Why not do a 32 team world cup?

[wetcoast]

Good luck, even bottom-tier Div. 4 teams have individual pro-level players in their prime.

Pro level is used very loosely here and I bet an all star team of HF board users has some recent pros, high level players who could play in those "pro" leagues.

I knew a guy who was an okay WHL player and then was a star in New Zealand and people forget how few players some of these countries have.

You are either overestimating how good the players are on the 30-32 teams or under rating how good a HF Boards team would be.

Spain the 30th ranked team moved up this year from D2A to D1B and got crushed.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Pro level is used very loosely here and I bet an all star team of HF board users has some recent pros, high level players who could play in those "pro" leagues.

I knew a guy who was an okay WHL player and then was a star in New Zealand and people forget how few players some of these countries have.

You are either overestimating how good the players are on the 30-32 teams or under rating how good a HF Boards team would be.

Spain the 30th ranked team moved up this year from D2A to D1B and got crushed.

One question is how much time on ice and training these low level pros are doing. Reality is a gap is going to be narrowed just by virtue of players that keep on going. The low level top division teams are able to muck around enough just because by the time they are pros in their primes they skate well enough to be able to just play a good defensive structure, can score if an opportunity presents itself, etc. When at the same time if they played as U18 players, they'd likely get beat 15-0.

 

[wetcoast]

One question is how much time on ice and training these low level pros are doing. Reality is a gap is going to be narrowed just by virtue of players that keep on going. The low level top division teams are able to muck around enough just because by the time they are pros in their primes they skate well enough to be able to just play a good defensive structure, can score if an opportunity presents itself, etc. When at the same time if they played as U18 players, they'd likely get beat 15-0.

I just think that the teams in the 15-20 range and the 20-25 then 25-32 range have huge gaps already nevermind if they are going to play a top 10 team so not sold on this 32 team world cup idea and what exactly it would accomplish if anything.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I just think that the teams in the 15-20 range and the 20-25 then 25-32 range have huge gaps already nevermind if they are going to play a top 10 team so not sold on this 32 team world cup idea and what exactly it would accomplish if anything.

Yeah there a bunch of cliffs. 24 is probably the very deepest you can go and that's already going to have a lot of ugliness. More than anything, it's just kind of boring. Everyone knows which 8 teams are the only ones with a remote possibility of doing anything and a clear hierarchy amongst those. Even in a 24 team tournament, that's 16 teams of riff-raff mucking around and competing for positioning.

 

[Albatros]

Pro level is used very loosely here and I bet an all star team of HF board users has some recent pros, high level players who could play in those "pro" leagues.

I knew a guy who was an okay WHL player and then was a star in New Zealand and people forget how few players some of these countries have.

You are either overestimating how good the players are on the 30-32 teams or under rating how good a HF Boards team would be.

Spain the 30th ranked team moved up this year from D2A to D1B and got crushed.

I don't doubt that we could find quite a few participants here that have played at a reasonably high level, but that would likely mostly be gentlemen of certain age now rather than 20-somethings.

 

[Juniorhockeyguru]

As we've seen on D 2, could have Trinidad-Tobago, and the ever powerful Iceland.

 

[Maverick41]

Pro level is used very loosely here and I bet an all star team of HF board users has some recent pros, high level players who could play in those "pro" leagues.

I knew a guy who was an okay WHL player and then was a star in New Zealand and people forget how few players some of these countries have.

You are either overestimating how good the players are on the 30-32 teams or under rating how good a HF Boards team would be.

Spain the 30th ranked team moved up this year from D2A to D1B and got crushed.

I get what you mean and I agree to a certain point, but Spain, despite "getting crushed" avoided relegation, by beating the Netherlands and taking Estonia to OT.
They got blown out by Ukraine and by China, who in turn got blown out by Ukraine and only finished 4th one spot ahead of Spain.

You have far more parity across the board than only a few years ago when it really were always the same teams going up and down each year. Some of it is the result of Russia and Belarus missing from the tournaments which had ripple effect all the way down.
If or when they return, I am very curious how it will impact the lower tournaments.

As for this hypothetical "HF All Star Team", I have no idea how they would fare against a team ranked around 30th in the world. But unless you can put together a team of at least 15 skaters that are not too far removed from their prime and still playing regularly, I don't think I would like their chances. Now once you get to the Div 2a and 2b level, I would like the chances of an HF boards team, a lot more.

 

[wetcoast]

I get what you mean and I agree to a certain point, but Spain, despite "getting crushed" avoided relegation, by beating the Netherlands and taking Estonia to OT.
They got blown out by Ukraine and by China, who in turn got blown out by Ukraine and only finished 4th one spot ahead of Spain.

Still my point is that teams ranked in this group wouldn't be able to having with the next set of 6-8 teams above them who in turn can't hang with the next set of 6-8 above them.

You have far more parity across the board than only a few years ago when it really were always the same teams going up and down each year. Some of it is the result of Russia and Belarus missing from the tournaments which had ripple effect all the way down.
If or when they return, I am very curious how it will impact the lower tournaments.

Maybe it's getting a bit better but there is still a huge gap between 17-32 and even the 10-16 teams.

As for this hypothetical "HF All Star Team", I have no idea how they would fare against a team ranked around 30th in the world. But unless you can put together a team of at least 15 skaters that are not too far removed from their prime and still playing regularly, I don't think I would like their chances. Now once you get to the Div 2a and 2b level, I would like the chances of an HF boards team, a lot more.

Of course they would have the benefit of training but elite beer league players often include recent pros and elite in one or 2 things, like skating shooting but not both and the guys on say Spain would be in tough against them.

 

[Albatros]

Two years ago Spain held their own in a competitive game against a team consisting exclusively of KHL pros, including several with NHL experience.

 

[wetcoast]

Two years ago Spain held their own in a competitive game against a team consisting exclusively of KHL pros, including several with NHL experience.

Sounds like an exhibition game that no one from one side was interested in most likely.

Just to note the next part isn't directed at you in any way.

I remember during the first lockout Gretzky and some other star players didn't kill some minor league team, if HF b/oards were around some clowns would have used that game as proof as something no doubt.

 

[BLNY]

Why doesn't hockey do a 32 team world cup? I know there will be a huge difference in parity but they would be more interest and would grow the sport imo.

Where would you fit it in?

Soccer/football doesn't play an 82 game season. There's significantly more space in a calendar to fit in such a tournament.

We have the Olympics every 4 years. A World Championship every year. I think international play is well covered.

 

[Albatros]

Sounds like an exhibition game that no one from one side was interested in most likely.

Eh? World Championship games are the premier events for these teams. While Kunlun may not be the most successful project in the history of hockey, they absolutely wouldn't be trailing against Team HFBoards most of the game. More likely win by comfortable double digits.

 

[MeHateHe]

Having skimmed through this thread, I'm struggling to understand how this is different, functionally, from how the IIHF/IOC conducts the Oympic qualifying and then the Olympic tournament. The top eight teams are guaranteed berths and everyone else qualifyies, over a longer period to be sure, but that's essentially what happens.

It's a not-terrible process that occasionally but not frequently results in upsets and teams exceeding themselves to reach the big dance. It gives the minnows a chance to play against higher quality competition, and gives the lower-mid range teams a chance to get a sniff at playing at least a few of the elite-level teams. There's little-to-no benefit to the top tier (Canada, Sweden, et al) but those aren't the nations that benefit from anything other than competition against them top 8. In fact, those teams are most to lose by playing in this format, because (like Sweden losing to Belarus in 2002, for example) they risk being embarrassed by lesser lights. But heavy is the head that wears the crown.

Nonetheless, what are we talking about with this proposal?

 

[WarriorofTime]

Nonetheless, what are we talking about with this proposal?

A 32-Team World Cup

 

[wetcoast]

Eh? World Championship games are the premier events for these teams. While Kunlun may not be the most successful project in the history of hockey, they absolutely wouldn't be trailing against Team HFBoards most of the game. More likely win by comfortable double digits.

I'm not familiar with the game you are talking about and referenced another game as well, sometimes the details matter.

In theory I'm talking about any teams level of competitiveness overall not an exception.

 

[Albatros]

 

[GrumpyKoala]

They should do a 32 any non nhl team tournament. Best of 3

Khl Shl Ahl etc etc.
That something worth watching

 

[wetcoast]

Spain lost 4-1 to a team that didn't make the playoffs in the KHL?

 

[Albatros]

Spain lost 4-1 to a team that didn't make the playoffs in the KHL?

And Team HFBoards would lose by 41 or so.

 

[wetcoast]

And Team HFBoards would lose by 41 or so.

To a spanish team, I don't think so.

Also I think that you proably ahve some pretty good lurkers here if they ahd the time and resources to trin like Spain or Kulan they could compete.

The point is that when you go down that low in terms of team quality you can't compete with the top 10 teams at all really.

 

[abj]

World Cup? World Championship? 24 teams are considerably bigger vibe.

 

[Albatros]

To a spanish team, I don't think so.

Also I think that you proably ahve some pretty good lurkers here if they ahd the time and resources to trin like Spain or Kulan they could compete.

The point is that when you go down that low in terms of team quality you can't compete with the top 10 teams at all really.

Sure, but it's still going to be Canada >>>>> Spain >>>>> HFBoards. These are still the best active players in semi-pro leagues and not geezers that were average Junior A players years ago, maybe someone made it to the major juniors but regardless now skate once a week in the local beer league. With luck a couple of kids from USports or ACHA like the near-bottom Mexican team has it. Of course you're entitled to be more optimistic about the users here, but that's what I've registered at best.

 

[wetcoast]

Sure, but it's still going to be Canada >>>>> Spain >>>>> HFBoards. These are still the best active players in semi-pro leagues and not geezers that were average Junior A players years ago, maybe someone made it to the major juniors but regardless now skate once a week in the local beer league. With luck a couple of kids from USports or ACHA like the near-bottom Mexican team has it. Of course you're entitled to be more optimistic about the users here, but that's what I've registered at best.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter as no one is going to pony up for the money to organize such a team.

My point was that even a 16 team tournament will have teams that can't really compete.

 

[Albatros]

Even the Canada Cup with only six teams always featured at least one that wasn't at all competitive. I'm not sure we ever saw a tournament at this level where all teams managed to be that. Potentially the 2025 Face-Off could be the first, but that format will likely also leave many fans unsatisfied.

Personally I think if it's pros against pros then that's all good whatever the number, it would have been a loss if I didn't get to see Anže Kopitar with Slovenia.

 

[abj]

A 32-Team World Cup

Ye mean men's World Cup or men's World Championship????

A 24-Team cup lets much correct.