Why isn't Butch Goring in the HHOF

[kmad]

I don't agree that the Lady Byng should add to a player's HoF chances.

 

[Killion]

I don't agree that the Lady Byng should add to a player's HoF chances.

Why not? Its a character issue, that the guy was a "gentlemanly player" on & off the ice.

 

[kmad]

Why not? Its a character issue, that the guy was a "gentlemanly player" on & off the ice.

Definitely would help a guy get into the Character Hall of Fame

 

[MS]

Definitely would help a guy get into the Character Hall of Fame

Character and sportsmanship are literally two of the main attributes use as the basis for selection :

Playing ability, sportsmanship, character and contributions to his or her team or teams and to the game of hockey in general.

https://www.hhof.com/htmlinduct/indelection.shtml

This is one of the reasons some of us were so ticked off by the election of borderline candidates/bad citizens like Ciccarelli and Anderson.

 

[sr edler]

Any comments on why he played with such a small stick?

Or am I fooled by my own eyes?

 

[reckoning]

It's not like he was a passenger who happened to end up on a great team; he was an integral part of it. He was the third-best forward on a dynasty team. As well as being one of the top two-way centres in the game throughout most of the 70s and early-80s.

I'm not sure he deserves to be in Hall, but he was better than some players who have been inducted over the last few years (hi Dino and Phil).

If it came down to a choice between Goring and Andreychuk, Goring would easily get my vote.

 

[Killion]

Any comments on why he played with such a small stick?

Or am I fooled by my own eyes?

Does appear to be cut short huh? Im not entirely sure in Gorings case without some research however it was common during his era of play (before & after) for Centers to use a shorter stick for Face-Off's, swapping it back on the fly for a regular, longer twig.... and just what the Hell are those on his feet? Unbelievable. Look like theyve been through WW2. Stripped from a homeless persons corpse who passed away on a park bench.

It's not like he was a passenger who happened to end up on a great team; he was an integral part of it. He was the third-best forward on a dynasty team. As well as being one of the top two-way centres in the game throughout most of the 70s and early-80s.

I'm not sure he deserves to be in Hall, but he was better than some players who have been inducted over the last few years (hi Dino and Phil).

If it came down to a choice between Goring and Andreychuk, Goring would easily get my vote.

Agreed. He was a critical, key player to the Islanders successes, the players and a Dynasty that just dont/doesnt get the respect they deserves. Forgotten in many ways, sandwiched as it was between the more glamorous Montreal Canadiens & Edmonton Oilers. I'd have no problem whatsoever with his induction into the HHOF. There are others already in who in some ways carbon copies of Butch, some not even his equal.

 

[Big Phil]

He certainly is a guy you wish could get in. In a way, he's like John Tonelli that way. Lots of respect for those players and when you are part of a team that goes deep in the postseason year after year you are in the consciousness of the hockey world. That's a good thing and it beats first round exits. Butch Goring was in the back of our minds for many springs.

The problem is, he's probably better than Dick Duff. He's likely similar to Bob Pulford. Like it or not, these are guys who are a lightning rod of controversy when it comes to the HHOF. I love Goring, but it doesn't serve the HHOF well to add more of those names in there.

 

[cupcrazyman]

this is what happens when good players are on Dynasty rosters.

 

[Big Phil]

this is what happens when good players are on Dynasty rosters.

I think though it is widely recognized that he was considered to be the "final piece" on that team. A center to play behind Trottier to take the pressure off of him a bit. It doesn't mean he was a great player, it just means he was a very good one. Other missing pieces that come to mind such as Rob Blake, Brendan Shanahan and Larry Murphy did other things in their career before they were traded to their championship team (for Murphy this was his second team that won) and were definitely better at their position than Goring. But Goring is still recognized as that guy for the Islanders. Doesn't mean he should be in the HHOF of course, but still.

 

[Kosher Halal]

Butch Goring most certainly belongs in the Hockey Hall of Fame

• MJHL Hockey Ability and Sportsmanship Award winner (1967)
• Turnbull Cup (MJHL championship) (1969)
• Calder Cup (AHL championship) (1971)
• Bill Masterton Trophy winner (1978)
• Lady Byng Trophy winner (1978)
• Played in NHL All-Star Game (1980)
• Conn Smythe Trophy winner (1981)
• Stanley Cup champion (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)
• Played in the Canada Cup Tournament for Team Canada (1981)
• Jersey number 91 retired by the New York Islanders organization (2020)

There are currently 7 members of the 1980s New York Islanders Stanley Cup dynasty in the Hockey Hall of Fame - general manager Bill Torrey (1995), head coach Al Arbour (1996), Mike Bossy (1991), Denis Potvin (1991), Billy Smith (1993), Bryan Trottier (1997), and Clark Gilles (2002).

The recent death of Mike Bossy could get one of the four remaining players from the 1980s New York Islanders dynasty, who are highly qualified, to finally be inducted in 2022 or 2023. Those players are Butch Goring, John Tonelli, Bob Nystrom, and Brent Sutter. The most qualified is Butch Goring, who along with his 4 Stanley Cup rings, also won the Bill Masterton Trophy, the Lady Byng Trophy, and the Conn Smythe Trophy. Brent Sutter also has 3 Canada Cup World Titles.

 

[quietbruinfan]

Not that he should be in, but I'll make the argument.

1) The easiest justification is that he's a hands-down better player than Dick Duff, who had an fairly similar career 10 years earlier and somehow got in. Goring is vastly superior both offensively and defensively to Duff, with a similar playoff track record.

2) When Goring retired, he was the NHL all-time leader in SHG, until it was broken shortly thereafter by Gretzky. He was a high-end defensive forward, who carried more value than similar or higher-producing forwards who didn't have his defensive acumen.

3) In the 5-year period from 1975-1980, Goring is 12th in overall NHL scoring. The top 11 are all in the HHOF, and so is the 13th place guy. His offensive peak is highly underrated, and he's one of the best offensive players of his era not in the HHOF.

4) He won 3 awards during his career - the Conn Smythe, the Masterton, and the Lady Byng. The last two aren't 'glamour' awards but still add to his resume.

5) He was obviously a major part of a dynasty, and is generally considered to be the player that put them 'over the top'. His playoff resume is outstanding, even in LA where he scored 2 OT goals in the 1976 playoffs and had 12 points in 9 games in 1977.

__________


Now, of course he probably shouldn't be in. But he's a lot closer than he's generally given credit for. He was probably a better player with a better overall career than Steve Shutt, but he didn't have the one big offensive season that Shutt did, or play a position where he could rack up post-season All-Star selections.

I think that because he evolved into more of a checker during his more famous time with the Islanders, people forget how good he was offensively with the Kings in the late 1970s, finishing just outside the top-10 in league scoring on multiple occasions, a feat more impressive because he was usually the #2 center behind Marcel Dionne (although they played together on the PP).

Spot on. Goring is hall of very good, but you can make a good case-as you just did. He was by far the number one player on Kings teams in the mid 70s that were actually good also. I know Dionne got there in 75, but I was never a fan. Goring always scared me much more. Edit Dionne was 75. However, the rest still goes.

 

[HolyGhost]

Comments ?

you are joking right?

 

[HolyGhost]

Butch Goring most certainly belongs in the Hockey Hall of Fame

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• Lady Byng Trophy winner (1978)
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• Conn Smythe Trophy winner (1981)
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There are currently 7 members of the 1980s New York Islanders Stanley Cup dynasty in the Hockey Hall of Fame - general manager Bill Torrey (1995), head coach Al Arbour (1996), Mike Bossy (1991), Denis Potvin (1991), Billy Smith (1993), Bryan Trottier (1997), and Clark Gilles (2002).

The recent death of Mike Bossy could get one of the four remaining players from the 1980s New York Islanders dynasty, who are highly qualified, to finally be inducted in 2022 or 2023. Those players are Butch Goring, John Tonelli, Bob Nystrom, and Brent Sutter. The most qualified is Butch Goring, who along with his 4 Stanley Cup rings, also won the Bill Masterton Trophy, the Lady Byng Trophy, and the Conn Smythe Trophy. Brent Sutter also has 3 Canada Cup World Titles.

okay lets remove the stuff that does not matter or are team things

Goring played on some bad teams in the LA and yes, that hurts him. How bad were the kings? Many people forget he was a king. He is more known for being a 3rd liner on the NYI dynasty. If he goes in then players like Craig Mactavish have a case for getting into the hall

 

[Hockeyholic]

Players making debut on 2022 HHOF Ballot:

Sedin twins
Zetterberg
Kunitz
Luongo
Rick Nash
Vanek
Phaneuf

 

[Buffalowing1988]

Butch Goring was an absolute animal with his...6 points in 21 playoff games in 84 and his...12 points in 20 playoff games the year before that.

But lemme tell ya about his real impact, in 82 he had...11 points in 19 playoff games.

Shit...let's dig deeper.

He averaged around 40 points/season at the highest scoring peak in league history, but that's not important, he was a swell defensive player, too!

He once finished as high as 10th on the Selke voting records! He never got better than that, but you sure gotta appreciate the effort.




Butch Goring was an important member of a team that had at least 5 better players than him at any given time. Putting him in just opens the floodgates.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Butch Goring was an absolute animal with his...6 points in 21 playoff games in 84 and his...12 points in 20 playoff games the year before that.

But lemme tell ya about his real impact, in 82 he had...11 points in 19 playoff games.

Shit...let's dig deeper.

He averaged around 40 points/season at the highest scoring peak in league history, but that's not important, he was a swell defensive player, too!

He once finished as high as 10th on the Selke voting records! He never got better than that, but you sure gotta appreciate the effort.




Butch Goring was an important member of a team that had at least 5 better players than him at any given time. Putting him in just opens the floodgates.

It's hard to tell if you're joking or aggressively ignorant. Goring doesn't deserve the HOF, but he also doesn't deserve to be denigrated in order to fit your awful take.

 

[Staniowski]

Goring was an excellent hockey player, very good both offensively and defensively....very tenacious and one of the most tireless skaters ever. Pretty skilled, smart, relentless.

A good scorer in his 20s, and a very important player for the Islanders....sometimes close to their best player for periods of time.

Played well in Canada Cup '81, and probably could have been a good player in '76 too.

He was good enough for the Hall of Fame....but, I don't think he has much of a chance now, even much less so than Lowe and Carbonneau.

 

[Voight]

Butch Goring most certainly belongs in the Hockey Hall of Fame

• MJHL Hockey Ability and Sportsmanship Award winner (1967)
• Turnbull Cup (MJHL championship) (1969)
• Calder Cup (AHL championship) (1971)
• Bill Masterton Trophy winner (1978)
• Lady Byng Trophy winner (1978)
• Played in NHL All-Star Game (1980)
• Conn Smythe Trophy winner (1981)
• Stanley Cup champion (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)
• Played in the Canada Cup Tournament for Team Canada (1981)
• Jersey number 91 retired by the New York Islanders organization (2020)

There are currently 7 members of the 1980s New York Islanders Stanley Cup dynasty in the Hockey Hall of Fame - general manager Bill Torrey (1995), head coach Al Arbour (1996), Mike Bossy (1991), Denis Potvin (1991), Billy Smith (1993), Bryan Trottier (1997), and Clark Gilles (2002).

The recent death of Mike Bossy could get one of the four remaining players from the 1980s New York Islanders dynasty, who are highly qualified, to finally be inducted in 2022 or 2023. Those players are Butch Goring, John Tonelli, Bob Nystrom, and Brent Sutter. The most qualified is Butch Goring, who along with his 4 Stanley Cup rings, also won the Bill Masterton Trophy, the Lady Byng Trophy, and the Conn Smythe Trophy. Brent Sutter also has 3 Canada Cup World Titles.

Absolutely not.

I guess I could see a case for Goring as @MS outlined above.

Tonelli, Nystrom and Sutter are not qualified at all.

 

[Kosher Halal]

Butch Goring
16 NHL Seasons
1969-1985
Los Angeles Kings
New York Islanders
Boston Bruins
Regular Season
1107 Games Played
375 Goals
513 Assists
888 Points
102 Penalty Minutes
Playoffs
134 Games Played
38 Goals
50 Assists
88 Points
32 Penalty Minutes

 

[Big Phil]

It is incredible that a guy with his tenacity and forechecking only had 102 PIM. That is the best reason to give someone the Lady Byng, in fact it used to be the reason. A guy who isn't a wimp and plays the game hard, but doesn't take penalties.

I am thinking Tonelli has every bit of a case to go in compared to Goring. But I think both shouldn't be there.

 

[reckoning]

A fun story about Goring is that he would often wear the same clothes several days in a row. In Kelly Hrudey's book he said that when they went on a road trip, Goring would only bring one shirt and a sports jacket. After a few days he'd wear the shirt inside out to hide any stains.

 

[hacksaw7]

An outstanding player and the perfect addition to that Islander franchise. He could score, played terrific defensively and killed penalties. An inspiring and gutsy leader for those Isles. However not once did I look at him and think Hall of Fame. Played a lot in the firewagon era and never hit 90 pts or 40 goals.

Really any number of guys could've stepped in and been a Goring type for NYI. Would it have been EXACTLY the same?...no, but what he did and compiled throughout his career is nothing to merit Hall of Fame induction. I know Goring mentioned this himself on air...but I would take Patrik Elias in the Hall and over BG now and always. Goring was that 2nd tier scorers that stepped up behind the Trots and Bossys of the world. Just because great franchises have these runs doesnt mean every Goring type thay they have deserves to be in the Hall. I'm not putting Patrick Sharp in, or Palat.

fwiw Carbonneau should be in as he was absolutely elite in his role. 3 Selke's and 5 other top ten in Selke voting finishes. Plus he had offense to go with his game.

Lowe absolutely not, but that's the Edmonton old boys club pulling some strings there

 

[Buffalowing1988]

It's hard to tell if you're joking or aggressively ignorant. Goring doesn't deserve the HOF, but he also doesn't deserve to be denigrated in order to fit your awful take.

If he's being placed on a platform then he deserves to be denigrated if the stats back it up. Would love a guy like him on any team I rooted for but you're not supporting his case, you're just getting upset.

Tell me why he should be held in a different light and I will eat crow because, again, as I said in my original post, he's a fine player. He's just nothing to write home about on a historical level.

 

[Bowski]