Why is London always good?

[krt88]

I was wonder what's the secret to what seems like non stop success of the London Knights?

It's hard to accurately follow the CHL from NC. Miss the days when I lived just across the boarder in NY and could drive up to catch a few OHL games.

Thanks for the input

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[Fixed to Ruin]

They are very good at "recruiting"

 

[Larry44]

I was wonder what's the secret to what seems like non stop success of the London Knights?

It's hard to accurately follow the CHL from NC. Miss the days when I lived just across the boarder in NY and could drive up to catch a few OHL games.

Thanks for the input

The organization has lots of money to spend on recruiting, has the best facilities and is highly respected. They attract top US college players, pick great Imports, and draft incredibly well in Ontario. Great coaching, best of everything, who wouldn't want to live/play there?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

same way Portland was always so good

and once you dig a little, all heck breaks loose.

but OHL wont dig... London makes league too much cash

WHL had to dig though cause of what transpired and the WHL only fined them for a quarter of the things they did and looked the other way on the rest. Was a huge fine/penalty, but should have been extremely more

 

[ecraigs]

The impact of good coaching cannot be understated. Players who would normally not have reported will come and play for a year, expecting a boost into the pros. Personally, my opinion has always been that Dale Hunter was one of the dirtiest players ever in the NHL, perhaps second only to Eddie Shore. That being said, his team performs at high speed and their player scouting and selection is impeccable. There are elements which are questionable, such as the Max Domi situation.

I think that the comment that the League does want to interfere is quite accurate. After they neutered their own response to Windsor, I can't see any change in that situation.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

The impact of good coaching cannot be understated. Players who would normally not have reported will come and play for a year, expecting a boost into the pros. Personally, my opinion has always been that Dale Hunter was one of the dirtiest players ever in the NHL, perhaps second only to Eddie Shore. That being said, his team performs at high speed and their player scouting and selection is impeccable. There are elements which are questionable, such as the Max Domi situation.

I think that the comment that the League does want to interfere is quite accurate. After they neutered their own response to Windsor, I can't see any change in that situation.

something I wanted to touch on too is the bolded...one of the infractions that Portland was hit with was they very strangely somehow got some players to come play 1 season for them and they promised to pay for 4 years of schooling in return. Normally kids get 1 years of schooling paid for at a Canadian university for each year they play(example, a kid plays 4 years, he gets 4 years paid schooling)... so Portland would get a kid to come for a year and pay for 4 years. Other teams have been rumored of it too

also yes, leagues tend to look away for certain potential infractions with teams. If they can get commitment's from certain stars that were apparently 100% sure they were going to NCAA to come to CHL, they are happy

 

[Savi]

How is paying for a kid's education a bad thing?

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

How is paying for a kid's education a bad thing?

completely against the rules that GM's/owners are well aware of. The league gives every kid a year of paid schooling for every year they play. Anything else added to that by the team is intentially breaking rules

So is paying for cell phones, vehicles, flights for families to visit, submitting receipts for all expenses, paying players monthly/lump sum up front to play for them etc etc.. things like that

 

[Finster8]

One of the reassons as mentioned is the coaching what the difference is DH always plays his best players utulizing OAer's unique abilities. While developing his younger players elsewhere until year 2 for example Tkachuk. Nobody gets their time until they earn it.This year Juolevi and Nattinen

 

[Rocko604]

They are very good at "recruiting"

This.

same way Portland was always so good

and once you dig a little, all heck breaks loose.

but OHL wont dig... London makes league too much cash

WHL had to dig though cause of what transpired and the WHL only fined them for a quarter of the things they did and looked the other way on the rest. Was a huge fine/penalty, but should have been extremely more

And this.

They cheat, plain and simple, but Branch won't touch them.

 

[EvenSteven]

This.



And this.

They cheat, plain and simple, but Branch won't touch them.

I don't doubt that some, if not all, of this is true. But what they do have on other "have" teams in the OHL like Kitchener, Windsor, etc, is that they have the best building in the OHL. Since that building brings in huge $$$, the team has the financial resources to have the best scouts and enough of these scouts to see many more games than most other teams so that when they take a player in the 8th or 9th round, chances are they've seen that player enough times to be sure that said player has a better chance to become an asset going forward.

They have a staff/ownership of ex-NHLers who have huge connections with NHL teams which is big when such teams own the rights to players they've drafted and hope to recruit. These ex-NHLers also have huge connections with agents and probably better rapport than other OHL teams. This is big because it is the agents who direct their import prospects to report to the teams that will best chance at development. The import draft is pretty much cooked. Many of the players know where they're going before they're picked. An agent will put it out there that a certain player will only go to a certain team. The rest is history.

Another thing London has on most other OHL teams: They own the team and aren't going anywhere. Aside from high end education, one of the biggest attractions that NCAA schools have in recruiting players is that they can sell the players on the fact that Jeff Jackson, Red Berenson, etc etc, will be your coach for your entire time as an NCAA hockey player. Most of the high end NCAA schools have stability in their coaches. You can commit to a school knowing that you won't have to wonder who your coach will be from one year to the next. Dale Hunter will be coaching London on an indefinite basis. Basil isn't going anywhere. Neither is Mark despite his job with the Leafs. The man can walk and chew gum at the same time.

A team like Kitchener on the other hand, despite being a "have" team, has had a continuous coaching carousel outside of the DeBoer (7 years) and Spott (5 years) stints since the early 90's. Quick example: a player like Kitchener's Darby Llewellyn. If he is utilized as an OA for the upcoming year, he will be coached by his fourth different coach in 5 years in Kitchener. As much a "have" team as Kitchener is, they can't recruit players and guarantee them that they'll be coached by the same coach for their entire time with the team, but London can, and it matters!

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

One of these days more teams will be exposed. Not saying it will be London forsure but there will be more. In Portland it all started by when a kid was traded and when with his new team he asked how it works for submitting receipts and getting all his stuff paid for and get items bought for him. He didn't know any better cause its what he was used to for a couple years and assumed it was normal. So ofcourse this team contacted the league and the league was forced to act. It was going on for years in Portland and league would always look the other way. But this time the league couldn't ignore it

One of these days more teams will be exposed. Not saying it will be London forsure but there will be more. In Portland it all started by when a kid was traded and when with his new team he asked how it works for submitting receipts and getting all his stuff paid for and get items bought for him. He didn't know any better cause its what he was used to for a couple years and assumed it was normal. So ofcourse this team contacted the league and the league was forced to act. It was going on for years in Portland and league would always look the other way. But this time the league couldn't ignore it

It goes on everywhere though. I knew of many players that were paid a very big lump sum to play on top junior A teams and then given money monthly also.

Happens everywhere and alot of the top teams that make their leagues a ton of money are the culprits. Been goin on for years and it will keep happening

 

[Rocko604]

I don't doubt that some, if not all, of this is true. But what they do have on other "have" teams in the OHL like Kitchener, Windsor, etc, is that they have the best building in the OHL. Since that building brings in huge $$$, the team has the financial resources to have the best scouts and enough of these scouts to see many more games than most other teams so that when they take a player in the 8th or 9th round, chances are they've seen that player enough times to be sure that said player has a better chance to become an asset going forward.

They have a staff/ownership of ex-NHLers who have huge connections with NHL teams which is big when such teams own the rights to players they've drafted and hope to recruit. These ex-NHLers also have huge connections with agents and probably better rapport than other OHL teams. This is big because it is the agents who direct their import prospects to report to the teams that will best chance at development. The import draft is pretty much cooked. Many of the players know where they're going before they're picked. An agent will put it out there that a certain player will only go to a certain team. The rest is history.

Another thing London has on most other OHL teams: They own the team and aren't going anywhere. Aside from high end education, one of the biggest attractions that NCAA schools have in recruiting players is that they can sell the players on the fact that Jeff Jackson, Red Berenson, etc etc, will be your coach for your entire time as an NCAA hockey player. Most of the high end NCAA schools have stability in their coaches. You can commit to a school knowing that you won't have to wonder who your coach will be from one year to the next. Dale Hunter will be coaching London on an indefinite basis. Basil isn't going anywhere. Neither is Mark despite his job with the Leafs. The man can walk and chew gum at the same time.

A team like Kitchener on the other hand, despite being a "have" team, has had a continuous coaching carousel outside of the DeBoer (7 years) and Spott (5 years) stints since the early 90's. Quick example: a player like Kitchener's Darby Llewellyn. If he is utilized as an OA for the upcoming year, he will be coached by his fourth different coach in 5 years in Kitchener. As much a "have" team as Kitchener is, they can't recruit players and guarantee them that they'll be coached by the same coach for their entire time with the team, but London can, and it matters!

You make a lot of valid points. Coaching is definitely a big factor, especially when you have someone like Hunter at the helm. Scouting is obviously a huge factor too. That's been the outright downfall of the Vancouver Giants in the Dub (a team you could have easily accused of the same things 6-8 years ago) as owner Ron Toigo and ex-GM Scott Bonner basically started hiring their friends to do the scouting and the team completely nose-dived into one of the worst run franchises in the CHL. We'll see how new-GM Glen Hanlon fixes this mess while working with an owner who still wants to do things his way.

But I digress...

Let's not forget that Windsor was penalized for this stuff not too long ago so it's not like the OHL won't go after their have teams. Just not this have team.

 

[stickhandle]

good ownership and lots of cash

 

[EvenSteven]

Let's not forget that Windsor was penalized for this stuff not too long ago so it's not like the OHL won't go after their have teams. Just not this have team.

I don't think the OHL will go after any have teams and wouldn't have penalized Windsor either except they had to since rumors are out there that a former player blew the whistle on them. Nobody ever officially named who the player was who came forward. People on these boards always name Cam Fowler as the probable culprit. But what would he have complained about?

IMO, I believe the player was Jack Campbell for the Spits dealing him to, or forcing a deal to the Soo. But no matter.

I don't believe that the message sent by the OHL in penalizing Windsor was don't break the rules. It was more likely break the rules all you want to bring the best players into the league, but treat these players and their families with kid gloves to keep them from wanting to blow the whistle on you.

 

[Otto]

They have a staff/ownership of ex-NHLers who have huge connections with NHL teams which is big when such teams own the rights to players they've drafted and hope to recruit. These ex-NHLers also have huge connections with agents and probably better rapport than other OHL teams. This is big because it is the agents who direct their import prospects to report to the teams that will best chance at development. The import draft is pretty much cooked. Many of the players know where they're going before they're picked. An agent will put it out there that a certain player will only go to a certain team. The rest is history.

On top of this, the team keeps a strong connection not only with alumni but also local NHL'ers. Corey Perry, Dave Bolland, and Drew Doughty to name a few live in London during the off season and are present at Knights training camp. So the players coming in get some pretty good mentoring from some pretty big name players

 

[bert]

This.



And this.

They cheat, plain and simple, but Branch won't touch them.

Maybe after these results they will. I cant imagine anyone will bother watching anymore of the memorial cup outside of leaf/london fans.

I certainly have lost all interest. The entire OHL playoffs were aweful, not good for the league.

Whats the point of following any team if you know that London is just paying players and are in a league of their own. No chance to ever win no motivation to follow it.

 

[Savi]

Whats the point of following any team if you know that London is just paying players

But you really don't know, do you?

 

[Tigers1992]

Whats the point of following any team if you know that London is just paying players and are in a league of their own. No chance to ever win no motivation to follow it.

The Knights are paying players? Some of our guys must be back owed fees then

I get the psychological need for fans to justify why their team lost, 'we could have made the memorial cup if it wasn't for those meddling Knights! Dang it, they pay players@#$#@#!!!' but you KNOW that? You know something that I don't then.

The main reason that London is great, they draft US players before anyone else does, although that seems to have changed over the past few years, Saginaw and Sarnia drafted more Impact US skaters this season then London. Took a while for the OHL to catch on, but they seem to have. They also got incredibly lucky with Marner, I think we all knew he'd be a talented player, this good? He's proved alot of people wrong.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

The Knights are paying players? Some of our guys must be back owed fees then

I get the psychological need for fans to justify why their team lost, 'we could have made the memorial cup if it wasn't for those meddling Knights! Dang it, they pay players@#$#@#!!!' but you KNOW that? You know something that I don't then.

The main reason that London is great, they draft US players before anyone else does, although that seems to have changed over the past few years, Saginaw and Sarnia drafted more Impact US skaters this season then London. Took a while for the OHL to catch on, but they seem to have.

Teams don't draft players that in no circumstances will not commit to playing for their organization.

I'll take a non-london example. Angelo Esposito

Esposito's Quebec Major Junior Hockey League (QMJHL) career started in controversy. He was considered a possible first overall draft choice in the QMJHL, but told all general managers that he intended to play college hockey in the NCAA. As a result, he was passed up by the first ten picks in the QMJHL Draft. Just minutes before the Val-d'Or Foreurs were slated to make their pick, at eleventh overall, the Quebec Remparts announced that they had traded several players and draft choices to get the Foreurs' drafting position and selected Esposito. A couple of weeks later, Esposito and the Remparts came to an agreement, despite his previously announced college hockey commitment.

I wonder what changed his mind after only a few days? How was that fair to the other ten teams who passed up on the best player in the draft?

The problem isn't just London. It's across all 3 leagues. The best players want to play for the best programs. The best programs want to get the best players. Unfortunately, we have to live in this charade where the CHL try to champion themselves as a competitive fair league when its anything but.

It's not by coincidence that London, Quebec, Portland, ect ect make it to the league finals or the memorial cup every other year while teams like Acadie-Bathurst, Swift Current can barely make the playoffs.

I say, just stop pretending this sideshow doesn't exist and restructure the CHL in a way that allows the top players to play for the top teams. The hockey will be infinitely better since teams like London won't spend 80% of the season crushing weaker opponents 10-0. The players will be better off since they will play against equal peers. No more Conor Garland and Mitch Marner scoring 150 pts in a season.

60 CHL franchises doesn't make sense when the best players only want to play for 10 of them and a big chunk of the weaker teams operate in areas in the country where the team can barely operate let alone compete with the big boys.

 

[Skinnyjimmy08]

Not to mention that Seth Jones was 100% ncaa for quite some time... he was property of Everett silvertips for a while but wouldn't go play... his rights were then traded to another USA team, the again infamous Portland winter hawks and right away he strangely signed with them and left everyone scratching their heads... we all know what happened there

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Not to mention that Seth Jones was 100% ncaa for quite some time... he was property of Everett silvertips for a while but wouldn't go play... his rights were then traded to another USA team, the again infamous Portland winter hawks and right away he strangely signed with them and left everyone scratching their heads... we all know what happened there

Excellent example.

Then we have Nathan MacKinnon who skated with Omaha (USHL) for a month to force a trade from Baie-Comeau to Halifax.

 

[Tigers1992]

Teams don't draft players that in no circumstances will not commit to playing for their organization.

You mean in no circumstances will commit? In no circumstances will not commit is a double negative, it means they will commit

Sure they do. Saginaw's first two players in this past draft committed to the US-NTDP. Sarnia's first round draft pick is committed to the US-NTDP. Sarnia's 4th round pick is committed to the US-NTDP. Plymouth made a killing out of drafting US players and waiting on them to change their mind. It happens all the time. Windsor has Keller, Kitchener has McAvoy. Every team in the OHL has players on their roster that have NCAA commits, its just London takes them before anyone else does. (at least they use to).

Ill always ask, why can't we get guys to commit to play with us, what are we doing wrong, versus simply waiving the white flag and complaining. Imagine of players quit? How hard would fans be on them? Why give your teams management a pass for putting their hands up in the air and saying 'we quit'. Sarnia/Sagainw drafted guys and will work on them, just like London does.

Then we have Nathan MacKinnon who skated with Omaha (USHL) for a month to force a trade from Baie-Comeau to Halifax.

Memory severs, that trade worked out pretty well for Baie Comeau.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Sure they do. Saginaw's first two players in this past draft committed to the US-NTDP. Sarnia's first round draft pick is committed to the US-NTDP. Sarnia's 4th round pick is committed to the US-NTDP. Plymouth made a killing out of drafting US players and waiting on them to change their mind.

Ill always ask, why can't we get guys to commit to play with us, what are we doing wrong, versus simply waiving the white flag and complaining. Imagine of players quit? How hard would fans be on them?

It's not an equal playing field. That's the point.

What teams like London offers to their players in terms of living location, exposure to NHL scouts, education and coaching is bar none better than most other CHL teams. Coaching and Education especially costs teams lots of money. Money teams like London, Quebec & Portland has and the rest of the CHL doesn't.

If you are a top American player your choice is North Dakota, Michigan, Boston College or Wisconsin on the NCAA side and Sudbury on the OHL side, where do you go? It's a no-brainer in my eyes. The only way London attracts the Patrick Kane type guys is by offering something more than what NCAA and the other OHL franchises can't provide. By the way Patrick Kane was drafted 88th overall in the OHL draft by London.

 

[Fixed to Ruin]

Memory severs, that trade worked out pretty well for Baie Comeau.

Last time I checked Halifax won the Memorial cup in 2013 not Baie Comeau.

Edit: The leading scorer of the tournament & the MVP was Nathan MacKinnon