. Last season he scored at a better PPG clip than Kovalchuk whilst playing on a different line (the gap widens further when you take out all power play points - ie. when they were playing together). His PPG last season was better than the Art Ross winner's for god's sake! This season he's already pulled out to a 10 point lead on Hossa, playing with all sorts of different linemates (he's spent plenty of time away from the big two as well when Hossa and Kovalchuk were on the same line).

Everyone just sees Savard close to Kovalchuk on the leaderboard and assumes that because he's a playmaker he must be leeching off of Kovalchuk. When you tell them he has hardly played with Kovalchuk, they say it must be because of Hossa and Bondra. When you point out that he's miles ahead of them both in points, they change the subject and call him fat, lazy and a cancer in the locker room. I personally don't think he should make Team Canada either, but the ignorance everyone shows towards Savard is just incredible.

 

[exporta]

Sakic
Iginla
Lecavalier
Richards
Sundin
Spezza
Datsyk
Lang
Modano
Crosby
Lemieux (maybe not the player he once was but damn is he creative)
Koivu
Thornton
Marleau
Fedorov
Staal
Demitra
sullivan


and these are just the centers.... wanna get into wingers?

since when has iginla been a centre?

 

[The Bob Cole]

The breakdown on his 31 assists are 19 first assists and 12 2nd assists.

The bigger questions are: Why do people make up false stats on Savard, and are those in charge of selecting the team just as wrong about his accomplishments?

---------------

As to the specialist argument - he's been awesome on the forecheck all year.

Stats don't get you onto a national team. There are other characteristics that they look into.

 

[Maken*]

We really don't need Savard running around taking stupid penalties do we?

He might make any other countries team, but not ours.

 

[DFF]

When exactly has Savard pouted since that fool in Calgary attempted to make him a grinder?

God...do you have to bring back bad memory? where the heck is Greg Gilbert now a day anyway.....him and Button the clown made a deadly duel

The REAL reason Savard is not making the team. He is not among the Top 2 or 3 offensive centers from Canada.

I have no doubt that down the line Savard will be a productive member of Team Canada, this just isn't his time.

You are correct that Savard is not the top 2 or 3 offensive centers from Canada now....but I dont see him to be one in the future neither, considering Spezza, Crosby and Staal

Personally I think Savard is a very good player,just not a the top where he needs to be to be on team Canada

 

[Geese_Howard*]

since when has iginla been a centre?

1 mistake and you bring it up, lol, i was orginally typing wingers and centers but decided just to do centers.

anyways, stand by my case, all those players are more creative then marc "mr creativity" savard

 

[El Wama]

Still.. Savard could be #1 or 2 center in every country.. And the coaches would say: Put Draper against Savard...

Maybe he's no Spezza, Sakic, Thorthon, Lecavalier or Richards, but he's pretty damn good

 

[beerpaul*]

Marc Savard is just on a super offensive team, there a lot of players more creative then him and most of his assits are 2nd assits where the puck just taps his stick

Savard is on a super offensive team...interesting! I could be wrong, but after Savard and Kovalchuk, the balance of forwards are AHL players. Okay, Bondra and Kozlov are NHLers...Bondra past his prime though. 90 to 95% of Atlanta's wins have come from Savard/Kovalchuk or both, taking the team on their back(s). Another well though out comment by someone who sees the Thrashers once a year....when the Leafs play them.

 

[Rocky Saginuts]

Every one of the players you listed, except Richards and Thornton, hasn't got the offensive CREATIVITY...read the word people, that Savard has. Creativity to me is: playmaking ability, reading how an offensive play can occur before it developes, elite vision that most players don't have, passing skill and accuracy.

Who is the beerpaul guy? "Creativity, playmaking, reading, vision" - sounds like he's producing a Broadway musical.

Savard's a good player who might make Team Canada II - that's it.

Now go back to bed with your Thrasher footy-jammies, and have sweet Marc Savard dreams all night.

 

[beerpaul*]

I've been lurking around HF for sometime and I haven't posted at all. But it doesn't take much to figure out that unless the guy plays for a Canadien team he is going to get bashed by all you Canadien HOMERS. You guys call Beerpaul out as a homer, but you guys are the biggest hypocrites. Savard has skill and can play with just about anyone. He could play on the 2nd or third lines and be productive. The guy makes things happen. But I guess that is because he plays for the lowly Thrashers. If the Thrash where tearing the league up all you guys would be right the bandwagon.

Thank you Thrashers. I watched Savard play live, for the Oshawa Generals, and became a big fan of him that way. I'd like players who have played with him(past or present) to talk of his skill level. Often I would see players on the opposing team(or even his own team) shake their head in dissbelieve after an unbelievable pass or goal scored by Marc during his Oshawa days. Most of the comments are coming from people who have watched him play once every 2 years, and because the media/press give him no accolades or coverage, they figure well he's only average.

 

[beerpaul*]

Which is exactly what I said.

The problem I have is with people who say he is only getting points because of the players around him, or that he has a bad attitude.

I agree Savard is not good enough at what he does to make the Canadian team, but at least give the guy his due for putting two great seasons together instead of attacking one of the better offensive C's in the NHL right now.

That's a good one. "...not good enough at what he does to make the Canadian team"

 

[beerpaul*]

You're a joke.

I'm a Sens fan and I don't think Spezza should be on the team.

The difference is that I understand the sport of hockey and don't just simply root for the guys with the logo I like on the front of the jersey.

Let me guess. You would put Yzerman and Lemieux on this squad, right? Over Savard and Spezza. If Steve and Mario were able to play this year.

 

[beerpaul*]

Here are the better centres than Savard (not in order)

1. Thornton
2. Sakic
3. Lecavalier
4. Richards
5. Forsberg
6. Sundin
7. Lemieux
8. Modano
9. Demitra
10. Marleau
11. Jokinen
12. Lang
13. Morisson
14. Koivu
15. Datsyuk
16. Gomez

If you'll notice, there are 7 Canadian centreman AT LEAST better than Savard, and that's why he's not on the team. You don't need just offense, you need to roll balanced lines, and Savard doesn't play defensive, and he's not a gritty player, he's soft as a blanket, but can pass.

Gagne-Thornton-Heatley
Smyth-Sakic-Iginla
Nash-Lecavalier-Bertuzzi
Richards-Marleau-Doan
Draper


Pronger-Jovanovski
Neidermayer-Redden
Regehr-Foote

Brodeur
Luongo

Who the hell is Savard gonna replace on a lineup like this. Stupid argument, he's not even comparable to any of these players, just stop this thread.

If we are talking about the year 2005/06, only Thornton and Forsberg may be better than Savard. The other Canadian centres are about equal, or below Savard. ...Richards, Lecavalier, Sakic.

 

[flambers]

If we are talking about the year 2005/06, only Thornton and Forsberg may be better than Savard. The other Canadian centres are about equal, or below Savard. ...Richards, Lecavalier, Sakic.

I would take lots of Centre over Savard. If we are looking at 2005-2006 guys like Spezza, Staal, Richards, Thornton, Marleau, Sakic, Lecavalier etc are better than Marc Savard.

 

[Epsilon]

Listening to beerpaul, you'd think Savard is the Thrashers' centerpiece and Kovalchuk is just some complementary player or something.

 

[Heat McManus]

If we are talking about the year 2005/06, only Thornton and Forsberg may be better than Savard. The other Canadian centres are about equal, or below Savard. ...Richards, Lecavalier, Sakic.

Nothing against Savard, but I'd much rather have Joe Sakic on my team for a competition like this. Sakic's experience and skill are a combination that Savard cannot match. If Savard keeps playing and producing like this then he might be a lock for the WC team and 08 World Cup (If there is one).

However, IMHO Canada has too much depth and experience at center to insert Savard onto the roster. Could he play there and play well? Yes. Will he? No.

 

[flambers]

Nothing against Savard, but I'd much rather have Joe Sakic on my team for a competition like this. Sakic's experience and skill are a combination that Savard cannot match. If Savard keeps playing and producing like this then he might be a lock for the WC team and 08 World Cup (If there is one).

However, IMHO Canada has too much depth and experience at center to insert Savard onto the roster. Could he play there and play well? Yes. Will he? No.

I find this thread really interesting that people are arguing to send Savard over players like Sakic...wow.............the fact is Savard will never be selected onto Canadian Olympic Roster. Could he play there sure, but he has a bad reputation this will keep him off the team.

 

[Sotnos]

I've been lurking around HF for sometime and I haven't posted at all. But it doesn't take much to figure out that unless the guy plays for a Canadien team he is going to get bashed by all you Canadien HOMERS. You guys call Beerpaul out as a homer, but you guys are the biggest hypocrites. Savard has skill and can play with just about anyone. He could play on the 2nd or third lines and be productive. The guy makes things happen. But I guess that is because he plays for the lowly Thrashers. If the Thrash where tearing the league up all you guys would be right the bandwagon.

Good post, beerpaul!

 

[The Nemesis]

Thank you Thrashers. I watched Savard play live, for the Oshawa Generals, and became a big fan of him that way. I'd like players who have played with him(past or present) to talk of his skill level. Often I would see players on the opposing team(or even his own team) shake their head in dissbelieve after an unbelievable pass or goal scored by Marc during his Oshawa days. Most of the comments are coming from people who have watched him play once every 2 years, and because the media/press give him no accolades or coverage, they figure well he's only average.

Problem: You're going to tell us that we can't judge Marc Savard because we don't watch him enough. What about the players that you are judging to be worse than Savard? Can you say that you've watched them all enough times to accurately measure their talent compared to Savards?

That part aside, Marc Savard doesn't make this team for a couple of very simple reasons that have been explained before.

1) He's a very good player. I'm not going to doubt that purely based on playmaking abilities, Savard probably deserves to be top 10 in the NHL for centres. However, he's a small guy who is not known historically to be a good defensive player. He's a guy who has in the past had his drive and his work ethic questioned. These are not qualities that look good on a player at an international level. And when you factor in these deficiencies into the rest of his game, it doesn't help his case for being at the highest echelon of NHL talent.

2) It's established that he won't be a checking center. It's not in the nature of his game to fill that role. Look at the roster. Joe Thornton is likely going to be a checking center. You can't possibly argue that in any world, even one in which I'm not a Sharks fan and you're not a Thrashers fan, that Savard is better than Thornton. Therefore, if Thornton is better than Marc Savard, and he (Thornton) is being relegated to a checking role, one could conclude that Savard doesn't have a shot at making it.

Marc Savard is a very very good player. He could make most other countries' olympic squads. He could make a Canada 2 squad. He will likely be present at any world championship of hockey occuring in a year when Atlanta doesn't make the playoffs or gets knocked out early. The simple fact is that he won't displace one of the 4 or 5 centers who will make this team as centers (never mind guys like Brad Richards who could slide into an open center spot and then let Canada add another winger)

Stop accusing us of being unfair and accept the fact that Savard won't make it. I want Patrick Marleau to make this team more than anything, but not his spectacular play of late, him being teammates with Thornton now, or even his history of playing internationally is going to help him nab a spot on this team in all likelihood.

 

[God Bless Canada]

Marc Savard is a wonderfully talented hockey player who has done nothing but put up points over the last two years. I've been tracking him since he won two scoring titles in the OHL. (And would have been the first to win it three straight years if not for an injury).

But he doesn't have a track record of success. You can pin the blame on his team, but what has he ever won? And when the season is done, why hasn't he been on Canada's World Championship team? Performance at the Worlds carries a lot of weight in Gretzky's eyes. Just ask Ryan Smyth and (until tomorrow) Eric Brewer.

Also, as pointed out before, there are plenty of other highly skilled centres out there who contribute more than just offence. Sakic is the ultimate player: dangerous as a shooter and a passer, dominant in the defensive zone, and a great leader. Thornton is an awesome combination of size and skill. So is Lecavalier. (Richards will get shifted to the wing, which he has played extensively). Savard? If he's not on your top two lines, he might as well not be playing.

Draper is the shut-down centre. I don't see Savard getting that role. (I'd actually rather see Alyn McCauley in that spot, but he's not eligible because he was left off the 81-player list).

With the exception of Thornton, all of these players have won multiple championships of some form since graduating junior. Thornton was the best player at May's World Championships, and did come out of it with a silver. Thus, he's a lock.

Daniel Briere, another highly-skilled but diminutive centre, has a better shot of making this team. Why? Two world championship gold medals. (2003 and 2004). Of course, Briere won't be part of the team this year, and nor does he deserve to be.

Gretzky has previously said that those who have won as part of the program before will have to play their way off the team. Savard hasn't won anything, and he's 28.

A gifted centre? Yes. I'd give him strong consideration for my B team. But Team Canada 2006 material? No. Not when you look at the multiple giftings and the past track record of those ahead of him.

 

[VanIslander]

better offensive centres available... with less defensive liability

period.

 

[mytor4*]

That's what I was thinking, too. Another mindless homer jumping on some irrelevent buzzword (creativity) because he clearly loses if you use the term that actually matters (offensive production).

Here are some more reasons Marc Savard won't be on Team Canada: They don't want players with love handles, and they don't want WHINY, pouty players who angst over their ice-time. Savard can stick with a loser franchise like the Thrashers, Team Canada actually wants to win.

don't say whiny if your including crosby on team canada. right now crosby has to be the most whiny player in the league and he gets icetime.

 

[Amen evil king]

I find this thread really interesting that people are arguing to send Savard over players like Sakic...wow.............the fact is Savard will never be selected onto Canadian Olympic Roster. Could he play there sure, but he has a bad reputation this will keep him off the team.

beerpaul is not 'people'.

You can't possibly argue that in any world, even one in which I'm not a Sharks fan and you're not a Thrashers fan, that Savard is better than Thornton.

He has done so rather extensively in the past..