Why is Crosby considered a clutch SCF performer?

[Video Nasty]

It's more funny Mcdavid fan boys like yourself are so triggered by anything where it's not more adulation for Mcdavid. You go to great lengths to diminish greats to prop up Connor.

I’ve been pointing out Crosby’s shortcomings long before McDavid hit the scene. It’s not about McDavid or Crosby personally. It’s more about the lies and exaggerations that Crosby fans have peddled since the first time he got beat clean in 2008-2009 and beyond.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I’ve been pointing out Crosby’s shortcomings long before McDavid hit the scene. It’s not about McDavid or Crosby personally. It’s more about the lies and exaggerations that Crosby fans have peddled since the first time he got beat clean in 2008-2009 and beyond.

A few fans don't speak for the entire fan base the same way the whacko Mcdavid fans don't in the oilers fan base.

 

[hirawl]

Because Stanley Cup playoffs and finals are about winning not individual stats.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

this guy reminds me of LeBron James fans

 

[Arthur Morgan]

He was a role player at both Olympics too

there were no role players on both those Olympics teams, they were LOADED with stars what u talkin bout Willis

I guess that's 2 more points then McDavid has scored ever in a Stanley Cups final last game.

Scoring was lower is a big thing.
I'd rather have McDavids line mates last year than 09 and 16 to be honest.

u would rather swap Crosby out for guys that couldnt get the job done last year? are you crazy?

 

[daver]

The OP conveniently does

In 2009 he had 2 assists in the finals and zero points in games 5-7, including the SC winning game.

In 2016 he had 4 assists in the finals and zero points in games 3-5. Two of his four assists in the SC winning game.

In 2017 he finally scored a goal in the finals coupled with 6 assists with zero points in the SC winning game.

Is there a reason why this propaganda floats around that he’s a dependable clutch player in the finals?

Why not include the 2008 SCF? Does it not count because the Pens lost?

I guess that we can erase McDavid's 2024 performance from the history books. Maybe that's why he didn't come out to recieve the trophy because he knew it wouldn't count.

 

[Chet Manley]

The 1c position is too important to discount that players role in winning a cup or 3. He played against the other teams best and came out on top. Same with Toews. Total amount of goals is a shit metric to measure what they accomplished.

 

[daver]

Just to focus on this part. As a Penguins fan, I've argued this as well. I felt Geno and Kessel were robbed of theirs, I still stand by that.

Malkin's 2017 playoff claim to fame is putting up 11 points in the 1st round against a clearly overmatched opponent. Six of those points were secondary assists. The narrative after that series was despite Malkin getting 11 points, he certainly did not stand out as the clear offensive catalyst in that series that his point total would indicate.

After that series, Crosby was the catalyst in getting the Pens up 2 to 0 against the Caps, a series that eventually went 7 games. The Ottawa series was pretty even but it was Crosby who set up the Game 7 OT series winner.

Crosby was the clear best player in the SCF.

Noone was "robbed" on any Smythes. Kessel was as deserving a winner as Crosby was which was reflected in the voting results. There was no underlying media push to give it to Crosby. Any media person who felt that way would not have put Kessel second on their ballot because that would have risked Crosby not getting it.

There really isn't a great case to put Malkin over Crosby in 2017, and this was clear in the voting.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Winning erases everything

 

[Ianturnedbull]

In 2009 he had 2 assists in the finals and zero points in games 5-7, including the SC winning game.

In 2016 he had 4 assists in the finals and zero points in games 3-5. Two of his four assists in the SC winning game.

In 2017 he finally scored a goal in the finals coupled with 6 assists with zero points in the SC winning game.

Is there a reason why this propaganda floats around that he’s a dependable clutch player in the finals?

Because people with good 20/20 vision watched him play.

This is hair-splitting and a steady diet of haterade.

 

[Empoleon8771]

It’s just another false narrative created to explain why he couldn’t dominate individually as expected. It’s a shame, too—he’s a top 6-8 player, yet people still feel the need to overcompensate for him. Guy scored a whopping two goals total across 3 SCF wins and 19 games, yet is viewed as untouchable.

Instead of just shitting on this obviously agenda driven, shitty thread, I'll instead bring up stats for other players that have had 3 cup finals and show how they've done:

Crosby: 4 goals and 20 points in 25 games
Malkin: 8 goals and 18 points in 25 games
Toews: 3 goals and 11 points in 18 games
Kane: 7 goals and 16 points in 18 games
Kucherov: 6 goals and 20 points in 23 games
Bergeron: 7 goals and 13 points in 20 games

So basically, the only player that has a notably higher pace than Crosby is Kane, who's a winger and doesn't carry the same defensive responsibilities that a center has. With that said, I also think Kane has a reputation of being a big game player as well that is totally warranted.

The reason these thoughts are bad is because they never take the time to actually compare how other players do relative to Crosby, and instead just say "Crosby only has a .8 PPG in the finals!" without any context.

Okay so what's your rebuttal to this?

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I’ve been pointing out Crosby’s shortcomings long before McDavid hit the scene. It’s not about McDavid or Crosby personally. It’s more about the lies and exaggerations that Crosby fans have peddled since the first time he got beat clean in 2008-2009 and beyond.

Well you created your account in 2017 so not here at least. Or is this another one of your alternate accounts???

 

[Video Nasty]

Okay so what's your rebuttal to this?

Is he not a greater player than any of them? What do I care that he did the same or worse than lesser players?

Well you created your account in 2017 so not here at least. Or is this another one of your alternate accounts???

As much as is demonstrated otherwise, there is indeed life beyond HFBoards.

 

[DingDongCharlie]

Of course an Oilers fan started this thread lol

We don't claim him

 

[Empoleon8771]

Is he not a greater player than any of them? What do I care that he did the same or worse than lesser players?

So how other top NHL players do in the finals has no relevance when grading Crosby's finals performance?

Just more and more showing that you're not actually arguing in good faith. The numbers show Crosby is one of the best cup finals producers in the current era, even if his numbers are "only" an .8 PPG. If other guys were actually performing better in the cup finals than Crosby, you could actually argue he's underwhelming in the finals. But Kane is the only guy who's producing notably more, and he's also regarded as a terrific big game player.

The extent of the argument against Crosby in this thread is "he's underwhelming because I say so", because the numbers don't actually support the idea that he's "underwhelming" in the cup finals.

Here's a follow up question to ask: if Crosby isn't a "clutch SCF performer", who is a "clutch SCF performer"? Name the standard that would have to be met to be considered a "clutch SCF performer".

 

[Video Nasty]

So how other top NHL players do in the finals has no relevance when grading Crosby's finals performance?

Just more and more showing that you're not actually arguing in good faith. The numbers show Crosby is one of the best cup finals producers in the current era, even if his numbers are "only" an .8 PPG. If other guys were actually performing better in the cup finals than Crosby, you could actually argue he's underwhelming in the finals. But Kane is the only guy who's producing notably more, and he's also regarded as a terrific big game player.

The extent of the argument against Crosby in this thread is "he's underwhelming because I say so", because the numbers don't actually support the idea that he's "underwhelming" in the cup finals.

I’m grading Crosby against the most elite players who ever lived, since he is supposedly number five all-time. I hope to god he’d have better numbers than Toews and Bergeron. Kane is not half the player that Crosby is; it’s shameful that we’re expected to give out passes here. Two goals across three Stanley Cup Finals victories…come on. He doesn’t own a signature series like any of the Big Four or even McDavid in a losing effort for that matter. Those are the cruel facts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m grading Crosby against the most elite players who ever lived, since he is supposedly number five all-time. I hope to god he’d have better numbers than Toews and Bergeron. Kane is not half the player that Crosby is; it’s shameful that we’re expected to give out passes. Two goals across three Stanley Cup Finals victories…come on. He doesn’t own a signature series like any of the Big Four or even McDavid in losing effort for that matter. Those are the cruel facts.

Okay so you're using a completely stupid and arbitrary standard rather than actually evaluating how Crosby does relative to other players in the cup finals.

Your analysis is basically "Crosby isn't Gretzky therefore he isn't a clutch SCF player". Why should we take your opinion even remotely seriously when you're not putting in even a shred of effort to make a compelling argument?

Also McDavid stat-padding in 2 wins in the cup finals, where he had 8 of his 11 cup finals points, doesn't make it a "signature series".

 

[Grifter3511]

Crosby wins at every level and everything there is to win.

Bitches: but he doesn't win the way he should win!!!

 

[Video Nasty]

Okay so you're using a completely stupid and arbitrary standard rather than actually evaluating how Crosby does relative to other players in the cup finals.

Your analysis is basically "Crosby isn't Gretzky therefore he isn't a clutch SCF player". Why should we take your opinion even remotely seriously when you're not putting in even a shred of effort to make a compelling argument?

Also McDavid stat-padding in 2 wins in the cup finals, where he had 8 of his 11 cup finals points, doesn't make it a "signature series".

My “analysis” is comparing him to each member of the Big Four and the incoming member who will boot Crosby down a spot on any list as he remolds it into a new Big Five. I’m sorry that Crosby never demonstrated the individual dominance expected of him or shown by his successor multiple times over. He’s still a top 6-8 player ever, in a league with over a hundred years of history. He still did well.

 

[Empoleon8771]

My “analysis” is comparing him to each member of the Big Four and the incoming member who will boot Crosby down a spot on any list as he remolds it into a new Big Five. I’m sorry that Crosby never demonstrated the individual dominance expected of him or shown by his successor multiple times over.

Like I said, completely stupid and arbitrary that is solely made to discredit Crosby.

 

[Video Nasty]

Like I said, completely stupid and arbitrary that is solely made to discredit Crosby.

If he did it, we’d all be hearing about it. Like anything he didn’t actually do, it’s seen as less important by those with an emotional attachement.

 

[blundluntman]

I don't think Crosby is a clutch playoff performer and I don't think people that would say he is are using the same universal standards most use for the word. I think of guys like Gretzky, Roy, Sakic, Kane, etc. when I think of clutch bc its more about the timing/psychology of greatness.

Sakic in 96 for example didn't just lead the playoffs in scoring, he scored very key goals in games where the Avs were either on the brink of elimination or on the brink of going down 3-2 in a tied series. A lot of his goals were game-winners as well. He was almost like a superhero that playoff run.

I think of Roy in 93 with his overtime streak or his wink in the finals. He was unbreakable and his confidence demoralized the opposition. That reputation mythologized him in a way and he proved himself time and time again by raising his level of play once the post-season started. He was like the immovable object in that sense.

I think of Gretzky's OT goal in 88 against the Flames or his Game 7 hat trick in 93 (there are probably a lot more iconic moments that I'm not remembering). In general, Gretzky had a killer instinct and wanted to crush the opposition every chance he got.

Kane in modern times also earned his clutch reputation by scoring game-winners and seeming to rise to the occasion whenever he was needed. His overall playoff numbers weren't any better than his regular season play, but the timing made a difference.

Crosby's still a good playoff performer and was reliable/versatile but he didn't really rise to the occasion offensively in (key moments of) the post-season like the guys I mentioned(not saying he never has, but it's not often enough for it to be a defining quality). I don't see it often, but when people do bring up Crosby as a clutch player, it's usually a package argument in a grander narrative of why he's better than a McDavid/Ovi and pretty dependent on confirmation bias and team success. Saying he's not "clutch" isn't saying he's not a good playoff performer.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If he did it, we’d all be hearing about it. Like anything he didn’t actually do, it’s seen as less important by those with an emotional attachement.

You're just proving my point more and more.

Your arguments are always about tearing Crosby down and coming up with any argument to downplay him, even if the argument is completely disingenuous.

I don't think Crosby is a clutch playoff performer and I don't think people that would say he is are using the same universal standards most use for the word. I think of guys like Gretzky, Roy, Sakic, Kane, etc. when I think of clutch bc its more about the timing/psychology of greatness.

How is Kane a "clutch player" but Crosby isn't? Kane's production is marginally more than Crosby's in the finals (16 points in 18 games for Kane, 20 points in 25 games for Corsby) while Kane also has bad finals series (3 points in 6 games in 2015).

 

[blundluntman]

You're just proving my point more and more.



How is Kane a "clutch player" but Crosby isn't? Kane's production is marginally more than Crosby's in the finals (16 points in 18 games for Kane, 20 points in 25 games for Corsby) while Kane also has bad finals series (3 points in 6 games in 2015).

Kane in modern times also earned his clutch reputation by scoring game-winners and seeming to rise to the occasion whenever he was needed. His overall playoff numbers weren't any better than his regular season play, but the timing made a difference.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Which is still incorrect. Kane has 2 career GWGs in the cup finals.

He had the OT winner against Philly in game 6 in 2010 and the game winner in the 2nd period against Boston in game 5 in 2013. Crosby had 1 GWG in the finals in his career, it was a 2nd period goal against Detroit in game 4 of 2009.