Why is Crosby considered a clutch SCF performer?

[Coffey]

Why does everyone think this is McDavid based?
I didn't even have any McDavid discussions with anyone on HF before making this thread.

 

[Video Nasty]

Would love to have seen mcdavids stats in 2009 going against a prime lidstrom, zetterberg and rafalski on his ass every shift while playing with guerin n kunitz

Crosby set the bar so low that clearing it wouldn’t be much of a challenge.

 

[daver]

Why does everyone think this is McDavid based?
I didn't even have any McDavid discussions with anyone on HF before making this thread.

Because it is, at best, a strawman thread about a player who contributed the most to the team who was the most successful of his era (most playoff wins, 3 Cups, 1 EC Championship).

 

[Coffey]

Because it is, at best, a strawman thread about a player who contributed the most to the team who was the most successful of his era (most playoff wins, 3 Cups, 1 EC Championship).

Yea he did contribute to those, but my argument is that he wasn't as offensively dominant or clutch as his CS wins might dictate.

I gave my stats in the first post. They make him seem underwhelming in the finals, despite me mentioning in this thread that he's already a legendary player and this doesn't take away from that, just making discussion about his lackluster point production.

 

[daver]

Yea he did contribute to those, but my argument is that he wasn't as offensively dominant or clutch as his CS wins might dictate.

I gave my stats in the first post. They make him seem underwhelming in the finals, despite me mentioning in this thread that he's already a legendary player and this doesn't take away from that, just making discussion about his lackluster point production.

All around play/defensive play is considered in CS wins as is play in the other three rounds.

Weird to make this argument for 2017 when he was the clear best offensive Pen. Oh, I guess points in the Cup clinching game only matter.

But what about 2016? O wait, I guess points in the games that lead up to the Cup clinching game only matter.

 

[Coffey]

All around play/defensive play is considered in CS wins as is play in the other three rounds.

Weird to make this argument for 2017 when he was the clear best offensive Pen. Oh, I guess points in the Cup clinching game only matter.

But what about 2016? O wait, I guess points in the games that lead up to the Cup clinching game only matter.

I'll give him 2017, he was the highest scorer in the finals racking up a bunch of apples.
But in 2016 he was outscored by Couture and Letang.
And I'd rather not mention 2009.

 

[blundluntman]

Well the OP is not clear on what they mean by "clutch". Seems clear that total points in the SCF is considered "clutch", not necessarily those scored in specific times of game or series, so if you want to argue he isn't "clutch" in the SCF, then he is the hands down clutchest player in the other rounds.

If you want to argue your definition of clutch, then I would question the value of placing that label on someone in comparison to Crosby, who as mentioned above, has scored the most valuable playoff points of his era, and as noted in the above breakdown, context is needed when looking at his SCF point totals.

All I can do is speak for myself and contribute to the thread. How others define clutch is up to them

 

[PaulD]

Yes, sorry Toews. Corrected.


This is true, as well as without some of those role players they had over the years they wouldn't have won all of them either.

Yes, Ill say it again. It's a team game especially come play offs. A 200 ft game. Where stars don't cheat on defence to go on offence.
Ya need everybody pulling on the rope.
That's how Sid and the Pens won 3 cups.
It's also why Leafs can't win 3 rounds.

Nit bashing the leafs .....
just the best example.

 

[daver]

I'll give him 2017, he was the highest scorer in the finals racking up a bunch of apples.
But in 2016 he was outscored by Couture and Letang.
And I'd rather not mention 2009.

I am sure that mentioning 2009 in the Crosby household is a huge faux pas.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I'll give him 2017, he was the highest scorer in the finals racking up a bunch of apples.
But in 2016 he was outscored by Couture and Letang.
And I'd rather not mention 2009.

Crosby assisted on the game winner in 2 out of the 4 games in the finals. And he scored the game winner in like 3 of the 4 games in the Lightning series in the ECF. Is that not clutch?

You seem to be going back and forth between "clutch" and "most productive". They're not the same. Someone scoring 8 points in a series, but all 8 come in his team's losses is not more "clutch" than someone who only scores 4 points in a series but all 4 are game winning goals.

 

[BJCOLLINS]

There’s no stat line for effort, heart & compete.

Sid has never had stud finishers like Kurri or Hull for a sustained period of time, how many 50 goal scoring wingers has he had? Throughout his career he’s made all the players around him better, always driving the play & often being the finisher.

Rings are your best stat line

 

[Grifter3511]

Yea he did contribute to those, but my argument is that he wasn't as offensively dominant or clutch as his CS wins might dictate.

I gave my stats in the first post. They make him seem underwhelming in the finals, despite me mentioning in this thread that he's already a legendary player and this doesn't take away from that, just making discussion about his lackluster point production.

I think you might need to look at what the CS is actually all about.

Crosby assisted on the game winner in 2 out of the 4 games in the finals. And he scored the game winner in like 3 of the 4 games in the Lightning series in the ECF. Is that not clutch?

You seem to be going back and forth between "clutch" and "most productive". They're not the same. Someone scoring 8 points in a series, but all 8 come in his team's losses is not more "clutch" than someone who only scores 4 points in a series but all 4 are game winning goals.

Tends to happen when you start a thread in bad faith and don't really know what you're even talking about.

 

[banks]

Crosby is known as a good playoff performer. But I don't remember too many times where people specify that he's great in the Cup Final, as opposed to just the playoffs in general. So I don't know what this complaint is about.

Even if "clutch in the SCF" was a common thing for fans to talk about, it's not like it's totally wrong. Sheesh. People will complain about ANYTHING.

 

[SEALBound]

Sid is also going to go down as one of the greatest leaders in NHL history as well. No one is going to care about a SCF stat line when you have three cups and two conn smyths.

 

[Grifter3511]

Crosby is known as a good playoff performer. But I don't remember too many times where people specify that he's great in the Cup Final, as opposed to just the playoffs in general. So I don't know what this complaint is about.

Even if "clutch in the SCF" was a common thing for fans to talk about, it's not like it's totally wrong. Sheesh. People will complain about ANYTHING.

I asked this very thing earlier in this thread and the OP stated his reasoning is a not-insignificant amount of people said they would pick Crosby if they needed one player to win a game 7. IDK if he saw a poll or just seemed to notice a number of people saying that.

I assume he just assumed that everyone must think Crosby is clutch if they want him for a winner takes all game, but on the flip side, as I also stated earlier in this thread, Crosby has won at every level for his entire life. Maybe people just want to take a known winner. Not necessarily 'the guy whose game noticeably elevates at the 16:00 minute mark of the third period when his team is down by a goal.'

 

[daver]

I asked this very thing earlier in this thread and the OP stated his reasoning is a not-insignificant amount of people said they would pick Crosby if they needed one player to win a game 7. IDK if he saw a poll or just seemed to notice a number of people saying that.

I assume he just assumed that everyone must think Crosby is clutch if they want him for a winner takes all game, but on the flip side, as I also stated earlier in this thread, Crosby has won at every level for his entire life. Maybe people just want to take a known winner. Not necessarily 'the guy whose game noticeably elevates at the 16:00 minute mark of the third period when his team is down by a goal.'

You give your team the best chance to not be down a goal with 4 minutes left if you take Crosby.

 

[sena]

The Canadian hero gets all the credit. Forget them Russians and yanks they are passengers

 

[Midnight Judges]

Yes, Ill say it again. It's a team game especially come play offs. A 200 ft game. Where stars don't cheat on defence to go on offence.

Crosby's defensive stats in the playoffs are not remotely anything to brag about.

Crosby was on the ice for 146 goals against in 181 games - that's .81 goals against per game, with practically zero penalty killing (3 goals against on the PK).

For reference, Datsyuk and Bergeron are closer to .40 goals against. In other words, they surrender half as many goals against as Crosby does - except unlike Crosby they have substantial defensive responsibilities.

Even Alex Ovechkin's defensive statistics in the playoffs are superior to Sidney Crosby's at .74 goals against per game (also 3 goals against on the PK).

 

[DearDiary]

Crosby's defensive stats in the playoffs are not remotely anything to brag about.

Crosby was on the ice for 146 goals against in 181 games - that's .81 goals against per game, with practically zero penalty killing (3 goals against on the PK).

For reference, Datsyuk and Bergeron are closer to .40 goals against. In other words, they surrender half as many goals against as Crosby does - except unlike Crosby they have substantial defensive responsibilities.

Even Alex Ovechkin's defensive statistics in the playoffs are superior to Sidney Crosby's at .74 goals against per game (also 3 goals against on the PK).

A small maybe 0.0001% chance that Ovechkins numbers being better could have something to do with playing a lot of those games with a 1C that played a 2 way game. I think his name was Nicklas Backstrom. It's easier to put up good stats when you're playing with an elite linemate.

 

[M88K]

He's not

 

[PaulD]

Crosby's defensive stats in the playoffs are not remotely anything to brag about.

Crosby was on the ice for 146 goals against in 181 games - that's .81 goals against per game, with practically zero penalty killing (3 goals against on the PK).

For reference, Datsyuk and Bergeron are closer to .40 goals against. In other words, they surrender half as many goals against as Crosby does - except unlike Crosby they have substantial defensive responsibilities.

Even Alex Ovechkin's defensive statistics in the playoffs are superior to Sidney Crosby's at .74 goals against per game (also 3 goals against on the PK).

And everyone ranks Crisby ahead of every one of those great players.
I could cherry pick numbers from. everyone of those players if I was trying to trash them...... the way you are trying to trash Sid.

Sid
OV
Datz
Bergeron

 

[333359]

In 2009 he had 2 assists in the finals and zero points in games 5-7, including the SC winning game.

In 2016 he had 4 assists in the finals and zero points in games 3-5. Two of his four assists in the SC winning game.

In 2017 he finally scored a goal in the finals coupled with 6 assists with zero points in the SC winning game.

Is there a reason why this propaganda floats around that he’s a dependable clutch player in the finals?

A good example of not being clutch in the SCF is McDavid in game 7 last year. Now compare that to Crosby's career and I think you'll have your answer.

 

[PainForShane]

Crosby's defensive stats in the playoffs are not remotely anything to brag about.

Crosby was on the ice for 146 goals against in 181 games - that's .81 goals against per game, with practically zero penalty killing (3 goals against on the PK).

For reference, Datsyuk and Bergeron are closer to .40 goals against. In other words, they surrender half as many goals against as Crosby does - except unlike Crosby they have substantial defensive responsibilities.

Even Alex Ovechkin's defensive statistics in the playoffs are superior to Sidney Crosby's at .74 goals against per game (also 3 goals against on the PK).

Jeezus Midnight. Sid was never (and should never be) compared to actual world class defensive centers like Pavel, Patrice, or other players like prime Fedorov, Kopitar, Toews, ROR etc. For the most part, he had a very different role on the teams he played for and his skills were also not even close to the same.

Ovi is a winger. It seems like you might be implying that Ovi was better defensively -- and therefore had more of a 200 ft impact and / or a more impactful defensive impact wrt to his role - than Sid did. Is that what you're implying? Just making sure I understand your argument

 

[Midnight Judges]

A small maybe 0.0001% chance that Ovechkins numbers being better could have something to do with playing a lot of those games with a 1C that played a 2 way game. I think his name was Nicklas Backstrom. It's easier to put up good stats when you're playing with an elite linemate.

Backstrom was okay defensively.

Of course the same goes for Crosby - who played much of his career with Dupuis and Kunitz - who were both good defensively and did Crosby's defensive lifting for him.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Jeezus Midnight. Sid was never (and should never be) compared to actual world class defensive centers like Pavel, Patrice, or other players like prime Fedorov, Kopitar, Toews, ROR etc. For the most part, he had a very different role on the teams he played for and his skills were also not even close to the same.

Agree, and yet Crosby was on Selke ballots, at times receiving more first place Selke votes than Bergeron - which is utterly preposterous IMO:

2018-19 NHL Awards Voting | Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

Last season Crosby was on the ice for a whopping 93 ES goals against - one of the worst defensive seasons for any forward in decades, did not penalty kill - and still 18 voters had the temerity to claim he was a top 5 defensive forward in the entire NHL.