Why did the Maple Leafs decide against signing Wayne Gretzky as a free agent in 1996?

[Deebo]

your wrong, 16 years and 8 months

Your doesn't mean you are.

 

[FakeKidPoker*]

In 96-97 Gretzky finished 5th in NHL scoring... out scoring Mats Sundin

In 97-98 Gretzky finished 4th in NHL scoring.... out scoring Mats Sundin by over 16 points.

He wouldn't have helped?

 

[FerrisRox]

Everyone was putting up points back then and whatever Gretz gave you on the offensive end he cost you on the defensive end .

What are you talking about? You realize there are several people who post here who are old enough to clearly remember Wayne Gretzky's career. You can say that "everybody" put points back then, but did "everybody" finish fourth in league scoring? 'Cause that's what Gretzky did his first season in New York. He played on a lot of really lousy defensive teams in Los Angeles, and in New York, but to suggest that he "cost you" in the defensive end is simply inaccurate. His first year in New York, Gretzky put up 97 points, a plus-12 rating and 20 more points in 15 playoff games. To act like that wouldn't be a beneficial pick up for the Maple Leafs is quite simply ignorant.

These stories how the team budget was slashed are pure stupidity , i know we were never the biggest spenders but i don't remember us ever dropping out of the top 10 and we could have moved a little money out to accomadate Gretz if he was being resonable like some stories have said ( others stories have also said he'd take a discount to come here ) .

You can pretend that the stories of budget slashing are "pure stupidity" but making a baseless claim, unfortunately for you, doesn't re-write history. It's undeniable that the Maple Leafs drastically slashed their budget by unloading several highly paid stars in in 1996 and 1997.

Starting in June of '96, a pretty decent Leaf team was disassembled. Todd Gill got sent to San Jose for Jamie Baker; then they made an obvious salary dump with a trade that sent Mike Gartner, fresh off a 35-goal season for the Leafs, to Phoenix for a fourth rounder. Dave Gagner, who produced at close to a point-a-game for the Leafs was then shipped to Calgary for a 3rd rounder.

After moving out all that cash, instead of signing Wayne Gretzky as a free agent, the only players the Leafs added that summer via free agency were John Craighead, Brian Wiseman and Scott Pearson. Once the 1996-97 season began, the Leafs continued to strip payroll shipping out salaried veterans Doug Gilmour, Dave Ellett, Larry Murphy and Kirk Muller. In *EVERY SINGLE ONE* of these transactions the Leafs acquired draft picks, future considerations, prospects or low-salaried younger players.

How can you possibly sit here and claim that "stories" of budget slashing are "pure stupidity" when in less then one calendar year, the Leafs dumped Mike Gartner, Todd Gill, Dave Gagner, Doug Gilmour, Dave Ellett, Larry Murphy and Kirk Muller?

Do you really think you can just make things up to support your argument and no one will notice that your substituting your opinion for facts?

 

[Morbo]

The short answer is that the Leafs ownership were too cheap(not to mention stupid) to realize signing Wayne ****ing Gretzky was a good idea.

 

[hotpaws]

What are you talking about? You realize there are several people who post here who are old enough to clearly remember Wayne Gretzky's career. You can say that "everybody" put points back then, but did "everybody" finish fourth in league scoring? 'Cause that's what Gretzky did his first season in New York. He played on a lot of really lousy defensive teams in Los Angeles, and in New York, but to suggest that he "cost you" in the defensive end is simply inaccurate. His first year in New York, Gretzky put up 97 points, a plus-12 rating and 20 more points in 15 playoff games. To act like that wouldn't be a beneficial pick up for the Maple Leafs is quite simply ignorant.



You can pretend that the stories of budget slashing are "pure stupidity" but making a baseless claim, unfortunately for you, doesn't re-write history. It's undeniable that the Maple Leafs drastically slashed their budget by unloading several highly paid stars in in 1996 and 1997.

Starting in June of '96, a pretty decent Leaf team was disassembled. Todd Gill got sent to San Jose for Jamie Baker; then they made an obvious salary dump with a trade that sent Mike Gartner, fresh off a 35-goal season for the Leafs, to Phoenix for a fourth rounder. Dave Gagner, who produced at close to a point-a-game for the Leafs was then shipped to Calgary for a 3rd rounder.

After moving out all that cash, instead of signing Wayne Gretzky as a free agent, the only players the Leafs added that summer via free agency were John Craighead, Brian Wiseman and Scott Pearson. Once the 1996-97 season began, the Leafs continued to strip payroll shipping out salaried veterans Doug Gilmour, Dave Ellett, Larry Murphy and Kirk Muller. In *EVERY SINGLE ONE* of these transactions the Leafs acquired draft picks, future considerations, prospects or low-salaried younger players.

How can you possibly sit here and claim that "stories" of budget slashing are "pure stupidity" when in less then one calendar year, the Leafs dumped Mike Gartner, Todd Gill, Dave Gagner, Doug Gilmour, Dave Ellett, Larry Murphy and Kirk Muller?

Do you really think you can just make things up to support your argument and no one will notice that your substituting your opinion for facts?

I didn't say Gretz didn't produce i said alot of players did which was true . Gretz never came below the blue other than to take face offs and he was by far the softest player in the league by that time so i have no idea how you can say he was solid in his own end . In short Gretz wasn't the difference between us winning or losing the cup .

For a guy with such a good memory you left out quite a few points , you forgot to mention we were an old team that was starting to slide down the standings .

Larry Murphy got booed out of town and that's why he was traded and he was in his mid 30's

Kirk Muller was done we got him and didn't do crap after we dealt him

Gartner was in his late 30's played 2 more years after we traded him and retired

Gilmour wanted out and demanded a trade

Gagner played a total of 28 games a Leaf and only had a couple of decent years after he was dealt

Ellet was pretty much done when we traded him as well

Gill was a decent D but did nothing after we dealt him

The team was mediocre heading towards the bottom and that's why the Vets were being moved out outside of Dougie .

Also Stavro was COB until 2003 and he didn't seem to have the financial shorts with Quinn when he allowed him to aquire countless vets to fuel our cup runs under Sundin .

 

[ErnieLeafs]

Berger trolls HFBoards so hard...

People just eat this garbage up.
He's reading this RIGHT NOW, laughing.

In fact, he's probably going to go to the "Race to the Bottom" thread next, and prepare his next article.

 

[FerrisRox]

I didn't say Gretz didn't produce i said alot of players did which was true . Gretz never came below the blue other than to take face offs and he was by far the softest player in the league by that time so i have no idea how you can say he was solid in his own end . In short Gretz wasn't the difference between us winning or losing the cup .

How old are you? I find it impossible to believe anybody that's actually old enough to remember watching Gretzky play at the end of his Kings/Blues days and into his Rangers years would say something as absurd as he never came back behind the blueline except to take faceoffs or that he was the softest player in the league. Both of these statements are simply fabrications.

How old are you?

For a guy with such a good memory you left out quite a few points , you forgot to mention we were an old team that was starting to slide down the standings.

Larry Murphy got booed out of town and that's why he was traded and he was in his mid 30's

Kirk Muller was done we got him and didn't do crap after we dealt him

Gartner was in his late 30's played 2 more years after we traded him and retired

Gilmour wanted out and demanded a trade

Gagner played a total of 28 games a Leaf and only had a couple of decent years after he was dealt

Ellet was pretty much done when we traded him as well

Gill was a decent D but did nothing after we dealt him

The team was mediocre heading towards the bottom and that's why the Vets were being moved out outside of Dougie .

Uh... what the hell are you talking about? You claimed the Leafs didn't slash payroll and that claims that they did were "pure stupidity." Then I gave you a list of several names of high-priced veterans that the Leafs shipped out, one after another that year, and now suddenly you are switching the argument to say that the Leafs traded all of these guys away because they were an old team and the players were starting to fade? Huh? You said they didn't trim payroll. Now you are explaining to *me* the person that disputed your fabrication *why* they trimmed payroll?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is?

Also Stavro was COB until 2003 and he didn't seem to have the financial shorts with Quinn when he allowed him to aquire countless vets to fuel our cup runs under Sundin .

The Leafs "Cup runs?" You realize that never happened either, right? It's beginning to look like you are referring to an alternate reality version of the 1990's and 2000's in the NHL where Wayne Gretzky couldn't play defense, was soft, the Leafs never shed payroll in a big way and then went on to have Mats Sundin-led Cup runs. Unfortunately, absolutely none of what you are claiming has any basis in reality. Maybe you'd be more comfortable posting in the "Fantasy Talk and Hockey Video Game" thread.

 

[hotpaws]

How old are you? I find it impossible to believe anybody that's actually old enough to remember watching Gretzky play at the end of his Kings/Blues days and into his Rangers years would say something as absurd as he never came back behind the blueline except to take faceoffs or that he was the softest player in the league. Both of these statements are simply fabrications.

How old are you?




Uh... what the hell are you talking about? You claimed the Leafs didn't slash payroll and that claims that they did were "pure stupidity." Then I gave you a list of several names of high-priced veterans that the Leafs shipped out, one after another that year, and now suddenly you are switching the argument to say that the Leafs traded all of these guys away because they were an old team and the players were starting to fade? Huh? You said they didn't trim payroll. Now you are explaining to *me* the person that disputed your fabrication *why* they trimmed payroll?

Do you have any idea how ridiculous that is?



The Leafs "Cup runs?" You realize that never happened either, right? It's beginning to look like you are referring to an alternate reality version of the 1990's and 2000's in the NHL where Wayne Gretzky couldn't play defense, was soft, the Leafs never shed payroll in a big way and then went on to have Mats Sundin-led Cup runs. Unfortunately, absolutely none of what you are claiming has any basis in reality. Maybe you'd be more comfortable posting in the "Fantasy Talk and Hockey Video Game" thread.

I'm almost 50 buddy , how old are you and i watched the guy plenty . Gretz was never a physical player and always avoided contact whenever possible nor did he ever ever pay much attention to the defensive side of game and that was especially true near the end of his career . In his younger days he was much more active but by his 30's he was pretty much a one way player .

You said they dismantled the team because Stavro was tight for cash and i said the team was old and sliding to the bottom and that's why they were dismantled . You really should admit when you're wrong . The list of players you gave were finished or very close to it out side of Dougie who asked to be traded . While they may have shed some salary the truth is it was because the players were no longer of much value not because they were short of cash . You shouldn't make up crap and then try to spin your way out of it .

The Leafs made the conference finals under Quinn and aquired many high price vets to help the cause but i guess you forgot about this because it refutes your argument .

 

[BlueStorm]

If Gretzky had continued to play in the OHL, he would have been drafted 1st overall, obviously, by the... Montreal Canadiens! 1980 would have been his draft year and they had the first overall pick. That would have been sickening.
Would have been nice to see him play in TO.

 

[Its not your fault]

I get tired of these bs reports coming out years after . Gretz was on the downside of his career and he wouldn't have accomplished much here .

I remember him and his agent goiing from city to city trying to drum up a bidding war for his services which never materialized . Here in Toronto Al Strchan was working as his personal publicist trying to pump up fans .

There were also reports of him agreeing to a deal with the Nucks but the hang up was he wanted a couple of days to discuss it with his wife but the Nucks wanted an immeadiate answer and that killed the deal .

Gretz was always about the cash once he left Edm and when he signed with the Ranger he made a Pejorative Slured comment at his press conference how he was the only player to take a pay cut to got o NY .

Take this for what it's worth but my father was a manager for him for over 30 years and Stavro told him Gretz would never wear a Leaf jersey because he felt he cost the Leafs a cup when he carved Gilmour and wasn't penalized .

To be honest i never felt he'd ever come back and play for a Canadian team , i felt he was exploiting our fans and media to try to get a bigger deal in the States . If he wanted to come back to Canada and it wasn't about the cash why wouldn't he have gone back to Edm where he won his 4 cups ?

I believe it's been put out their a few times.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Perhaps the answer you truly seek is the answer to this question:

Did Wayne win the Stanley Cup in any other city other then EDM?

 

[mydnyte]

http://www.bergerbytes.ca/gretzky-to-run-leafs/

the "Leafs" didnt the going broke (Knob hill farms) Stavro did.

 

[Confucius]

I didn’t want him, I was glad we passed, after all he didn’t play for us when he was good. Why let him play at an inflated salary when he wasn’t worth the money to us. Carry on and grow the game down south. Lol!

 

[Clark4Ever]

I get tired of these bs reports coming out years after . Gretz was on the downside of his career and he wouldn't have accomplished much here .

I remember him and his agent goiing from city to city trying to drum up a bidding war for his services which never materialized . Here in Toronto Al Strchan was working as his personal publicist trying to pump up fans .

There were also reports of him agreeing to a deal with the Nucks but the hang up was he wanted a couple of days to discuss it with his wife but the Nucks wanted an immeadiate answer and that killed the deal .

Gretz was always about the cash once he left Edm and when he signed with the Ranger he made a Pejorative Slured comment at his press conference how he was the only player to take a pay cut to got o NY .

Take this for what it's worth but my father was a manager for him for over 30 years and Stavro told him Gretz would never wear a Leaf jersey because he felt he cost the Leafs a cup when he carved Gilmour and wasn't penalized .

To be honest i never felt he'd ever come back and play for a Canadian team , i felt he was exploiting our fans and media to try to get a bigger deal in the States . If he wanted to come back to Canada and it wasn't about the cash why wouldn't he have gone back to Edm where he won his 4 cups ?

He still had enough left in the tank to burn us again in the playoffs when we played St. Louis shortly thereafter.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Leafs were heading into a down cycle, so at the very least Gretzky would have been a nice attraction to watch.

Knob Hill Farms was a zoo, and the shopping carts must have been World War Two surplus because they were barely functional. Stavro cut corners on a lot of things.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

I didn’t want him, I was glad we passed, after all he didn’t play for us when he was good. Why let him play at an inflated salary when he wasn’t worth the money to us. Carry on and grow the game down south. Lol!

Was there an opportunity for him to play for the Leafs "when he was good"?

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

After 93, I never wanted to see Wayne's face ever again. Don't get me wrong, great player, but I always preferred Super Mario.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Equity in the Leafs? From a Leafs POV it was a great move not to sign him then. They're worth a billion dollars now.

Maybe they would be worth more if they had signed him? The merchandise generated from his signing alone would have paid for his contract in full and then some.

 

[notDatsyuk]

They knew the fans wouldn't tolerate a player who didn't hit, was good at avoiding being hit, and wouldn't go into the corners or a scrum to get the puck?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Best thing that ever happened to Wayne's legacy is not signing here. If he did, suddenly he would have become not that great, Mario was better, overrated, etc in the eyes of the rest of the leagues fans.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Everyone was putting up points back then and whatever Gretz gave you on the offensive end he cost you on the defensive end .

Seriously? You do know that he is the all-time leader in short-handed goals, second in short-handed assists, and has the highest +/- of any forward.

Caveat that those stats only go back to the 1950s.

 

[MCR74]

I'm almost 50 buddy , how old are you and i watched the guy plenty . Gretz was never a physical player and always avoided contact whenever possible nor did he ever ever pay much attention to the defensive side of game and that was especially true near the end of his career . In his younger days he was much more active but by his 30's he was pretty much a one way player .

You said they dismantled the team because Stavro was tight for cash and i said the team was old and sliding to the bottom and that's why they were dismantled . You really should admit when you're wrong . The list of players you gave were finished or very close to it out side of Dougie who asked to be traded . While they may have shed some salary the truth is it was because the players were no longer of much value not because they were short of cash . You shouldn't make up crap and then try to spin your way out of it .

The Leafs made the conference finals under Quinn and aquired many high price vets to help the cause but i guess you forgot about this because it refutes your argument .

The person you're responding to tears into Leaf fans all the time. You won't see him on the Leafs board unless it's to troll.

 

[FrozenJagrt]

Do y'all realise you're replying to 10 year old comments?

 

[Metroid]

Do y'all realise you're replying to 10 year old comments?

I just noticed
Thought this was an offseason thread. Lolol

 

[daveleaf]

Wasn't quinn supposed to sign him as well. Had a deal worked out but he wanted it signed that night and when it didn't happen he pulled it? Ended up in Manhattan.