Why did we build such a tough team to play this way?

[Ports]

While I absolutely agree that Shanny, Dubas, and Keefe have enabled this losing culture, let's not forget that these players spent the summer, after an embarrassing playoff showing, complaining about the team dress code. Let that sink it. These guys are making tens of millions, are wearing the crest of one of hockey's greatest teams, just got bounced in the playoffs, and their focus was the DRESS CODE.

What more do we need to know about what type of players, and children, we're discussing here?

We can hem and haw about the coach, the PP schemes, etc. But come playoff time, teams that win the war of attrition are hardened, mentally tough, focused, and hungry. Our players are everything but.

Could you imagine Wendel Clark walking into Pat Burns office and telling him the dress code is problematic after losing Game 7 to the Kings?

Maybe handing 21 year old kids the keys to the castle was a bad idea. Then again MLSE hired a President with no management experience who eventually hired a GM with no GM experience who then hired a coach with no experience coaching in the NHL. Doesn’t sound like experience was valued. Inexperience and entitlement destroyed this organization.

 

[Ports]

Well, the majority of the toughness is on the backend. Reaves is the only heavyweight. I also didn't agree with Keefes decision to break up the 4th line. If they score it's a bonus, they need to be the tough, forechecking grinding line and they were. Robertson provides a sneaky threat but you shouldn't be looking for scoring from your 4th. I get he is desperate to get some goals, but...

Bert and Domi have been involved. Matthews in game 2 was the best Matthews we have seen, scoring, hitting and looking like the Alpha Male on the ice everytime. In fact, the first two games even though it was tied 1-1 in the series had the Bruins thinking. Even Marchand stated "they are built differently". Brad did a good job on the back end.

If Leafs score to make it 3-2 in game three instead of Marchand scoring so quickly, this series is entirely different. It's as if they didn't believe the heavy hockey was paying dividends.

Look, Marner needs to go. I've said this nicely in the past even when he was having great years and his fanboys on here mocked this opinion, some even suggesting he makes Matthews a goal scorer. JTs contract has to expire. It's that simple. Brodie won't be re upped, he had a couple of good years, but is not in the future here. This Cap Space is needed and there are no gymnastics that can compensate for this.

How badly do they need this cap space in order to get the right players? I let Marner walk without any compensation if it comes down to that. Leafs management cannot be afraid to take bold decisions. They need the right DNA, it's been repeated ad nauseam. Hockey is different. I love the beautiful game too, olympics are great. NHL playoffs has always been a different animal.


Their replacements? Heavy, North/South players who don't score a tonne in the regular season but who will punch above their weight in the playoffs.

If Brad can re-sign Boosh and try and find reasonable ground with Bert and Domi, there is some room here.

The future of building around Matthews is doable. It has to be the same types throughout the line up/ They have Knies for cheap, they have McMann sewn up for three years, ditto for Benoit. There will be cap wiggle room if management can, pardon the expression, find their balls.

I couldn’t have said it better myself. Maybe they can hire you to replace Shanahan.

 

[Boxscore]

Maybe handing 21 year old kids the keys to the castle was a bad idea. Then again MLSE hired a President with no management experience who eventually hired a GM with no GM experience who then hired a coach with no experience coaching in the NHL. Doesn’t sound like experience was valued. Inexperience and entitlement destroyed this organization.

100%

 

[Matthews4Calder]

This is not a well rounded team. For the first 3 games, we had a 7M defender, 2M defender and then a bunch of sub 1M defenders. You don't win that way

And you can argue the 7 million D man has maybe been the worst of the bunch.

 

[leafsfan5]

The players who are tough are useless

 

[Leafsfan74]

100%

I wonder if Shanahan hired Dubas as he didn't view him as a threat to his job, I don't know. What I do know is that is common in top heavy corporations, which MLSE seems to be.

 

[ponder]

Are you guys actually watching the games? We've been playing very physical, hitting a tonne, and hitting hard too - Reaves and McCabe especially have been laying some bone crunching hits. For some numbers, we're 2nd among all playoff teams in hits so far, with 220 (well ahead of the Bruins, 4th, with 189). FWIW we were 2nd in hits in the regular season too, again tonnes of hard hits, and tonnes of fights and scrums.

We have some absolutely brutal problems, but physicality is not among them. The actual problems that have been hurting us these playoffs:

1. Our star forwards have sucked. Matthews had one good game but has otherwise been very mediocre, JT hasn't done much, Marner has been terrible, Willy has barely played. Watching real stars like McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Makar, Kucherov, Eichel, Tkachuk … even guys like Marchand, JT Miller and Zibby, it’s just night and day what they’re bringing vs. our core 4
2. We have a shoestring budget defence. It's fairly good value for the very low cap hit we allocate to it, but there's just not much talent there
3. Shockingly bad special teams. Our PP is completely impotent, almost every PP we generate basically nothing, other than momentum for the Bruins after they kill it off with ease. Lots of failed zone entries, and even when we get a cycle set up, it's predictable and easily countered, almost never generating a high quality scoring chance. Our PK is total trash too, leaking great chances like crazy. We have a terrible 54% PK (6 goals allowed over 13 PKs) and equally terrible 7% PP (1 goal scored over 14 PPs), bottom 3 in the playoffs in both

I think all 3 points basically come down to the core 4. 1 and 3 is them directly choking, and 2 is a side-effect of their greed, just no money for quality dmen when we're overpaying them so badly. Although I'd also blame the coaching staff for the poor special teams - seems the Bruins have game-planned beautifully for our PP/PK, while we haven't adapted at all.

The problem is not physicality, the guys who were brought in to make us more physical and gritty have done their job. The problem is the above 3 points.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I hate to admit this but Babcock was right. Shame the man couldn't have gotten out of his own way. He is the Johnny Drama of professional coaching.

 

[ZEBROA]

Out hit them 49-23. The problem is shotblocking. 6-27. Bruins are waaaaaaaay better at standing in the shooting lanes.

That must bee a coaching thing.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Toronto FC head coach John Herdman among MLS disciplinary committee's recommended suspensions

The suspensions are not related to Herdman's claims against NYCFC coach Nick Cushing.

www.nytimes.com

The soccer team is scarier than the hockey team.

This is where we are at. The Leafs don't have the right combination of skill and grit to succeed. Bringing in a few "tough" guys and telling everyone to hit more isn't the way to build a stanley cup winning roster.

Instant contender, just add grit.

It all starts with the leaders. Once they set the tone the rest of the team buys in. Until then they remain a creampuff team.

With a soft and squishy core.

Nobody's afraid to take a bite out of that. Because they're not gonna lose any teeth. Pretty sad the guys on the soccer team, earning far less money, have to show these so-called hockey players how it's done.

Maybe I've been watching the wrong team this whole time.

 

[De Montreal]

It’s not a tough teams if the tough guys are bottom six / bottom pairing guys. Just my two cents.

 

[ashs]

tough is good, our stars didnt score

 

[Trapper]

Your skill needs to have some tough and your tough needs to have some skill.
This isn’t baseball where you are just a DH or 1 inning pitching specialist.

 

[Evilhomer]

Toronto FC head coach John Herdman among MLS disciplinary committee's recommended suspensions

The suspensions are not related to Herdman's claims against NYCFC coach Nick Cushing.

www.nytimes.com

The soccer team is scarier than the hockey team.

This is where we are at. The Leafs don't have the right combination of skill and grit to succeed. Bringing in a few "tough" guys and telling everyone to hit more isn't the way to build a stanley cup winning roster.

Instant contender, just add grit.

It all starts with the leaders. Once they set the tone the rest of the team buys in. Until then they remain a creampuff team.

With a soft and squishy core.

Nobody's afraid to take a bite out of that. Because they're not gonna lose any teeth. Pretty sad the guys on the soccer team, earning far less money, have to show these so-called hockey players how it's done.

Maybe I've been watching the wrong team this whole time.

This toughness argument has always been so bizarre to me. Are the Dallas Stars' best players a bunch of Matthew Tkachuks or prime Rick Tocchets, or is it that they simply find a way to perform in closer-checking games? The issue for the Leafs has always been the same, and it has nothing to do with pushing and shoving - their star offensive players, and even their secondary scorers, are unable to excel in tight-checking games. Having Reaves and Edmundson did nothing to change that.

 

[thewave]

Maybe handing 21 year old kids the keys to the castle was a bad idea. Then again MLSE hired a President with no management experience who eventually hired a GM with no GM experience who then hired a coach with no experience coaching in the NHL. Doesn’t sound like experience was valued. Inexperience and entitlement destroyed this organization.

This may be the best post I have read in a long while.

Solid gold!

 

[Smif]

Out hit them 49-23. The problem is shotblocking. 6-27. Bruins are waaaaaaaay better at standing in the shooting lanes.

That must bee a coaching thing.

This says a lot! I would love to see the full stats of the whole series after seeing this one example.

 

[WillyC]

For the first time in years we entered the season/playoffs with a well rounded tough team. Reaves is the top heavyweight in the league, Edmundson, Benoit, and McCabe provide a lot of snarl on the back end. Bertuzzi/Domi finally gives us some top 6 grit. But what are they doing with it come playoffs??? Reaves lays maybe 1 big hit a game and Domis been taking some dumb penalties but where are the scrums, intimidation, fight challenges?

You see other teams do it all the time. Down 2-0 looking to change momentum so start a big scrum around the goalie and let the tougher guys try to pick fights… why did we build this team just to play the same lame perimeter skilled game we’ve been trying the last 5 years??

Domi, Bertuzzi, and Marner were the only Leafs with zero hits in game 7.

Top Six Grit?

 

[skacore]

You don’t think Domi and Bertuzzi provide grit?

 

[notbias]

Maybe handing 21 year old kids the keys to the castle was a bad idea. Then again MLSE hired a President with no management experience who eventually hired a GM with no GM experience who then hired a coach with no experience coaching in the NHL. Doesn’t sound like experience was valued. Inexperience and entitlement destroyed this organization.

Considering the people to draft and play those kids originally were some of the most experienced... I don't think experience was the issue.

Like every year though, we needed more scoring, not more hitting.

 

[thewave]

Out hit them 49-23. The problem is shotblocking. 6-27. Bruins are waaaaaaaay better at standing in the shooting lanes.

That must bee a coaching thing.

Our coaching was terrible the whole time. Keefe probably knew he was out for half the year and that was that. They just mailed in coaching..couldn't bring a pp over 4% in a playoff series 10% for months.

 

[ZEBROA]

This says a lot! I would love to see the full stats of the whole series after seeing this one example.

I belive they were even or better then Bruins the last 3 games or so in shot blocked. To tierd to look it up right now, but skill worth mastering as a team.

 

[Ports]

Considering the people to draft and play those kids originally were some of the most experienced... I don't think experience was the issue.

Like every year though, we needed more scoring, not more hitting.

Listen to Brad Marchand’s recent comments about what wins in the playoffs. Leafs can’t score in the playoffs because they’re a perimeter team that can score in wide open regular season games against bad opponents. They didn’t score against the Bruins all season because they take away their time and space and the Leafs aren’t tough enough to go to the net. Their core four are all soft especially Marner. Matthew Knies played well in the playoffs because he plays hard physical hockey and goes to the net. Scoring and toughness go hand in hand. Can’t score if you’re not tough enough.

 

[notbias]

Listen to Brad Marchand’s recent comments about what wins in the playoffs. Leafs can’t score in the playoffs because they’re a perimeter team that can score in wide open regular season games against bad opponents. They didn’t score against the Bruins all season because they take away their time and space and the Leafs aren’t tough enough to go to the net. Their core four are all soft especially Marner. Matthew Knies played well in the playoffs because he plays hard physical hockey and goes to the net. Scoring and toughness go hand in hand. Can’t score if you’re not tough enough.

Marchand hasn't won anything since 2011, does he still know?

 

[Racer88]

Out hit them 49-23. The problem is shotblocking. 6-27. Bruins are waaaaaaaay better at standing in the shooting lanes.

That must bee a coaching thing.

Not a coaching thing but a bravery versus cowardice thing

 

[ZEBROA]

Not a coaching thing but a bravery versus cowardice thing

They changed gameplan last 3 games (i think it was) and started to block shots at the same rate as Bruins.