OT: Why did we treat Larry Murphy so bad?

Silent Knight

45 RULES
Nov 6, 2010
790
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Cypress Creek
He was awful, another one that deserved bad treatment but never got it was Jamie Macoun... guy was even worse than Murphy when it came to giveaway and just plain awful meltdowns. I always hated Jamie Macoun, never understood the people who actually liked him. :rant:
 

Squiffy

Victims, rn't we all
Oct 21, 2006
14,010
3,862
Toronto
He was awful, another one that deserved bad treatment but never got it was Jamie Macoun... guy was even worse than Murphy when it came to giveaway and just plain awful meltdowns. I always hated Jamie Macoun, never understood the people who actually liked him. :rant:

He regressed heavily post strike, and I remember watching him in his last year as a Leaf thinking, "Good god, what's happened?", because he was just awful that year.. it was bad.

But he had a number of really good years here, key part of our Burns almost Cup runs, real solid defender and veteran presence. Not flashy, a minute muncher, guy you wouldn't notice on the ice nine games out of ten.

I think you're remembering the end more prominently then the contending years.
 

achtungbaby

Registered User
Oct 31, 2006
4,792
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He was the highest paid, by far, player on a miserable team, he became the whipping boy as a symbol of the fans frustration with the team in general. Pretty much the same as McCabe. And Schneider. He wasn't terrible here, surely didn't play as well as he could, lots of turnovers, sure, but he was far from bad. Also not the rough and tumble type of D-man we like here in T.O. in general, that didn't help him.


When people drone on about the Kessel trade being real bad, and then eventually someone chimes in saying no no, the Rask trade is the worst trade ever, smile to yourself and remember that neither is anywhere close to as bad as the Murphy trade.

I remember my father was seriously miffed when Larry Murphy was traded and how little, or basically nothing, it yielded. Murphy going onto to win championships frustrated him all the more. It was a solid player being run out of town with management only getting less than a penny on the dollar for him.

It would have been like having Kaberle run out of town, except Burke got solid value in return considering the circumstances.
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
36,957
leaf fans in general know nothing about evaluating defensemen or goalies.

we worship any crappy backup goalie who makes a few nice saves, and boo hall of fame defensemen out of town for turning over the puck like even every norris trophy winner does.

it's pretty hilarious, actually.
 

StarBurns RIP

No Agenda
Mar 17, 2009
5,906
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Murphy needed a partner who could cover up his weaknesses. Once Kenny Jonnson was traded all his flaws were exposed and the fans ripped him to pieces .

He was never a good all around D and was traded from team to team . He could make a good first pass and he could play on the pp but he couldn't skate and he was weak in his own zone .

It wasn't a bad deal moving him, he wasn't going to do squat here anyways .

This was it. Jonnson and Murphy were a good pairing.
 

BillyD

JUST WIN BABY
Jun 23, 2009
2,643
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It was not really about Murphy. It was about the fans. Murphy is only the most notable in a series of scapegoats, mostly on defense, who were targetted by the fans over the eyears. He did not play up to expectations here and slotted into that scapegoat role. Maybe it was the coach misusing him. Maybe the booing got to him in the end and the problems just snowballed. Maybe it just wasn't a good fit. But he wasn't anything like as bad as a lot of fans would say,obviously including some posters in this thread.

I would say it was just years of frustration seeking an outlet. Most fanbases, maybe all fanbases, have scapegoats. The size of the fanbase here and the number of years of failure just makes a universal phenomenon worse here. There will be a scapegoat indefinitely. Right now it's Komi. The year before, it almost became Schenn. If Komi is traded, it will be someone else. Yep, it's mainly about the fans.

agreed, murphy was booed largely for the same reason an elderly brad marsh who could barely move on skates by the time we got him was a fan-favourite ........ many fans are dumb, can't evaluate talent, are excited to be at a game and want to express themselves and mindlessly follow the pack when doing so
 

zeke

The Dube Abides
Mar 14, 2005
66,937
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I would say it was just years of frustration seeking an outlet. Most fanbases, maybe all fanbases, have scapegoats. The size of the fanbase here and the number of years of failure just makes a universal phenomenon worse here. There will be a scapegoat indefinitely. Right now it's Komi. The year before, it almost became Schenn. If Komi is traded, it will be someone else. Yep, it's mainly about the fans.

I disagree entirely.

Make no mistake - right now the scapegoat is Phaneuf. He is the one that is getting severely, severely underrated by leaf fans due to a handful of glaring mistakes. He is the one who reverted back to norris-trophy form in the 2nd half last year yet nobody seemed to notice.

Komi is actually the one still getting overrated by leaf fans in general - nobody seems to want to actually admit how bad he's been here, and that he can't even be trusted with bottom pair minutes. Hell, he's the one dman we have that actually managed to look WORSE once Reimer replaced Giguere.
 

leaferbeliever

Registered User
Nov 24, 2010
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8
Nova Scotia Canada
I remember being at a game where every time Murphy touched the puck he was booed..finally I stood up and asked the people in my section why they were booing him...all I got back was blank stares and shoulder shrugs. Guess it was just the "thing to do".
 

birddog*

Guest
McCabe. Komisarik. Heck last summer it was Grabovski -- until wait he's actually good. Leaf fans always need a whipping boy, someone to take their frustrations out on. Lots of frustrated Leaf fans out there. Has little to do with hockey -- in fact most fans don''t know much about it -- but the sad part is management buys into it.
 

ULF_55

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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Coach Murphy was worse than player Murphy.

Still remember one game, Leafs holding a one goal lead very late in the game and Coach Murphy puts Larry out to protect the lead.

....

If you need more explanation you just weren't there, and obviously Leafs give up 2 goals and lose.
 

The Iceman

Registered User
Sep 22, 2007
5,234
3,914
What did I expect back? I dunno, a fourth, a 9th, maybe just give him away for free?

We paid one third of the rest of a first ballot HoF's salary for Detroit to take him and win two Cups with him playing heavy minutes. He played 4 more years. We got nothing back.

I can not believe I'm on this board having people tell me that's anything but a ranking all time terrible trade.

Edit: You guys are seriously selling Mironov short too.

How high do you rate the teams 6th "D"(Mironov)?

Todd Gill was a tough honest defenseman but before and after Pat Burns he struggled.
 

StarBurns RIP

No Agenda
Mar 17, 2009
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Coach Murphy was worse than player Murphy.

Still remember one game, Leafs holding a one goal lead very late in the game and Coach Murphy puts Larry out to protect the lead.

....

If you need more explanation you just weren't there, and obviously Leafs give up 2 goals and lose.

Coach Murphy has a standard answer to just about every question about his team:

"We don't have the type of talent to do that."

If young Leafs fans think Ron Wilson slags his players, you should have heard this guy. Although never as prickly as Wilson, Murphy never missed an opportunity to put the blame firmly on the shortcomings of his players. The media gave Murphy mostly a free ride because he is such a likable, amiable guy. And what we got was an ineptly executed trap game.
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
15,354
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He was more a very good complimentary player than a player who could carry a team on his own. He needed good help to be at his most effective.

People expected too much out of him.

The Leafs at the time were horrible and busy shellshocking Potvin into oblivion too.
 

IBeL34f

Lilly-grin
Jun 3, 2010
8,226
2,649
Toronto
He was awful, another one that deserved bad treatment but never got it was Jamie Macoun... guy was even worse than Murphy when it came to giveaway and just plain awful meltdowns. I always hated Jamie Macoun, never understood the people who actually liked him. :rant:

I hated playing with Jamie Macoun in NHL '94. Gaddamn he was awful
 

BraveCanadian

Registered User
Jun 30, 2010
15,354
4,626
Bite your tongue, Todd Gill was a rock for us. He means Hal Gill.

Todd Gill did make a lot of boneheaded giveaways, especially when he was younger.

He did improve dramatically later on though, and I love the guy cause he just tried his best all the time. Great team guy.
 

robdicks

Registered User
Aug 10, 2008
5,523
0
Welland ON
It was not really about Murphy. It was about the fans. Murphy is only the most notable in a series of scapegoats, mostly on defense, who were targetted by the fans over the eyears. He did not play up to expectations here and slotted into that scapegoat role. Maybe it was the coach misusing him. Maybe the booing got to him in the end and the problems just snowballed. Maybe it just wasn't a good fit. But he wasn't anything like as bad as a lot of fans would say,obviously including some posters in this thread.

I would say it was just years of frustration seeking an outlet. Most fanbases, maybe all fanbases, have scapegoats. The size of the fanbase here and the number of years of failure just makes a universal phenomenon worse here. There will be a scapegoat indefinitely. Right now it's Komi. The year before, it almost became Schenn. If Komi is traded, it will be someone else. Yep, it's mainly about the fans.

This. I can't get over the amount of people that just want to get rid of Komisarek and think that the team will be better by using Simon Gysbers ahead of him. Before Lebda was traded Komisarek was barely talked about. If Komi left then it would just be someone else. Its the way Leafs fans work.
 

daveleaf

#FIREKEEFE #MIGHTBETIMETOFIRESHANNYTOO
Mar 23, 2010
5,866
544
Canada
Once that team started to turn over talent at an alarming pace it spelled the end. Reaching for yesteryear. Going out and making the team a complete mucking team with no wheels on the wings. Sent a fabulous young defense man for Clark in Jonsson. Got Muller. Were at the top of the standing at Christmas time and lost so many in a row it was miserable. I get the years mixed up since it was so bad. Burns was fired-Murphy put behind the bench and it went even worse. Forwards left there d-men out in the middle of an island and Larry was the benefactor of that. Too bad. Good player that at the end the town made him a scape goat for poor personnel decisions and bad coaching. I thought a year before or so when they were leading Chicago and looked like they were on the way to the next round this team could make some damage but then the wheels fell off and they lost that series.

I think Stavro meddled too much, forced Fletch to bring back a banged up and a shadow of his former self in Wendell Clark, Muller never helped that team and they looked very mobile with Jonsson and Murphy on the back end.

We can all speculate but who knew what happened behind closed doors. There was a lot of talent on that team though that all of a sudden found ways to loose.
 

BrentZ10

Registered User
Jun 30, 2005
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Todd Gill was awesome. He used to be my favorite player when I was younger because it seemed like I got his card in every pack I opened.
 

Pierre Gotye

Registered User
Mar 17, 2009
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McKinney, TX
He was big and slow, and players who are big and slow always make you leaving with the feeling they could have done better.

He still produced points, but the other perceptions on a nightly basis was that he didn't care about the Leafs or the organization and that he didn't really care about making an impact just collecting a paycheck. Plus, a lot of people thought that he could have brought in good leadership at a time when the Leafs really needed it and he didn't show it.

The other issue was his personality. He has a quirky personality that's oddly friendly, but not really media and fan friendly.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,887
14,168
Toronto, Ontario
I suspect a lot of people answering in this thread weren't actually old enough to watch Larry Murphy's tenure with the Maple Leafs, because these descriptions of his constant give aways, error prone play and slow footwork leaving him out of position don't reflect the truth.

Murphy didn't play fantastic in Toronto, but he was far from awful and certainly wasn't - at any time - the worst defender on the ice for the Maple Leafs. Part of the issue, too, was that Maple Leaf fans weren't really aware of what kind of player they had. There's a portion of "Leaf Nation" that are known to be "Leaf" fans but not really "Hockey" fans, meaning, players that play in other cities around the league they're not too educated about. When Cliff Fletcher acquired Larry Murphy, it was after the Hawks had ousted them from the playoffs, in large part due to the excellent defensive combo of Gary Suter and Chris Chelios. When Fletcher acquired Murphy, he cited Chelios and Suter and said he wanted to bring in a top line defender. Many Leaf fans took this to mean they had acquired a player of that ilk. Both those men had a nasty streak and the ability to lug the puck. This was not Larry Murphy at all.

The fans miscast his role and so, sadly, did his coach. His biggest downfall during his time in Blue & White can be attributed to idiotic coaching from Mike Murphy.

Throughout Larry Murphy's Hall of Fame career he was known as an elite puck mover and an excellent decision maker. At no point in his career, even in his youth, was Murphy fleet footed, so clearly, the organization was keenly aware of that when they acquired him. However, Mike Murphy, inexplicably, has him carrying the puck more then he ever had at any point in his career, often with mixed and some times horrible results. Murphy was a great passer, but above all, he was excellent in terms of positioning. He was one of the smarter defenders of his era, and he was acutely aware of his limitations so he would always position himself very carefully to limit this. Mike Murphy - for reasons unknown - threw all of this out the window and designed a system that saw the Leaf defense - which wasn't exactly mobile - wheel with the puck.

Also, when Murphy was at his best, he formed excellent partnerships with solid defensive guys (Ulf Samuellson in Pittsburgh and Nick Lidstrom in Detroit) Mike Murphy - again, quite stupidly - didn't follow the blueprint that worked so well in Pittsburgh.

The fans turning on him, in my opinion, was really quite stupid. He was far from the worst player on the ice, and too many of the fans in the building were unaware that Larry Murphy was being horribly misused and instead deduced he was "washed up." Obviously, Scotty Bowman in Detroit could clearly see the issue was him being miscast and was able to essentially take him for free, drop him intro the first pairing on a elite team and watched him pick up two Stanley Cup rings and post back to back 52 point seasons.
 

FerrisRox

"Wanna go, Prettyboy?"
Sep 17, 2003
20,887
14,168
Toronto, Ontario
Because he didn't want to be in Toronto and played like it.

This is absolute nonense.

Then-Penguins GM Craig Patrick, out of respect to Larry Murphy (who had just been named a 2nd Team All-Star, but needed to be moved for budgetary reasons) consulted him before trading him that summer and Larry picked Toronto as a destination (he's from the area) and Larry signed a contract with Toronto to extend his stay.

Then he went out and posted 61 points, a total that one Leaf defender has matched since.
 

Stephen

Moderator
Feb 28, 2002
81,403
59,030
He was awful, another one that deserved bad treatment but never got it was Jamie Macoun... guy was even worse than Murphy when it came to giveaway and just plain awful meltdowns. I always hated Jamie Macoun, never understood the people who actually liked him. :rant:

Jamie Macoun was a solid defenseman who had some good speed back in the Burns glory years, but turned into a fossil really quickly. I guess he got more slack because of that but he was getting pretty bad by the end too.

Murphy was a nice guy, but his on ice play was glaringly awful. He was a giveaway machine and he was slower than Jason Allison. The fact that Detroit insulated him better doesn't mean he wasn't a disaster here.
 

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