Why is it inconceivable for Matthews to be McDavid's equal?

CantLoseWithMatthews

Registered User
Sep 28, 2015
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What was mcdavis favourite team ?

Toronto.

If your ignorant you will say that.

However "Toronto boy" mcdavid favourite team wasn't Toronto because during the time he was growing up, that team was garbage.

His favourite team is Pittsburgh because of Crosby.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...e-leafs-dream-come-true-no-1-draft-pick-2015/
McDavid must be pretty ignorant then since he considered himself a leafs fan

Either that or you have no clue what you're talking about
 

Eternal Leaf

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Jul 4, 2011
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What was mcdavis favourite team ?

Toronto.

If your ignorant you will say that.

However "Toronto boy" mcdavid favourite team wasn't Toronto because during the time he was growing up, that team was garbage.

His favourite team is Pittsburgh because of Crosby.

While I don't know why people care about this stuff, I want to challenge your logic.

Auston Matthew's favorite team growing up was Arizona/Phoenix and they were complete garbage. Not every fan is a bandwagoner. :)
 

Der Jaeger

Generational EBUG
Feb 14, 2009
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It is a fairly long list of professionals that have made this statement but none of them know what they are talking about, or so we are told. If you review this entire thread there has only been 2 quantifiable reasons with merit given for Matthews to never be comparable to McDavid.

McDavid's speed and his ability to play at that speed (which is easily the best)

McDavid's .23 points a game advantage as a rookie (granted he has a small sample size which would be a 19 point lead over a full season)

Both sound reasons to suggest McDavid is significantly better, as a rookie.

Other reasons we have been given are:

Line mates: Hyman and Nylander/Brown are greater than Lucic and Eberle, dubious at best

Hockey IQ: Subjective, unquantifiable and so holding little value as a comparison

An imaginary ceiling Matthews has: This one is ridiculous because it is again subjective and impossible to know

He is better at every aspect of the game: This of course ignores Matthews physical advantages, boards, corners, traffic, goal scoring, take aways etc.

Matthews was sheltered: The stats I have seen suggest this was true at the start of the season and became less so as the season progressed. It was absolutely not true in the playoffs.

So we have two real reasons.

1. Play at high speed never seen before.

2. Superior rookie numbers.

The first reason is very compelling, we have never seen a player with his speed and his ability to exploit that speed. The flaw with this argument though is it assumes there is only one way to be generational/or the best player in the game despite the entire history of the game suggesting the greats had a wide range of styles and skills though all share a rare ability to see the game (except maybe Lindros?). Again though this is something difficult to measure without hind sight.

The second assumes that progression has a formula required to be generational or to one day be the best. It assumes an arbitrary ppg rookie number that McDavid hit and Matthews did not in order to be a generational talent. However I am fairly certain if we said Draisaitl could not be as good as player X because of an inferior rookie season Oiler fans would laugh at us.

So anyone who is objective cannot say with certainty that Matthews is not generational or that he could never rival McDavid, there simply has been no case to support this.

We can look at the players who entered the league with McDavid's rookie point per game and say everyone else who was comparable was a special player, this is undeniable. We can also look at players like Martin St Louis and say that claiming to know someone's ceiling at such a young age is sheer stupidity.

So what we can conclude is McDavid is a vastly superior player as of this moment. That Matthews will have to make significant strides to close that gap and that the odds are against him. We can also conclude when looking at Matthew's rookie season when put into the context of age and position, that it was a remarkable achievement, it becomes even more so when scoring by era is factored in.

In conclusion, those stating Matthews is equal to or better than McDavid at this moment are not being objective. The same can also be said for those who claim he could never rival McDavid or be generational. He could (just as Eichel could) but he has a hell of a lot to prove before we can say either.

There really is no other reasonable conclusion.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying here, but I think you're overlooking the play speed factor. It's not just the play speed. McDavid processes the game just as fast as he skates and stickhandles.

We've seen fast players, and players who process the game at an elite level. But together? That's what I think puts McDavid onto the generational tier. It's no slight to Matthews (or even to Eichel). McDavid is elite hockey IQ in overdrive.
 

Quiet Jack

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Mar 24, 2017
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This thread, as one might expect, is complete garbage.

How do you guys put so much effort into something that isn't prove-able?

McDavid has played two seasons. Matthews has played one season. Why do we have to issue absolute statements this early into their careers? That's the problem with most threads on this site. They are too absolute.
 

Willy Styles

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Nov 5, 2014
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What was mcdavis favourite team ?

Toronto.

If your ignorant you will say that.

However "Toronto boy" mcdavid favourite team wasn't Toronto because due ring the time he was growing up, that team was garbage.

His favourite team is Pittsburgh because of Crosby.

Lol imagine getting completely roasted in a thread in which you made a completely false statement bordering on some sort of paranoid inferiority complex with the Leafs. Sadly there's hundreds of more people like this on the boards when it comes to the Leafs.

Fwiw, I'll take 10 million a year Matthews who scores 40 goals is a beast on the draw (when compared to other rookies), and is good enough to put up 70-90 points in any given year and is very effective in the playoffs rather than. 13.25 million player who puts up 100 points and looks like something you've never seen before in terms of skating and handling.

McDavid has the wow factor that everyone understands he's a true generational player, but to say Matthews isn't in the same conversation is ludicrous. That's like saying Crosby is the undisputed best player for the past 12 years (he's not many people like Kopitar, Bergeron, Toews, Backstrom, Tavares etc. were better than him in recent years.

I like to think of McDavid vs Matthews as Malkin vs Crosby, but Oilers fans are just way to ignorant and arrogant to even argue with. If Matthews scores 40 goals and 80 points every year I'll take him every year over 13.25 million golden boy.

Fwiw, McDavid would never demand 13.25 from the Leafs
 

Teufelsdreck

Registered User
Sep 17, 2005
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I'm not an Oiler fan but McDavid is my favorite NHL player. When I watch him I see an unmatched talent. His skills are spectacular. He's a much better skater than Matthews and he knows how to score. However, this is not to say that Matthews isn't an excellent player with HOF skills.
 

Revelation

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Aug 15, 2016
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McDavid is much faster, much better at handling the puck at high speed, much more skilled, has much better vision. Matthews is... thicker and better at mucking up the front o the net? It's like comparing Datsyuk with Mike Knuble, there's no comparison honestly.
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
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You wont win a cup with that cap hit.

And god help you if he goes down with another long term injury. Its a team game and you need the abolity to roll three to four lines.

Pittsburgh is going to laugh themselves all the way to a 3rd cup because their star knows this

As I'm sure others have likely pointed out to you.. You do know that Crosby took up a higher percentage of the cap when he signed his $8.7M contract, right? And that the Pens went on to win a cup the same season right?
 

Plural

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Mar 10, 2011
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In the end, all it takes is for McDavid to ever so slightly underperform and Matthews to ever so slightly over perform (relative to our expectations) and they're on the same level. I would bet McDavid to always be considered better and a tad above Matthews. But it's not impossible that McDavid becomes slightly worse player than most of us think and Matthews becomes slightly better player than we all think.
 

nbwingsfan

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Dec 13, 2009
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Lol imagine getting completely roasted in a thread in which you made a completely false statement bordering on some sort of paranoid inferiority complex with the Leafs. Sadly there's hundreds of more people like this on the boards when it comes to the Leafs.

Fwiw, I'll take 10 million a year Matthews who scores 40 goals is a beast on the draw (when compared to other rookies), and is good enough to put up 70-90 points in any given year and is very effective in the playoffs rather than. 13.25 million player who puts up 100 points and looks like something you've never seen before in terms of skating and handling.

McDavid has the wow factor that everyone understands he's a true generational player, but to say Matthews isn't in the same conversation is ludicrous. That's like saying Crosby is the undisputed best player for the past 12 years (he's not many people like Kopitar, Bergeron, Toews, Backstrom, Tavares etc. were better than him in recent years.

I like to think of McDavid vs Matthews as Malkin vs Crosby, but Oilers fans are just way to ignorant and arrogant to even argue with. If Matthews scores 40 goals and 80 points every year I'll take him every year over 13.25 million golden boy.

Fwiw, McDavid would never demand 13.25 from the Leafs

I like how

1. Matthews is all of a sudden paid $3.5M less than McDavid despite NEITHER player signing their second contract yet

2. Matthews magically jumps to a 70-90pt player despite not hitting either of those point totals, yet McDavid stays exactly where he is at 100.

It was a nice try I guess.. :shakehead
 

Soliloquy of a Dogge

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Aug 8, 2012
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I like how

1. Matthews is all of a sudden paid $3.5M less than McDavid despite NEITHER player signing their second contract yet

2. Matthews magically jumps to a 70-90pt player despite not hitting either of those point totals, yet McDavid stays exactly where he is at 100.

It was a nice try I guess.. :shakehead

Logic isn't a strong suit for some apparently.

He served that one up for you on a silver platter to rebut. Way too easy, I'd almost think it was a trap. Sometimes I wonder... :laugh:
 

Plural

Registered User
Mar 10, 2011
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I like how

1. Matthews is all of a sudden paid $3.5M less than McDavid despite NEITHER player signing their second contract yet

2. Matthews magically jumps to a 70-90pt player despite not hitting either of those point totals, yet McDavid stays exactly where he is at 100.

It was a nice try I guess.. :shakehead

That's one delusional post... :laugh: Wow. Kind of makes you think it wasn't even meant to be taken seriously but you never know in this forum.
 

Willy Styles

Registered User
Nov 5, 2014
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York Region
I like how

1. Matthews is all of a sudden paid $3.5M less than McDavid despite NEITHER player signing their second contract yet

2. Matthews magically jumps to a 70-90pt player despite not hitting either of those point totals, yet McDavid stays exactly where he is at 100.

It was a nice try I guess.. :shakehead

1. Considering I was talking about Matthews future, he scored 69 points, if your suggesting Matthews isn't a 70 point player, or has somehow peaked playing with Hyman on his LW your even more out to lunch

2. Currently as it stands, 40 goal centres are paid approximately 10 million dollars, 100 point centres get 13.25 apparently, not to mention Matthews is going to have way more opportunities for endorsements and such playing in Toronto

Your also a known leafs hater so good job, I'm just bringing up the fact that it's likely going to be like Malkin/Crosby rather than "McDavid is in his own league" conversation I keep hearing in this stupid thread. But ofcourse you have no real argument to that other than poking holes in my logical assertions
 

nbwingsfan

Registered User
Dec 13, 2009
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1. Considering I was talking about Matthews future, he scored 69 points, if your suggesting Matthews isn't a 70 point player, or has somehow peaked playing with Hyman on his LW your even more out to lunch

2. Currently as it stands, 40 goal centres are paid approximately 10 million dollars, 100 point centres get 13.25 apparently, not to mention Matthews is going to have way more opportunities for endorsements and such playing in Toronto

Your also a known leafs hater so good job, I'm just bringing up the fact that it's likely going to be like Malkin/Crosby rather than "McDavid is in his own league" conversation I keep hearing in this stupid thread. But ofcourse you have no real argument to that other than poking holes in my logical assertions

Again, you're giving Matthews a magical 21 point boost while not changing McDavids totals at all. Would you still take Matthews if he was scoring 80 points And McDavid was scoring 120? I sure hope not.

Again, there is not a single comparable that you can find between the situation McDavid/Matthews are and will be with their contracts. So to use this imaginary $3.5M gap that you decide is what Matthews is going to be paid compared to McDavid despite not knowing what either of them is actually paid is asinine.

As you've seen, a couple people thought you were joking it was such a ridiculous post.
 

Heretic

Registered User
May 25, 2012
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Brooklyn, NY
I'm not an Oiler fan but McDavid is my favorite NHL player. When I watch him I see an unmatched talent. His skills are spectacular. He's a much better skater than Matthews and he knows how to score. However, this is not to say that Matthews isn't an excellent player with HOF skills.

Exactly, the eye test and the stats are in lockstep. If you watch both, you know who's better. I've watched both on tv and in person and mcdavid is such a special player. Everything he does looks effortless.
 

wabagee

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Nov 24, 2014
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It will be funny when Toronto signs him to 7.5 it's gonna be such a steal! Because? =toranta!
 

Eternal Leaf

Registered User
Jul 4, 2011
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Toronto
McDavid is much faster, much better at handling the puck at high speed, much more skilled, has much better vision. Matthews is... thicker and better at mucking up the front o the net? It's like comparing Datsyuk with Mike Knuble, there's no comparison honestly.

While I agree about McDavid, no need to disrespect one player to boost the other.

Matthews is an exceptional talent.
 

Plural

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Mar 10, 2011
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While I agree about McDavid, no need to disrespect one player to boost the other.

Matthews is an exceptional talent.

Definitely. Matthews is in my books the second most valuable young player in the league. There are few guys competing with him (Eichel, Laine, etc.) but he is the most valuable asset after McDavid when it comes to young players.
 

lawrence

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May 19, 2012
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In the end, all it takes is for McDavid to ever so slightly underperform and Matthews to ever so slightly over perform (relative to our expectations) and they're on the same level. I would bet McDavid to always be considered better and a tad above Matthews. But it's not impossible that McDavid becomes slightly worse player than most of us think and Matthews becomes slightly better player than we all think.

well if that's the case, then all it takes is for one other random player to have equal stats to Matthews, they start a thread is this player equal to Matthews, with stats and everything to back it up, then all Leafs nation goes up in arms.

You don't see Blackhawks fans saying Kane is as good as Crosby do you? Stats this year is quite similar, but they are not saying it.

would you like it, if one day, (already happened) Leon Draisatl outscores Matthews by 8 points and they say Drastl is at Matthews level? I don't think you guys will like it very much.
 

Plural

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Mar 10, 2011
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well if that's the case, then all it takes is for one other random player to have equal stats to Matthews, they start a thread is this player equal to Matthews, with stats and everything to back it up, then all Leafs nation goes up in arms.

You don't see Blackhawks fans saying Kane is as good as Crosby do you? Stats this year is quite similar, but they are not saying it.

would you like it, if one day, (already happened) Leon Draisatl outscores Matthews by 8 points and they say Drastl is at Matthews level? I don't think you guys will like it very much.

I think you're mixing me to a Leafs fan. If you scroll back this thread (or look my history) you'll see that's not the case. In fact I've been saying all along in this thread that McDavid is better and most likely will always remain so. Matthews might challenge him one or few seasons, but he's probably never going to be consistently as good as McDavid is.

That said, if McDavid doesn't develop as well as we all believe he will, these things happen and Matthews ends up being bit better than we think he's going to be, those things happen too, then it's possible that they might end up being similar caliber players. Is it likely? No. It's highly unlikely and I don't expect it to happen. But it's not entirely impossible.
 

ACC1224

Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
Aug 19, 2002
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At this point the only way Matthews could ever have a chance to be considered in the same tier as McDavid is if they switched Teams.
 

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