Why haven't we seen another Eric Lindros?

[WarriorofTime]

As the NHL expands and if other cultures are able to have accessibility/affordability, I would wager the chances of another one like him coming down the road will increase to likelihood...but Big E was a unique specimen.

Weren't kids at hitting at like U9 in Lindros's day? Most of the push now is to delay hitting as long as possible, usually right before players are stepping into Juniors. You're gonna see more McDavids, less Lindroses accordingly.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

That's a good one actually. I recall a shift.... it might have been the first shift ever in winnipeg 2.0. He just came out and obliterated everyone physically.

The guy was definitely built different.

I always remember Buff going into the corner with Pronger in 2010 Cup finals and absolutely destroying him. He threw Pronger into the boards like a ragdoll.

The difference though is that Lindros was twice (or more) the skater and had actual elite hockey skills.

I think that Lindros exemplified the DPE to me. GM's were all looking for the next EL because the big players could better handle the continual interference and physical play.

 

[BLNY]

This is ridiculous. Eric Lindros without hockey IQ was Brett Lindros. You can't say that a guy who is top 10 all time fastest to 600 points isn't high IQ.

Fastest to reach milestones from 100 points to 2000 points

Did this project (with some help) a while back on another forum to collect the complete lists of players reaching 100 point, 200 point etc. milestones while being atleast PPG pace at the milestone. Former NHL records are indicated by * and the date (day.month.year) when the milestone was...

forums.hfboards.com

Look at the HF thread above. The stories and myths are absurd because his peak was absurd (albeit short). Lindros collecting points while playing the way he did in his first 500 or so NHL games while never being fully healthy was just nuts. That being said, there's a bunch of guys who were the same and are on that list even though they too were never at 100% health (ie: Crosby, Lemieux, Orr etc.) so maybe that's just par for the course.

Based on your Jagr mention, Jagr begins to surge past Lindros at around the 800 point mark due to him maintaining a high calibre of play throughout his career and the unreal longevity/health/fitness he had in his late career.

Lindros real accomplishments cement him up there as one of the best to ever play the game. That's objective. There's no myth to that. It's not projections.

Lindros wasn't just a big boy in a first overall package. He had even more. Top 5 strength for all guys who have ever played the game. Top 5 meanness and nastiness than all guys who have ever played the game without being considered a head hunter or lunatic that liked hurting people.

Byfuglien's physical dominance mention was a good one. Big Buff is the last guy in recent memory that was big and strong enough to occasionally go around rag dolling multiple people like Lindros did. But he didn't have the same mean streak and hockey skill set as Lindros.

Pronger IIRC is up there for dominating skills, size and mean streak. But I don't recall Pronger having the same strength as Buff and Lindros to rag doll dudes in the same way. I remember when I was younger thinking that Eric's stick mechanics looked weird. I double checked the other night and it's just weird to see some of his shots look like they have baseball or tennis swing mechanics mixed in. The strength was unreal.

As mentioned by another poster, few shed tears when his career ended. He was an absolute monster plain and simple. Reread the comments and many previous threads. Lots of the descriptions of Eric Lindros aren't celebrations of his dominance. It's more like campfire stories of a monstrous beast unleashed upon the league that terrorized their favourite teams and players. There's certainly a lot of intrigue as time goes on, but honestly speaking, I think most non-Flyer fans that remember him are kinda glad he's gone and another has not shown up and may never show up.

I appreciate your effort to sway. I don't love or hate Eric. My assessment has nothing to do with the Nords or the mess that was the trade.

 

[SirKillalot]

As some mentioned. Ryan Getzlaf in his younger years and Todd Bertuzzi comes to mind as players with some similarities to Lindros, if they were a combined player maybe get close, but still not the same. Bertuzzi is probably the closest individual player to do so but not to the same degree.

There is a reason why him and his line were called:
Legion of Doom

John LeClair being his linemate was in the ballpark.
Keith Tkachuk and now Matthew and Brady. Brendan Shanahan. Jarome Iginla, a young Rick Nash, Milan Lucic, Corey Perry, Tom Wilson as mentioned.
There has been other bigger forwards with shorter stints of dominance / getting hot at times.
Johan Franzen has short stints, not the same bruising physicality over time though.
Josh Anderson probably had the potential of going there but didn't get the high numbers over time.

Why not now? Game is faster, most players leaner. Takes a specific natural build to keep up being big and physical over time.

 

[Cats2TheCup]

Because Sasha Barkov is not violent.

 

[Section 104]

As an old fogey I don’t think the NFL has had another running back as great as Jim Brown since he retired it in 1966. You have had great ones but once Brown got past the line scrimmage, it was like a bowling ball knocking down pins. Unstoppable by one man.

Perhaps in the 25-30 years since Lindros came into the league, other players have upped their game in training, strength, studying film so that while Lindros (and Brown) would still be top..best in their class but not quite as dominant

 

[Toby91ca]

The hype was crazy for lindros at the time partly because he really was a unicorn.

Totally agree. I can 100% say the hype around Lindros was greater than anyone I have ever seen in my life. I'm not old enough to remember Gretzky coming into the league....and probably old enough for Lemieux, but coverage different then vs. now.

Fair to say overrated due to the way things turned out.....but his abilities were real, there is no doubt.....this isn't just hype around an 18 year, where you are guessing and the player never turned into what you thought. For him, he was scary good. If he could have stayed healthy it would have been a different story. It's not just being a big/physical + skilled guys....those exist. Ovechkin has been brought up a few times here, but he's really not a great comparison. Physical guy that can score, yes, but not the same type of player. Lindros was bigger and more physical and I agree that the side of his game with the puck on his stick I guess you could look at Malkin.....seems like he had softer hands, not necessarily better skillset, just different.

Others have mentioned, he really was a unicorn, you see a lot of big guys that come in and are able to be very successful and score a lot because of their size....he had the size, but had the hands and skating that people that size typically don't have....he had the skill to succeed without his size and adding his size he was simply a scary good player....unfortunately he never really reached the level people thought because of injuries....which basically stared day 1

 

[Nineteen67]

There are guys like Tom Wilson, who are good, but don’t have close to the same skill set.

 

[Toby91ca]

There was a few solid hits, but most of that was a terrible montage.

Agreed....not the greatest video....but I will say, the 5-10 seconds starting at 1:10 I believe is one of my favourite hockey hits moments.

 

[Nineteen67]

Lindros was a product of his era. Today, hockey players are encouraged to emphasize speed and skill. Many players in the league today wouldn't have made it in the 80s and 90s.

This….And vice-versa

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

 

[KevinRedkey]

For those who didn't see Lindros play, he was nasty/mean and dominant on the ice like Tom Wilson but skilled like Malkin/Matthews.

A mix of Wilson and Malkin is a pretty good comp tbh.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Like others said, Ovechkin is the Winger/improved version of Lindros, with an even better shot

 

[Oneiro]

This is ridiculous. Eric Lindros without hockey IQ was Brett Lindros. You can't say that a guy who is top 10 all time fastest to 600 points isn't high IQ.

Fastest to reach milestones from 100 points to 2000 points

Did this project (with some help) a while back on another forum to collect the complete lists of players reaching 100 point, 200 point etc. milestones while being atleast PPG pace at the milestone. Former NHL records are indicated by * and the date (day.month.year) when the milestone was...

forums.hfboards.com

Look at the HF thread above. The stories and myths are absurd because his peak was absurd (albeit short). Lindros collecting points while playing the way he did in his first 500 or so NHL games while never being fully healthy was just nuts. That being said, there's a bunch of guys who were the same and are on that list even though they too were never at 100% health (ie: Crosby, Lemieux, Orr etc.) so maybe that's just par for the course.

Based on your Jagr mention, Jagr begins to surge past Lindros at around the 800 point mark due to him maintaining a high calibre of play throughout his career and the unreal longevity/health/fitness he had in his late career.

Lindros real accomplishments cement him up there as one of the best to ever play the game. That's objective. There's no myth to that. It's not projections.

Lindros wasn't just a big boy in a first overall package. He had even more. Top 5 strength for all guys who have ever played the game. Top 5 meanness and nastiness than all guys who have ever played the game without being considered a head hunter or lunatic that liked hurting people.

Byfuglien's physical dominance mention was a good one. Big Buff is the last guy in recent memory that was big and strong enough to occasionally go around rag dolling multiple people like Lindros did. But he didn't have the same mean streak and hockey skill set as Lindros.

Pronger IIRC is up there for dominating skills, size and mean streak. But I don't recall Pronger having the same strength as Buff and Lindros to rag doll dudes in the same way. I remember when I was younger thinking that Eric's stick mechanics looked weird. I double checked the other night and it's just weird to see some of his shots look like they have baseball or tennis swing mechanics mixed in. The strength was unreal.

As mentioned by another poster, few shed tears when his career ended. He was an absolute monster plain and simple. Reread the comments and many previous threads. Lots of the descriptions of Eric Lindros aren't celebrations of his dominance. It's more like campfire stories of a monstrous beast unleashed upon the league that terrorized their favourite teams and players. There's certainly a lot of intrigue as time goes on, but honestly speaking, I think most non-Flyer fans that remember him are kinda glad he's gone and another has not shown up and may never show up.

Watched every year of Lindros' career. He was a top 5 player in his prime, unique package, high IQ yes, but not even in the building of Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux or McDavid.

His peak year of 115 pts in a little over 70 games, a 30 year old Lemieux scored 160 pts and Jagr put up 140+ as well. If his pace as a Flyer is viewed as statistically amazing, then Jagr and Kucherov must be the same level of player. It's a flimsy argument. Or the year before, where once again, Jagr did the same thing.

He absolutely was a cheapshot artist and an asshole who got what he deserved. His legacy is largely anecdotal as your paragraphs of hyperbole attest and again I watched it - it is overstated and not even close to what Mario accomplished. It's just a story that meant nothing in the W column. No one cares about strength or narratives - they care about winning and scoring. Neither of which he did enough of over the span of his career.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

If I knew nothing about Lindros and simply watched this video, I'd think he was a total bitch who just liked shoving his hands in faces and pushing people down.

There was a few solid hits, but most of that was a terrible montage.

I mean, Lindros was a total bitch. Dude was an asshole and the moment he got any pushback he acted/pouted like a toddler that was told he needed to finish his greens before getting dessert.

All be it, a 6'4, 240lb toddler.

 

[S E P H]

Never watched Lindros play, but is Malkin the closest thing today?

Malkin was a lot like Jagr where they used their physicality to protect the puck, but never were a bully. Draisaitl is similar in the way to these two players, but I admit he has a bit of a mean streak to his game.

Although Malkin is/was undeniably a physical player, nobody was ever afraid of Malkin's physical play. Lindros ... ya, he was scary.

Closest player currently is Brady. Great player, but not all that close to Lindros.

OP is onto something here.

Brady is a good shout, but how MacKinnon plays by having a bulldog mentality and destroying dudes 1v1 is very Lindros-esque, however, he clearly doesn't have the physical acclaim as Eric had.

That's what I am saying, we haven't seen another ML66 or EL88 ever since their retirement. These blokes could not only be generational players, but maybe beyond that and be once-in-50 or 100-year unicorns.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Like others said, Ovechkin is the Winger/improved version of Lindros, with an even better shot

Ya, it wasn’t until his 10th year in the league or somethin that I recall seeing him on the worser end of a hit. Up ‘till then he’d won every physical confrontation I’d seen, and there were lots of ‘em. Absolute bull in a China shop until age 30 or so.

Anyways,
1) I think it’s tougher to be coordinated when you’re heavier and taller.
2) You have more sports options when you’re big. I don’t think it’s really a conscious thing, but if it’s lookin like you’ll be 6’4” and you’re super athletic you might enjoy success in basketball more. If you like to eat, hey football needs big dudes. Again, I don’t think guys decide on that, it’s more just where your body leads you to. The 6’4” heavy dudes might experience success in other sports (baseball for sure), whereas with hockey and soccer the coordination might not be easy and the payoff not as big just for being.. well, big.

 

[S E P H]

The stories and myths around Lindros are absurd.

He was just big boy genetics attached to the typical first overall package. Not close to generational at all. If that's the case, then Jagr must be generational too (he's not).

Jagr is generational lol. Nobody finishes in the top 3 scoring of all time and is not generational.

 

[Masked]

If I knew nothing about Lindros and simply watched this video, I'd think he was a total bitch who just liked shoving his hands in faces and pushing people down.

There was a few solid hits, but most of that was a terrible montage.

They left out a lot of his bigger hits, like this one....



Notice how he destroyed Dackell and no one jumped him. There were very few guys in the league who would do that unlike now when anyone throwing a hit like that will get swarmed.

 

[S E P H]

Lindros was a product of his era. Today, hockey players are encouraged to emphasize speed and skill. Many players in the league today wouldn't have made it in the 80s and 90s.

If Lindros was in today's NHL, he would be up there with McDavid, MacKinnon, and Kucherov for Hart/Art Ross easily.

 

[AvroArrow]

Never watched Lindros play, but is Malkin the closest thing today?

Physicality of Chara
Skills like Lemieux

Comparing him to Malkin is disrespectful tbh. He was a true power forward with generational skills

 

[RickyLafleur]

I mean Lindros was amazing, but I had never seen a player like Ovechkin before either, who was/is a pretty big and heavy player.

This is the answer.

 

[frontsfan67]

Not to put big expectations on a 16 year old kid however Ethan Belchetz may be a modern day lindros in the future or closest we could see to Lindros. Has great size 6’5 230 and clearly pretty skilled too- had 4 goals and 2 assists in a game earlier this year in the OHL

 

[Dutronc]

I would say Ovechkin in his prime was both skilled and physical at the highest level

Just ask Joe Drouin.

 

[eXile3]

If Lindros was in today's NHL, he would be up there with McDavid, MacKinnon, and Kucherov for Hart/Art Ross easily.

lol. He wasn’t even that caliber when he played. Everyone one of those players mentioned won at least one scoring title. Lindros has zero Art Ross and 3 top tens. He tied Jagr once but never competed with Mario, Gretzky, or Jagr for much of anything.

As others have said the league has changed. Teams realized it was much more efficient to poke check or strip the puck. That’s not saying Lindros wouldn’t be a top player today, he would. He just wouldn’t be McDavid or Kucherov good.