Why did we build such a tough team to play this way?

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,583
10,573
Which part was unclear? If you are trying to say we haven't been the clear winner of the physicality battle this playoff, your opinion can be thrown in the bin where it belongs.

The D
The tending
The special teams
The lack of ES scoring

2/4 of those things are on the coach.
You could argue Keefe did not put Woll in sooner so maybe 3/4
ES is on MM AM and the bunch

Special teams has murdered us though. Thats on Keefe and the coaching staff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

HockeyVirus

Woll stan.
Nov 15, 2020
16,421
24,137
The D
The tending
The special teams
The lack of ES scoring

2/4 of those things are on the coach.
You could argue Keefe did not put Woll in sooner so maybe 3/4
ES is on MM AM and the bunch

Special teams has murdered us though. Thats on Keefe and the coaching staff.

Why are we talking about this stuff? The thread pretty clearly is about not playing physical which is complete nonsense. So much so, you wonder if they watched any of the games at all
 

thewave

Registered User
Jun 17, 2011
40,583
10,573
Why are we talking about this stuff? The thread pretty clearly is about not playing physical which is complete nonsense. So much so, you wonder if they watched any of the games at all

We have been good that way. I have had no trouble with that, maybe some more big hits.
 

NVious

Registered User
Dec 20, 2022
1,053
2,078
Toughness was never the problem, you simply can't win if the guys that you pay 10+ million dollars play like 5 million dollar players come the playoffs.

What was "soft" was our core's performances not some magical hit that somebody should've laid or some magical fight some enforcer should've had.
 

Leaffan1991

Registered User
Oct 22, 2016
4,676
3,009
Canada
We brought in a couple of players but realistically:
Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson, Holmberg are not tough at all, very soft.
That's a ton of forwards that have no toughness to them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

arso40

Registered User
Jun 7, 2022
1,721
1,114
We brought in a couple of players but realistically:
Matthews, Marner, Nylander, Tavares, Jarnkrok, Kampf, Robertson, Holmberg are not tough at all, very soft.
That's a ton of forwards that have no toughness to them.
I seen a little meanness from willy in the game but your right there's no one with the burning desire amongst the core atleast it would appear that way anyway
 

skacore

Registered User
Nov 7, 2010
3,206
195
Takes like the OP are what frustrate me the most with losing and dealing with fans. Did you only watch one game? Or is your memory only the last thing you saw?

Leafs bullied the Bruins first 3 games.
Ok there bud 👍

Hahaha
 

skacore

Registered User
Nov 7, 2010
3,206
195
Which part was unclear? If you are trying to say we haven't been the clear winner of the physicality battle this playoff, your opinion can be thrown in the bin where it belongs.
It’s been pretty 50/50. Leafs certainly haven’t “bullied” anyone. With the team they built this year, they should.
 

Clark4Ever

What we do in hockey echoes in eternity...
Oct 10, 2010
11,691
8,365
T.O.
The HNIC panel explained it best - - Leafs spend the entire regular season as a freewheeling team but that never works during the playoffs.
Suddenly they have to dump and chase but have no concept of how to execute it.
I hate to say it, but this is one of the reasons Babs got fired when he did. He insisted on trying to instill that style of play during the regular season at the expense of our offensive production but Dubas and Shanahan didn't have the patience to see it through.
 

usernamezrhardtodo

Registered User
Mar 26, 2014
2,364
2,828
I agree, new special teams coaches, but that is not Keefe.

Keefe can go too, I don't care, but he doesn't run special teams.
Do you seriously think he has no say in the matter? If he IS delegating (which I doubt) and this is the net result...he should be fired for not stepping in. Damned if you do...damned if you don't. There is absolutely no way he isn't responsible for this shit show IMO.
 
  • Like
Reactions: thewave

Mess

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
87,061
12,185
Leafs Home Board
The HNIC panel explained it best - - Leafs spend the entire regular season as a freewheeling team but that never works during the playoffs.
Suddenly they have to dump and chase but have no concept of how to execute it.

They were spot on..

Regular season run and gun scoring on the rush with long passes and big breakout plays to fill the net with pucks. Then playoffs arrive and good teams clog up center ice forcing a team to suddenly play dump and chase hockey.

Teams like Boston and Florida play dump and chase all year preparing for the playoffs, but to the Leafs particularly their skilled players that love to carry the puck, maintain possession look lost when asked to dump it in the zone and then attempt to regain possession, particularly in a physical series.

Keefe didn't have a plan for Torts aggressive forecheck and neutral zone trap verses Columbus many years ago, and he is the same clueless coach today, foolishly believing his team can play one way during the regular season and then another come playoff time and be successful.
 
  • Like
Reactions: usernamezrhardtodo

Ports

Registered User
Dec 7, 2017
1,257
1,190
My thoughts heading into this series was that at the very least we were going to go down fighting and beat the piss out of the Bruins. I had Domi and Reaves pegged to grab a Boston player at some point and start unloading. It was really odd a message wasn't sent at the end of game 3. Everyone just looks dejected and afraid to make a mistake, we've seen this before.
Not many fights in the playoffs anymore and Keefe doesn’t coach that way although he was a tough player. Funny how both he and Shanny played hard and fought and somehow built such a soft team. Where’s Wendel when you need him.
 

ORRFForever

Registered User
Oct 29, 2018
18,463
9,890
The HNIC panel explained it best - - Leafs spend the entire regular season as a freewheeling team but that never works during the playoffs.
Suddenly they have to dump and chase but have no concept of how to execute it.
Yup.

**

Matthews loves to exit the zone, pick up speed, double back, get the puck and fire. And, in the regular season, teams let him do it - although, I'm not sure why.

In the playoffs, teams don't and, apparently, once you stop that momentum and throw off his timing, he can't score.
 

Ports

Registered User
Dec 7, 2017
1,257
1,190
They were spot on..

Regular season run and gun scoring on the rush with long passes and big breakout plays to fill the net with pucks. Then playoffs arrive and good teams clog up center ice forcing a team to suddenly play dump and chase hockey.

Teams like Boston and Florida play dump and chase all year preparing for the playoffs, but to the Leafs particularly their skilled players that love to carry the puck, maintain possession look lost when asked to dump it in the zone and then attempt to regain possession, particularly in a physical series.

Keefe didn't have a plan for Torts aggressive forecheck and neutral zone trap verses Columbus many years ago, and he is the same clueless coach today, foolishly believing his team can play one way during the regular season and then another come playoff time and be successful.
You’re right and that’s astonishing. Other coaches have a game plan to shut them down and Keefe can’t adjust to it.
 

TheShape

Registered User
Oct 25, 2018
2,518
3,000
Keefe couldn't implement a heavier play style even if he wanted to though, the forwards want to play how they want to play and that's it. If Keefe doesn't cater to them, he's out of a job. Inmates run the asylum.

Culture reset desperately needed.
 

hfman

Registered User
Oct 30, 2013
3,197
1,533
Canucks 2 down with 2 minutes to go, tie it up and win in overtime

All other teams can have these good things, but not Toronto. That sort of thing isn't allowed in this city and hasn't been for 20 years

sad
 

BallardEra

Leafs&Caps Since 1982™
Dec 26, 2017
7,373
11,783
East York, Ontario
Canucks 2 down with 2 minutes to go, tie it up and win in overtime

All other teams can have these good things, but not Toronto. That sort of thing isn't allowed in this city and hasn't been for 20 years

sad
Demko out and their #2 and #3 goalies pulled out wins.
 

Leafsfan74

Registered User
Jul 2, 2018
5,027
5,241
For the first time in years we entered the season/playoffs with a well rounded tough team. Reaves is the top heavyweight in the league, Edmundson, Benoit, and McCabe provide a lot of snarl on the back end. Bertuzzi/Domi finally gives us some top 6 grit. But what are they doing with it come playoffs??? Reaves lays maybe 1 big hit a game and Domis been taking some dumb penalties but where are the scrums, intimidation, fight challenges?

You see other teams do it all the time. Down 2-0 looking to change momentum so start a big scrum around the goalie and let the tougher guys try to pick fights… why did we build this team just to play the same lame perimeter skilled game we’ve been trying the last 5 years??
Well, the majority of the toughness is on the backend. Reaves is the only heavyweight. I also didn't agree with Keefes decision to break up the 4th line. If they score it's a bonus, they need to be the tough, forechecking grinding line and they were. Robertson provides a sneaky threat but you shouldn't be looking for scoring from your 4th. I get he is desperate to get some goals, but...

Bert and Domi have been involved. Matthews in game 2 was the best Matthews we have seen, scoring, hitting and looking like the Alpha Male on the ice everytime. In fact, the first two games even though it was tied 1-1 in the series had the Bruins thinking. Even Marchand stated "they are built differently". Brad did a good job on the back end.

If Leafs score to make it 3-2 in game three instead of Marchand scoring so quickly, this series is entirely different. It's as if they didn't believe the heavy hockey was paying dividends.

Look, Marner needs to go. I've said this nicely in the past even when he was having great years and his fanboys on here mocked this opinion, some even suggesting he makes Matthews a goal scorer. JTs contract has to expire. It's that simple. Brodie won't be re upped, he had a couple of good years, but is not in the future here. This Cap Space is needed and there are no gymnastics that can compensate for this.

How badly do they need this cap space in order to get the right players? I let Marner walk without any compensation if it comes down to that. Leafs management cannot be afraid to take bold decisions. They need the right DNA, it's been repeated ad nauseam. Hockey is different. I love the beautiful game too, olympics are great. NHL playoffs has always been a different animal.


Their replacements? Heavy, North/South players who don't score a tonne in the regular season but who will punch above their weight in the playoffs.

If Brad can re-sign Boosh and try and find reasonable ground with Bert and Domi, there is some room here.

The future of building around Matthews is doable. It has to be the same types throughout the line up/ They have Knies for cheap, they have McMann sewn up for three years, ditto for Benoit. There will be cap wiggle room if management can, pardon the expression, find their balls.
 
Last edited:

Ports

Registered User
Dec 7, 2017
1,257
1,190
It’s a fair question but I think a huge component of it is our inability to kill a penalty. Nobody wants to be the one guy pulled from a scrum because we cant afford to go a man down
I agree. i think Keefe is telling them to stay out of the box. They’re ok 5v5 but they’re getting slaughtered on special teams. I would rather they play 4v4 than go on the PP right now.

We have known this since the MTL series. It was easy to correct at that point.
Shanahan / Dubas had another vision and Keefe was part of that and they wouldn’t admit their mistakes or make the necessary changes.
 

Niagara Bill

Registered User
Oct 11, 2021
1,748
1,271
The D
The tending
The special teams
The lack of ES scoring

2/4 of those things are on the coach.
You could argue Keefe did not put Woll in sooner so maybe 3/4
ES is on MM AM and the bunch

Special teams has murdered us though. Thats on Keefe and the coaching staff.
I don't agree. While Keefe has failed the special teams is on the players. You have had good assistant coaches. Do you think any coach wants Mitvhy on penalty kill. They are forced. This pp is bad because the players are uncoachable.They play how they want. The coach knows who runs this team. We have known gor a long time this core couldn't do it. Mitchy and Reilly must go. Something must be done either JT salary.
Our minor league coaching has to change. We have developed no one in 6 years. Not one dman including Lily.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ruaware41

Boxscore

Registered User
Jan 22, 2007
14,447
7,225
Shanahan / Dubas had another vision and Keefe was part of that and they wouldn’t admit their mistakes or make the necessary changes.
While I absolutely agree that Shanny, Dubas, and Keefe have enabled this losing culture, let's not forget that these players spent the summer, after an embarrassing playoff showing, complaining about the team dress code. Let that sink it. These guys are making tens of millions, are wearing the crest of one of hockey's greatest teams, just got bounced in the playoffs, and their focus was the DRESS CODE.

What more do we need to know about what type of players, and children, we're discussing here?

We can hem and haw about the coach, the PP schemes, etc. But come playoff time, teams that win the war of attrition are hardened, mentally tough, focused, and hungry. Our players are everything but.

Could you imagine Wendel Clark walking into Pat Burns office and telling him the dress code is problematic after losing Game 7 to the Kings?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad