Speculation: Why didn't Rasmus Sandin cut it as a Leaf?

[Mugzy97]

IMO he did great for his age and developed well. Some guys don’t get in the NHL as quickly as he did but he held his own. He was never going to be a Reilly level player because of his skating and we were very heavy on LHD so we traded him for market value.

 

[Its not your fault]

Because Dubas' regimen had absolutely zero idea whatsoever on how to properly develop defensemen.

At some point the players gotta want to get better.

 

[ULF_55]

Not really, but the design approach to this D corps in terms of type of defenseman has flip flopped a little. We need toughness. We need offense. We need...we need...

Of course we never have much money to spend on it so I guess we get what we pay for in a lot of ways.


Point with Sandin was he wasn't what we thought we needed when we thought we needed it, and became a trade chip.

If you're playing behind Rielly you have to be a defensive d-man.
Rielly
Sandin
That's a pretty leaky couple of defenders.

They went overboard at the deadline to try and fix it:

 

[GardinerTheForward]

Slow but Too small to be a net clearing stay at home type

 

[Fogelhund]

If you are going to be a smaller d man, who lacks range, or physicality, you have to skate well enough to maintain your positioning. He just isn't fast enough to maintain that positioning. Solid offensive player though.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Too many negatives for a defenseman
- Wasn't fast
- Wasn't big or physical enough
- Struggled defensively
- Seeking a big pay raise

None of the above are suitable for top 4 minutes on the leafs

 

[SnizzNasty88]

He didn’t cut it with the Leafs cause he f***in sucks, just like the absolute pathetic excuse of a GM who drafted him, plain and simple.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Because Dubas' regimen had absolutely zero idea whatsoever on how to properly develop defensemen.

They turned Holl into an NHL dman when he was an ECHL level player. They developed Dermontt into an NHL player, Sandin and Liljegren are top 4 Dman in the NHL. Dubas was in charge for 6 years and they developed 4 NHL dmen. The fact that all 4 have not developed in the next Salming is on the talent of the player not the development. They also drafted Durzi who is a top 4 dman and have had 2 more appear in NHL games. The narrative that they cannot draft Dmen or develop them is not valid.

Sandin's issues for development are Skating both in line speed and quickness, roster composition, and coaching deployment. You can decide in what order that they should be in. He really is not that great in Washington for 5 million a year.

 

[barilko05]

I put a lot of blame for our current prospect situation on Hunter. The 2016 and 17 drafts were a disaster. 14 picks...half of which were D...of which only one has even played 1 NHL game. Liljgren. Ok...2...Keaton Middleton played 3...for Colorado. 4 years ago. If D are supposed to take 5 or 6 years to really develop, then at least some of those guys should have at least had a cup of coffee in the show by now. Nada. And of the other picks, Woll and Grundstrom are the only currently active players. Oh...except for this one other guy...Matthews? He's pretty good, I guess...

 

[Lightsol]

Keefe is real bad at developing young guys at the NHL level. But besides that, Sandin’s lack of speed, small size, and poor defensive game were always going to hold him back. Even before Dubas traded him, I don’t think he’d have lasted long under Treliving.

Could Sandin have succeeded here? Maybe, but he’d have to be the modern day Marc-Andre Bergeron and that’s a real waste of a roster spot. Especially on this team when you’ve got Rielly and Liljegren who are both capable PP QBs. Not to mention the Leafs have found three veteran offensive defensemen over the last three seasons (Gustafsson, Klingberg, OEL) who bring all that Sandin brings and come with size, a bit of snarl, and at least two of them had/have better defensive games.

Sandin had a great opportunity his last year in Toronto to make the big team; the Leafs only had Reilly and an aging Mark Giordano, but instead he whined about scratches and ice time, ended up getting injured, and then the Leafs dealt for McCabe. At that point, the writing was on the wall.

 

[RoadWarrior]

Too slow relative to his size. Puck handling and shooting was great but the skating just wasn’t there and he didn’t show any improvement.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Leafs dont kno how to draft and develop d

sshould talk to nashivile or somethin

 

[TheBeastCoast]

We went on a run of targeting small to average sized defensemen whose tools weren't loud enough to overcome their lack of size. For Sandin to be a great player in this league his skating needed to be plus plus....and it isn't and never will be.

 

[IPS]

Sandin and Liljegren are top 4 Dman in the NHL.

I must have really missed the memo on this one.

Liljegren has NEVER been a top-4 D on this team and Sandin only cracked the top-4 on a terrible Washington defense.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I put a lot of blame for our current prospect situation on Hunter. The 2016 and 17 drafts were a disaster. 14 picks...half of which were D...of which only one has even played 1 NHL game. Liljgren. Ok...2...Keaton Middleton played 3...for Colorado. 4 years ago. If D are supposed to take 5 or 6 years to really develop, then at least some of those guys should have at least had a cup of coffee in the show by now. Nada. And of the other picks, Woll and Grundstrom are the only currently active players. Oh...except for this one other guy...Matthews? He's pretty good, I guess...

You missed Dermontt he was drafted when Hunter was head of scouting. Marner was drafted while Hunter was head of scouting but that was only after reported fron office struggle where Hunter and Babcock wanted Hanifin.
In the 3 drafts Hunter was head of scouting the Leafs drafted 27 players and 5 have played over 100 games. Another 5 played some games in the NHL. a hit rate of approx 20%. Not so great.

 

[LeafSteel]

I think Sandin did an excellent job turning into Easton Cowan.

Best thing he ever did as a Leaf!

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

I must have really missed the memo on this one.

Liljegren has NEVER been a top-4 D on this team and Sandin only cracked the top-4 on a terrible Washington defense.

Might want to recheck his minutes last season.
As you said Sandin is playing top 4 minutes.

 

[Leafidelity]

Skating never developed to a high enough level. You cant show what you can do if you cant keep up.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Leafs dont kno how to draft and develop d

sshould talk to nashivile or somethin

Maybe they already have. Since 2014 both teams have drafted almost the exact same number of players and they both have 13 players drafted that have played over 100 games in the NHL or will have played 100 games in the NHL before this season ends. I did not include players like Woll.

In comparision the team that everyone has said is the best drafting team in the NHL has only drafted 9 players to play 100 games in that time frame and I have included Stankoven.

Just another false negative people throw out regarding the Leafs.

 

[IPS]

Might want to recheck his minutes last season.
As you said Sandin is playing top 4 minutes.

Alright I stand corrected, Lilly took over a top-4 role after the Klingberg injury. Was he very good at it? Definitely not, but we'll give you that one.

 

[mapleleaf979]

Sandin has very poor acceleration, very poor defending the cycle and forecheck. Looking back starting with Hunter, he didnt address the right side d with an early picks except Liljegren but that was his 3rd draft. In 2015 the Leafs had no right dmen, no size either on the backend. Too choose Dermott when Gardiner and Reilly were there didnt make sense, Brandon Carlo a 6-5 right shot dman with from the usntp didnt fit a need? Korshkov a 22 yr old undrafted player in 2016, early second round pick didnt make sense either. The drafting of Ben Danford makes sense, right shot defense first guy it fits a need, this should have been the focus of every draft starting in 2017. 2020 they over looked Braden Schneider a big right shot dman. Leafs now are half way thru with these guys and alot of wasted picks, traded picks have hurt this teams progress.

 

[AvroArrow]

His skating was a problem, he was directly responsible for 1 playoff loss vs Montreal, arguably 2. It's a team game, but his lack of foot speed was embarrassing and unacceptable. I think we should have gave him more time, he has a solid shot and hits like a truck but Dubas was all about speed, transition and puck possession. Sandin's skillset didn't really fit in with that.

 

[Dreakmur]

At some point the players gotta want to get better.

That was likely Sandin’s issue. I know one particular member of the Leafs development team struggled with him because he didn’t think he needed to get improve areas of his game. They tried to help him, but his attitude was horrific.

 

[Buds17]

He had a ceiling on this team as an offensive defenceman. Just have to hope that the trade return will pay greater dividends for the team going forward.

 

[BobClarkesfrontteeth]

Alright I stand corrected, Lilly took over a top-4 role after the Klingberg injury. Was he very good at it? Definitely not, but we'll give you that one.

He was good at it. He won his minutes by every stistical measure, averaged 2 blocks a game and 2 hits a game. Was he an all star? Not even close. He was an average number 4. The problem is everyone is expecting him to be Maker and Shea Weber all rolled into one. He is who he is. An average 2nd pair dman.