Why is Crosby considered a clutch SCF performer?

[SirKillalot]

In 2009 he had 2 assists in the finals and zero points in games 5-7, including the SC winning game.

In 2016 he had 4 assists in the finals and zero points in games 3-5. Two of his four assists in the SC winning game.

In 2017 he finally scored a goal in the finals coupled with 6 assists with zero points in the SC winning game.

Is there a reason why this propaganda floats around that he’s a dependable clutch player in the finals?

Maybe because he got gifted two Conn Smythe's.

Yes we can agree he was among the Penguins best players, but its quite clear that Malkin should have had a second Conn Smythe and Phil Kessel should have had one. Only reason Kessel didn't win is because of him having a reputation as lazy and being a carefree hot dog eating lunchbox.

It's sad that politics ruined the voting process.
It's the same with the 2010 Olympics thing where he gets the hype for scoring "the goal" when Iginla worked his ass of for the goal and Jonathan Toews was the best player all tournament and not just pop-up in the final.
That being said, that team could afford not being on top all the time as their structure and defensive play was so much better than any of the other teams. Kudos Mike Babcock.

 

[PaulD]

What does that have to do with Crosby?

Asking him to dumb it down for you .....after he already did. lol

 

[Romang67]

Asking him to dumb it down for you .....after he already did. lol

You don't actually think he means that the NHL in 09, 16, and 17 were equivalent to the DPE, right?

Because I suspect that McDavid would have been able to score in the NHL in 2016 and 2017 as well. Given how he won the scoring title in 2017 and whatnot. And the scoring wasn't low in 09.

 

[PB37]

If given the chance, every single team would say yes to having a prime Crosby in a must win it all Cup Finals game. The premise behind this thread is ridiculous.

 

[dalewood12]

Sid’s performance in Game 5 of the 2017 finals is one of the greatest single game performances of his career. Put the team on his back.

 

[filinski77]

Crosby has 4 goals in 25 SCF matches in his career. He is objectively a bad cup final goal scorer, matched with low overall point production in the finals, it makes it real hard to say he’s good in the finals.

 

[daver]

Maybe because he got gifted two Conn Smythe's.

Yes we can agree he was among the Penguins best players, but its quite clear that Malkin should have had a second Conn Smythe and Phil Kessel should have had one. Only reason Kessel didn't win is because of him having a reputation as lazy and being a carefree hot dog eating lunchbox.

It's sad that politics ruined the voting process.
It's the same with the 2010 Olympics thing where he gets the hype for scoring "the goal" when Iginla worked his ass of for the goal and Patrice Bergeron was the best player all tournament and not just pop-up in the final.
That being said, that team could afford not being on top all the time as their structure and defensive play was so much better than any of the other teams. Kudos Mike Babcock.

How so? It is pretty accepted that Malkin wracked up an unusual amount of 2nd assists in their easy first round win against the Jackets. After that, Crosby was clearly their best player.

Crosby has 4 goals in 25 SCF matches in his career. He is objectively a bad cup final goal scorer, matched with low overall point production in the finals, it makes it real hard to say he’s good in the finals.

So McDavid's 8 goals in 25 games last year meant he was only average?

 

[elmaco]

Is this where we post cup pictures
View attachment 931317

Such a likeable team. First there were Lemieux and Jagr, after that, Crosby and Malkin.

 

[JackSlater]

I don't remember ever hearing people describe Crosby this way to a noteworthy degree. He's mostly derided for his finals performances, fairly or not.

Maybe because he got gifted two Conn Smythe's.

Yes we can agree he was among the Penguins best players, but its quite clear that Malkin should have had a second Conn Smythe and Phil Kessel should have had one. Only reason Kessel didn't win is because of him having a reputation as lazy and being a carefree hot dog eating lunchbox.

It's sad that politics ruined the voting process.
It's the same with the 2010 Olympics thing where he gets the hype for scoring "the goal" when Iginla worked his ass of for the goal and Patrice Bergeron was the best player all tournament and not just pop-up in the final.
That being said, that team could afford not being on top all the time as their structure and defensive play was so much better than any of the other teams. Kudos Mike Babcock.

What alternate reality have I stumbled into? Malkin definitely didn't deserve a second Conn Smythe and Bergeron got hurt in the first game of the 2010 Olympics and was the most irrelevant player on the team.

 

[Cubs2024wildcard]

Fourth: This ^ reply.

You do know what the definition of clutch is, yes?

Here, this is from Oxford;

(in sport) denoting or occurring in a critical situation in which the outcome of a game or competition is at stake.

Helps, hope it does.

 

[SirKillalot]

How so? It is pretty accepted that Malkin wracked up an unusual amount of 2nd assists in their easy first round win against the Jackets. After that, Crosby was clearly their best player.

He clearly was not.
We can agree to disagree, its okay. I don't mind.

There is the argument there to say he was better in the Finals vs. Nashville which is okay.
But overall throughout the four rounds, I don't think there is argument for that he was clearly better. At best up towards equal. It's not a huge "robbery" per se, but Malkin was robbed of his 2nd Conn Smythe in my opinion.

Malkin had more goals, more points, better in even strength overall (more goals, better plus/minus, Crosby had more assists), more power play points, a short handed point, more blocks and more hits, while playing on average a minute and 20 seconds less per game. Which in the finals Crosby was playing 3 more minutes per game than him.

The argument of heavier load, it goes to a degree, but to me there is two things. I don't think Malkin would be much worse of with the "heavier load" and I don't think Crosby did enough offensively with the argument. If he going to be top 5 all time as some say, he also need to score more vs. those opponents than he did to earn that accolade. I think some of his effort is perceived better than it was.

There is a pretty good chance given their opponents faced that if the ice time was even, Malkin again would have a bigger points lead than 1 point.

Make no mistake, I'm all for Crosby being among the teams best players, but I don't personally think that in either of his 3 cup wins, he has been "the one" where he clearly stood out as the best. For sure he was good and among the best and because of them having a better team that most pretend them to have had, he won 3 cups as a very important piece of it.

 

[PaulD]

You don't actually think he means that the NHL in 09, 16, and 17 were equivalent to the DPE, right?

Because I suspect that McDavid would have been able to score in the NHL in 2016 and 2017 as well. Given how he won the scoring title in 2017 and whatnot. And the scoring wasn't low in 09.

But even he great Connor McDavid couldn't score a goal in games 5 6 and 7 in the finals .....gonna shit all over him eight years from now too.
Pens have 3 cups since 09. Without Sid they would have won none of those.
It's a team game ...... no more so than when going on a long play off run..

 

[SirKillalot]

Bergeron got hurt in the first game of the 2010 Olympics

Yes, sorry Toews. Corrected.

Pens have 3 cups since 09. Without Sid they would have won none of those.
It's a team game ...... no more so than when going on a long play off run..

This is true, as well as without some of those role players they had over the years they wouldn't have won all of them either.

 

[KareemTrustfund]

You don't actually think he means that the NHL in 09, 16, and 17 were equivalent to the DPE, right?

Because I suspect that McDavid would have been able to score in the NHL in 2016 and 2017 as well. Given how he won the scoring title in 2017 and whatnot. And the scoring wasn't low in 09.

Still, it was also a hell of a lot harder to score from 09-17 than it has been since 17/18 if only for the significant goalie gear size reduction.

 

[IcedCapp]

In 2009 he had 2 assists in the finals and zero points in games 5-7, including the SC winning game.

In 2016 he had 4 assists in the finals and zero points in games 3-5. Two of his four assists in the SC winning game.

In 2017 he finally scored a goal in the finals coupled with 6 assists with zero points in the SC winning game.

Is there a reason why this propaganda floats around that he’s a dependable clutch player in the finals?

you got it, Crosby sucks. Not sure what else you want to hear when you word it this way

 

[Romang67]

Still, it was also a hell of a lot harder to score from 09-17 than it has been since 17/18 if only for the significant goalie gear size reduction.

Sure, it was harder. But the post I responded to made it sound like Crosby was out there in the DPE, while McDavid has been coasting around without a care in the world. 2009 had a scoring average very similar to 2017-2021, though not on the level of the last few years.

We're talking about two overlapping players. McDavid could score in 2016 and 2017. We know that because he won the scoring title in 2017.

But even he great Connor McDavid couldn't score a goal in games 5 6 and 7 in the finals .....gonna shit all over him eight years from now too.
Pens have 3 cups since 09. Without Sid they would have won none of those.
It's a team game ...... no more so than when going on a long play off run..

I'm not sure how this is in any way related to the post I responded to, nor to my response.

 

[Martin Elz]

I don't remember if it was in 08 or 09 (maybe both) but Zetterberg was a complete beast shutting down Sid.

But still a weird take, Sid is a player I consider clutch, the finals are more than stats. The two-pronged threat of rolling Malkin and Sid makes you have to choose which one to send out your best players against.

I say this as a Red Wings and Capitals fan, who disliked (mildly put) Sid when he came into the league. But that dislike has grown into respect and admiration.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Instead of just shitting on this obviously agenda driven, shitty thread, I'll instead bring up stats for other players that have had 3 cup finals and show how they've done:

Crosby: 4 goals and 20 points in 25 games
Malkin: 8 goals and 18 points in 25 games
Toews: 3 goals and 11 points in 18 games
Kane: 7 goals and 16 points in 18 games
Kucherov: 6 goals and 20 points in 23 games
Bergeron: 7 goals and 13 points in 20 games

So basically, the only player that has a notably higher pace than Crosby is Kane, who's a winger and doesn't carry the same defensive responsibilities that a center has. With that said, I also think Kane has a reputation of being a big game player as well that is totally warranted.

The reason these thoughts are bad is because they never take the time to actually compare how other players do relative to Crosby, and instead just say "Crosby only has a .8 PPG in the finals!" without any context.

I don't remember if it was in 08 or 09 (maybe both) but Zetterberg was a complete beast shutting down Sid.

Zetterberg is actually a guy people should be mentioning as a legit cup finals performer. While I was looking at the numbers in this post, I found that Zetterberg has 12 points in 13 finals games while also being a menace defensively.

He was a significantly better performer in the finals than Datsyuk.

 

[GMR]

Ridiculous.
Try watching the Cup Runs.

I watched the first two very closely. He was underwhelming. In fairness, he was still in his early 20’s and before his prime. The counter argument to that is he put up big numbers in the other playoff rounds in 2008 and 2009.

The Finals in 2008 and 2009 were not high scoring shootouts. They were defensive games. Boring by modern standards. In the earlier playoff rounds Crosby faced easier opposition which didn’t play the same type of defensive game.

 

[Romang67]

Zetterberg is actually a guy people should be mentioning as a legit cup finals performer. While I was looking at the numbers in this post, I found that Zetterberg has 12 points in 13 finals games while also being a menace defensively.

He was a significantly better performer in the finals than Datsyuk.

Zetterberg is a criminally underrated player in general.

 

[SirKillalot]

Zetterberg is actually a guy people should be mentioning as a legit cup finals performer. While I was looking at the numbers in this post, I found that Zetterberg has 12 points in 13 finals games while also being a menace defensively.

He was a significantly better performer in the finals than Datsyuk.

He won Conn Smythe for a reason.
To be a little fair to Datsyuk, one finals he was a young guy on a stacked team in 2002, in 2008 they were the "Euro twins" + 1A and 1B and there was a plan in regards to who did what. As you mention Zetterberg won it because of the defence aspect as some clutch highlighted involvements. I think its the only year one can say Datsyuk although not that he was bad or anything, one expected more offense out of him that year.

In 2009 he was playing injured at least in the last two rounds, don't remember exactly when it was sustained, but played only 2 conference finals matches and 3 finals matches. Was two injuries where one was the ankle and the other was a muscle spasm injury which was worse.
That being said, Zetterberg did have a better 2nd round than him that year as well.

 

[PaulD]

Instead of just shitting on this obviously agenda driven, shitty thread, I'll instead bring up stats for other players that have had 3 cup finals and show how they've done:

Crosby: 4 goals and 20 points in 25 games
Malkin: 8 goals and 18 points in 25 games
Toews: 3 goals and 11 points in 18 games
Kane: 7 goals and 16 points in 18 games
Kucherov: 6 goals and 20 points in 23 games
Bergeron: 7 goals and 13 points in 20 games

So basically, the only player that has a notably higher pace than Crosby is Kane, who's a winger and doesn't carry the same defensive responsibilities that a center has. With that said, I also think Kane has a reputation of being a big game player as well that is totally warranted.

The reason these thoughts are bad is because they never take the time to actually compare how other players do relative to Crosby, and instead just say "Crosby only has a .8 PPG in the finals!" without any context.



Zetterberg is actually a guy people should be mentioning as a legit cup finals performer. While I was looking at the numbers in this post, I found that Zetterberg has 12 points in 13 finals games while also being a menace defensively.

He was a significantly better performer in the finals than Datsyuk.

Both were dominant. Yes

I watched the first two very closely. He was underwhelming. In fairness, he was still in his early 20’s and before his prime. The counter argument to that is he put up big numbers in the other playoff rounds in 2008 and 2009.

The Finals in 2008 and 2009 were not high scoring shootouts. They were defensive games. Boring by modern standards. In the earlier playoff rounds Crosby faced easier opposition which didn’t play the same type of defensive game.

yea, sure

 

[FissionFire]

Crosby rides a lot of hype from his Olympic OT winner. In the SCF he’s actually been fairly underwhelming. I believe Malkin has actually been a better producer in the Finals and more clutch but I haven’t seen the stats in awhile to verify it.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He won Conn Smythe for a reason.
To be a little fair to Datsyuk, one finals he was a young guy on a stacked team in 2002, in 2008 they were the "Euro twins" + 1A and 1B and there was a plan in regards to who did what. As you mention Zetterberg won it because of the defence aspect as some clutch highlighted involvements. I think its the only year one can say Datsyuk although not that he was bad or anything, one expected more offense out of him that year.

In 2009 he was playing injured at least in the last two rounds, don't remember exactly when it was sustained, but played only 2 conference finals matches and 3 finals matches. Was two injuries where one was the ankle and the other was a muscle spasm injury which was worse.
That being said, Zetterberg did have a better 2nd round than him that year as well.

Yeah I was actually tempted to include Datsyuk in that comparison as well because he did also have 3 finals appearances, but it felt super disingenuous to include him with his 2002 stat line as a bottom-6 forward. It just wasn't an apples to apples comparison so I thought it was unfair to include him.

But even taking that out, Zetterberg was downright dominant in both 2008 and 2009 and I don't think Datsyuk even matched that when healthy in 2008.

 

[Coffee]

Even Midnight has never made a thread like this before