OT: Why did we treat Larry Murphy so bad?

[daveleaf]

I suspect a lot of people answering in this thread weren't actually old enough to watch Larry Murphy's tenure with the Maple Leafs, because these descriptions of his constant give aways, error prone play and slow footwork leaving him out of position don't reflect the truth.

Murphy didn't play fantastic in Toronto, but he was far from awful and certainly wasn't - at any time - the worst defender on the ice for the Maple Leafs. Part of the issue, too, was that Maple Leaf fans weren't really aware of what kind of player they had. There's a portion of "Leaf Nation" that are known to be "Leaf" fans but not really "Hockey" fans, meaning, players that play in other cities around the league they're not too educated about. When Cliff Fletcher acquired Larry Murphy, it was after the Hawks had ousted them from the playoffs, in large part due to the excellent defensive combo of Gary Suter and Chris Chelios. When Fletcher acquired Murphy, he cited Chelios and Suter and said he wanted to bring in a top line defender. Many Leaf fans took this to mean they had acquired a player of that ilk. Both those men had a nasty streak and the ability to lug the puck. This was not Larry Murphy at all.

The fans miscast his role and so, sadly, did his coach. His biggest downfall during his time in Blue & White can be attributed to idiotic coaching from Mike Murphy.

Throughout Larry Murphy's Hall of Fame career he was known as an elite puck mover and an excellent decision maker. At no point in his career, even in his youth, was Murphy fleet footed, so clearly, the organization was keenly aware of that when they acquired him. However, Mike Murphy, inexplicably, has him carrying the puck more then he ever had at any point in his career, often with mixed and some times horrible results. Murphy was a great passer, but above all, he was excellent in terms of positioning. He was one of the smarter defenders of his era, and he was acutely aware of his limitations so he would always position himself very carefully to limit this. Mike Murphy - for reasons unknown - threw all of this out the window and designed a system that saw the Leaf defense - which wasn't exactly mobile - wheel with the puck.

Also, when Murphy was at his best, he formed excellent partnerships with solid defensive guys (Ulf Samuellson in Pittsburgh and Nick Lidstrom in Detroit) Mike Murphy - again, quite stupidly - didn't follow the blueprint that worked so well in Pittsburgh.

The fans turning on him, in my opinion, was really quite stupid. He was far from the worst player on the ice, and too many of the fans in the building were unaware that Larry Murphy was being horribly misused and instead deduced he was "washed up." Obviously, Scotty Bowman in Detroit could clearly see the issue was him being miscast and was able to essentially take him for free, drop him intro the first pairing on a elite team and watched him pick up two Stanley Cup rings and post back to back 52 point seasons.

I was old enough and basically what I said. Poor personnel decisions and poor coaching. Larry was not a bad player, in fact a very good player.

 

[Joey24]

He was the highest paid, by far, player on a miserable team, he became the whipping boy as a symbol of the fans frustration with the team in general. Pretty much the same as McCabe. And Schneider. He wasn't terrible here, surely didn't play as well as he could, lots of turnovers, sure, but he was far from bad. Also not the rough and tumble type of D-man we like here in T.O. in general, that didn't help him.


When people drone on about the Kessel trade being real bad, and then eventually someone chimes in saying no no, the Rask trade is the worst trade ever, smile to yourself and remember that neither is anywhere close to as bad as the Murphy trade.

It also didn't help that when ever he stepped onto the ice he was booed, heckled on the bench and when ever he touched the puck the whole place erupted on him. It's no wonder he had so many turn overs. I never really understood the whole thing as to why things got as bad as they did here for the guy anyone who though McCabe was treated poorly didn't watch through the Larry Murphy era. Was one of the worst times I can remember when Murphy got out of Toronto the guy looked so relived and I said to my friends he's gonna make the leafs look dumb for the way they used him and the way the fans acted like meat heads.

 

[Thee Attack]

I always liked Schneider

 

[WoratCase*]

Bite your tongue, Todd Gill was a rock for us. He means Hal Gill.

Giveaway Gill = Todd Gill.

Murphy was slow and on such a bad team, he looked worse.

 

[Squiffy]

Giveaway Gill = Todd Gill.

Murphy was slow and on such a bad team, he looked worse.

And I still say Gill was a rock, I know the nickname.

 

[mooseOAK*]

This is absolute nonense.

Then-Penguins GM Craig Patrick, out of respect to Larry Murphy (who had just been named a 2nd Team All-Star, but needed to be moved for budgetary reasons) consulted him before trading him that summer and Larry picked Toronto as a destination (he's from the area) and Larry signed a contract with Toronto to extend his stay.

Then he went out and posted 61 points, a total that one Leaf defender has matched since.

That's nice but the Leafs were the 3rd worst team in the league the second season.

 

[arrbez]

That's nice but the Leafs were the 3rd worst team in the league the second season.

Even if that were true (it's not), what does it have to do with FerrisRox completely shooting down your uninformed comment?

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

He was misused greatly by a bad NHL coach (Mike Murphy) who didn't like him personally apparently. It's tough to expect fans to be so sophisticated to recognize why a player is playing poorly. They can just recognize a player playing poorly.

However, this is a perfect example of why no player should ever be booed. A player may be playing poorly but he may be trying to cover up for inferior team mates or trying to play through a chronic injury or any one of many things.

There's your answer. An incompetent coach who had no idea how to use him. No different than Kaberle in Boston. Put him with a coach who understands the concept of how to utilize his strengths and minimize his weaknesses and he'll look great. Unfortunately some coaches prefer to beat square pegs into round holes.

 

[ULF_55]

Murphy didn't play fantastic in Toronto, but he was far from awful and certainly wasn't - at any time - the worst defender on the ice for the Maple Leafs. Part of the issue, too, was that Maple Leaf fans weren't really aware of what kind of player they had.

Murphy was horribly misused.

He was slow, soft and error prone.

He was caught out of position because he was used in too many situations he wasn't suited for.

He went to Detroit where he didn't have to do anything except provide support to their best defenders.

 

[zeke]

Murphy WAS one of detroit's best defenders. Their #2, in fact.

1998-99 (Murphy was 37 years old)

1) Lidstrom: 26:31
2) Murphy: 24:15
3) Chelios: 22:21
4) Krupp: 21:23
5) Gill: 18:45
6) Macoun: 17:30

 

[Jumptheshark]

I think Bourque would have looked bad on the leafs during this era--Murphy was good but not flashy and because he was so highly paid--people wanted more. Murphy also was not good in his own zone

 

[mooseOAK*]

Even if that were true (it's not), what does it have to do with FerrisRox completely shooting down your uninformed comment?

The irony of calling someone uninformed while making an uninformed comment immediately preceding.

Murphy played poorly. Murphy was the highest paid player on the Leafs. The fans booed him. I saw it.

 

[daveleaf]

The irony of calling someone uninformed while making an uninformed comment immediately preceding.

Murphy played poorly. Murphy was the highest paid player on the Leafs. The fans booed him. I saw it.

It was a combination of things Moose. Larry was still a very servicable player but misused by the Leafs. The franchise tanked once they started to reach for too much veteran talent such as the second coming of Clark and Muller. Murph looked good on Det because they had a system for forward to back check to help their aging D. Seemed to work well for them.

 

[mooseOAK*]

It was a combination of things Moose. Larry was still a very servicable player but misused by the Leafs. The franchise tanked once they started to reach for too much veteran talent such as the second coming of Clark and Muller. Murph looked good on Det because they had a system for forward to back check to help their aging D. Seemed to work well for them.

I keep reading this misused comment but the Leafs got absolutely nothing for Murphy and had to pay part of his salary for Detroit to take him. That tells me that Toronto fans had many people agreeing with them.

 

[FerrisRox]

That's nice but the Leafs were the 3rd worst team in the league the second season.

So you are now revising your claim and saying that in the second season Larry Murphy didn't want to be there?

 

[zeke]

The red wings didn't agree. Neither did the hall of fame.

 

[FerrisRox]

He went to Detroit where he didn't have to do anything except provide support to their best defenders.

This is revisionist history. He did a lot more then "provide support to their best defenders." You can play down his contribution but the reality is he stepped into the #1 pair on a back-to-back Cup Champion winning roster.

 

[Sensorglitch]

I think FerrisRox hit it on te head. I remember when Larry Murphy played for Toronto. People booed him the player who had 61 points, and worshipped Dmitri Yushkevich, the player who was a -14. Mostly because they expected him to be Ray Bourque, Bryan Leetch, Chris Chelios, and Paul Coffey combined into one.

Also because Leafs Nation is absolutely ridiculous sometimes. I mean seriously, look at his 1995 stats. 12 Goals 49 Assists and people are saying he was a bad player. If you transposed those numbers into last season he would have been #3 overall in terms of defencemen.... Right.. horrible player..

 

[ULF_55]

This is revisionist history. He did a lot more then "provide support to their best defenders." You can play down his contribution but the reality is he stepped into the #1 pair on a back-to-back Cup Champion winning roster.

Lidstrom in his prime, along with a Hall of Fame cast certainly, Murphy was able to play better there. Heck, Lebda last year was able to play there and earn a contract 13 years later.

Murphy was an offensive defenseman who (as people who were there noted) was painful to watch trying to play a complete defender's role in Toronto. He was in over his head in Toronto, no thanks to unreasonable expectations. He wasn't good in Toronto period.

I'm sure coaching played a huge role in both Toronto and Detroit.

 

[mooseOAK*]

I think FerrisRox hit it on te head. I remember when Larry Murphy played for Toronto. People booed him the player who had 61 points, and worshipped Dmitri Yushkevich, the player who was a -14. Mostly because they expected him to be Ray Bourque, Bryan Leetch, Chris Chelios, and Paul Coffey combined into one.

Also because Leafs Nation is absolutely ridiculous sometimes. I mean seriously, look at his 1995 stats. 12 Goals 49 Assists and people are saying he was a bad player. If you transposed those numbers into last season he would have been #3 overall in terms of defencemen.... Right.. horrible player..

I'm pretty sure that on any team if the highest paid player was sucking as badly as Murphy was the fans would give him a hard time.

1997 is the year we are discussing by the way.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm pretty sure that on any team if the highest paid player was sucking as badly as Murphy was the fans would give him a hard time.

1997 is the year we are discussing by the way.

1995-96 and 1996-97

 

[ULF_55]

1995-96 and 1996-97

He was traded in 97 for considerations. Wonder if he had a NTC, to be forced to give a player away ... not exactly holding much value there.

Leafs were okay in 96, but they did get stupid with the nostalgia trades late in the season. Kenny Jonsson was one trade I really regretted. He had some injury problems later ... concussion I believe ... but he was such a fluid skater.

 

[Deuce Awesome]

lol He played like crap here. Guy gave the puck away so much I could of swore he played for the other team most nights.

Murphy was awful here, just brutal. Loads of Gill-like giveaways, and so slow he could never get into position after a mistake. He deserved the boos. Though the Leafs shouldn't have panic-dealt him. Whoa, what an awful trade. Detroit made out very nicely there.

Yup, thats what I remember as well.

All the people hating on Lebda this season should have seen Murph and Aki Berg here in their prime. Lebda was like Drew Doughty compared to these two.

 

[Stephen]

I think FerrisRox hit it on te head. I remember when Larry Murphy played for Toronto. People booed him the player who had 61 points, and worshipped Dmitri Yushkevich, the player who was a -14. Mostly because they expected him to be Ray Bourque, Bryan Leetch, Chris Chelios, and Paul Coffey combined into one.

Also because Leafs Nation is absolutely ridiculous sometimes. I mean seriously, look at his 1995 stats. 12 Goals 49 Assists and people are saying he was a bad player. If you transposed those numbers into last season he would have been #3 overall in terms of defencemen.... Right.. horrible player..

You're looking at stats too much. Things that usually irritate fans the most are horrible giveaways (like McCabe) and looking horrible on the ice, which Murphy demonstrated with his poor skating. Murphy generated a lot of assists, but a lot of them were of the Jason Allison variety.

 

[ACC1224]

Yup, thats what I remember as well.

All the people hating on Lebda this season should have seen Murph and Aki Berg here in their prime. Lebda was like Drew Doughty compared to these two.

There was nothing wrong with Berg.