Why did the Leafs let Mason Marchment go? Late bloomers appreciation thread

[Bear of Bad News]

All of the people talking about how dumb the Leafs are must have been taking a siesta during the trade itself:

Confirmed Trade: - [TOR/FLA] Denis Malgin for Mason Marchment

forums.hfboards.com

90% of the trade discussion is talking about Malgin, other than when the thread was bumped a year later (by some guy who wasn't around for the initial trade either - seems to be a theme).

 

[Golden_Jet]

Because Dubas sucks at building winning hockey teams.

Funny now that he’s gone, leaf fans think so.
TBF there were a few that saw he wasn’t that great when he was still there, but just a few.

 

[Sticksandsun]

My issue with the Leafs letting Marchment go was that he was clearly a late bloomer who was improving gradually but relatively substantially every year.

Yes, he was an AHLer and fourth liner at best when we traded him but he hadn't yet stalled in his development in any way. Did anyone think he was going to be this good? No, but was he most likely going to be better than the time we traded him? His development curve said yes - he was improving every single year.

He also brought a style of play the Leafs lacked for a while, funny how Knies is eerily similar to what Marchment has become.

Why can't more Leafs fans be like you?
Very good post above.

 

[Zbynek]

Dubas moment

 

[Glacious]

Leafs had him developing as a prospect for years before that . This very much was not just a 4 game sample size .

It was a bad trade not neccessarily because of Marchment himself and what he's become since but because Denis Malgin was such a nothing player already at the time of the trade. Just pointless to move a prospect you'd been developing for years for a guy like Malgin.

Seems you had a very different opinion in post #10 of the below referenced trade thread.

All of the people talking about how dumb the Leafs are must have been taking a siesta during the trade itself:

Confirmed Trade: - [TOR/FLA] Denis Malgin for Mason Marchment

forums.hfboards.com

90% of the trade discussion is talking about Malgin, other than when the thread was bumped a year later (by some guy who wasn't around for the initial trade either - seems to be a theme).

Things certainly change and hindsight is 20/20 but just thought it was funny to see the 180 so clearly.

 

[Peasy]

Funny now that he’s gone, leaf fans think so.
TBF there were a few that saw he wasn’t that great when he was still there, but just a few.

Changing opinions based on new received information is a great character trait to have.

There are still many people that defend him to death.

 

[serp]

Seems you had a very different opinion in post #10 of the below referenced trade thread.


Things certainly change and hindsight is 20/20 but just thought it was funny to see the 180 so clearly.

Well yeah i'm some random Stars fan who has no idea about Leafs prospects . Not sure i even looked at his elite prospect page back then lol.

It was a wrong opinion back then i will admit that now. Happy ?

 

[HockeyVirus]

Funny now that he’s gone, leaf fans think so.
TBF there were a few that saw he wasn’t that great when he was still there, but just a few.

Not sure if serious. Like most things, people had different opinions but the last few years Dubas was basically talked about nonstop and how terrible he was by Leaf fans.

I was a Dubas fan, I liked a lot of what he did. But objectively he failed to find the Leafs real goaltending and he failed to prioritize the defense, but had a coach who wanted to play the trap in the playoffs. Roster construction and how they played didn't match.

Treliving seems on the same page with his coach at least. Every GM has their issues though.

 

[Goose]

As a Leafs fan, good for him, glad he's found success and a fulltime gig in the NHL, but let's not pretend this is like the Rask or Kessel trades or something.

It was a low-level trade that took some time to bear fruit, nobody should feel like the Leafs got robbed or missed a diamond in the rough or something.

This is a very clear example of hindsight being 20/20. Leafs had Robertson and Mikheyev etc. and even guys like Der-Arguchintsev, who never panned out.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think there are two things here:

- one Marchment didn’t have eye popping AHL production and his skating was a concern. Therefore many (on the Leaf board) felt his ceiling was limited to a fourth liner. But to Marchment’s credit he found success on a team who put in a successful position. I don’t know if he does the same thing in Toronto.

- at the same time a player of Marchment style didn’t fit they style if team Dubas and Keefe were trying to build. An up tempo team with speed and skill. As we saw this blueprint for the club was a failure.

Please let this myth die. Marchment didn’t fit the speedy team Dubas was trying to build by acquiring speed skaters like Tavares, Ritchie, Thornton, Foligno, O’Rielly, Lyubushkin, and co while trading away slow guys like Kapanen, Engvall, Johnsson.

 

[hotpaws]

Please let this myth die. Marchment didn’t fit the speedy team Dubas was trying to build by acquiring speed skaters like Tavares, Ritchie, Thornton, Foligno, O’Rielly, Lyubushkin, and co while trading away slow guys like Kapanen, Engvall, Johnsson.

nice to see the Dubas fan club still has the alarm bells sounding off in there homes every time someone isn't praising him as the greatest hockey mind in the history of the game , lol

got to ask , how much and for how long does the idiot have to fail before you'll finally admit how incompetent your hero is ?

 

[Martin Skoula]

nice to see the Dubas fan club still has the alarm bells sounding off in there homes every time someone isn't praising him as the greatest hockey mind in the history of the game , lol

got to ask , how much and for how long does the idiot have to fail before you'll finally admit how incompetent your hero is ?

I like watching fast skilled teams, that’s going to be an ugly word for any Toronto GM for a decade because of Dubas talking about it and fans buying up the narrative even though he never actually built a fast or skilled team and actively made it slower every year.

In what way is this a defense of the guy, I want to be accurate about the mistakes in his roster building instead of living in some fantasy land where we apparently went all-in on speed and skill because we had 30 games of a small 4th liner. Trading Marchment was a mistake on either pro scouting or trying to be the smartest guy in the room with some moneyball stats on Malgin, has nothing to do with Marchment not fitting the “speed and skill” game.

 

[hotpaws]

I like watching fast skilled teams, that’s going to be an ugly word for any Toronto GM for a decade because of Dubas talking about it and fans buying up the narrative even though he never actually built a fast or skilled team and actively made it slower every year.

In what way is this a defense of the guy, I want to be accurate about the mistakes in his roster building instead of living in some fantasy land where we apparently went all-in on speed and skill because we had 30 games of a small 4th liner. Trading Marchment was a mistake on either pro scouting or trying to be the smartest guy in the room with some moneyball stats on Malgin, has nothing to do with Marchment not fitting the “speed and skill” game.

the problem with your hero was his obsession with acquiring smufs , it had nothing to do with people having an issue with ''fast/skilled'' players since they don't also have to be smurfs

 

[Antropovsky]

Look at all the people here who called this a fumble by the Leafs four years ago:

Confirmed Trade: - [TOR/FLA] Denis Malgin for Mason Marchment

"Marchment is trash and won't even be an NHLer. I'll take it"

"make no mistake Mason Marchment isn't an NHL guy"

Unless Leafs fans were watching AHL games, there wasn’t much to go on with Marchment because he barely got a chance for the Leafs.

I also recall reading the Dallas board and fans were complaining about his so-so contributions early last year. So it seems hes had a bit of a transformation there. Florida also seemed to give up on him, for the price paid anyway.

As for Leafs management giving up on Marchment, it fits with Dubas’ tendency to look for diamonds in the roug, usually smaller, skilled players. He traded Marchment for Malgin. Dubas believed in puck possession hockey, and big, tough players typically aren’t as good at moving the puck. The early Dubas era was defined by its complete lack of gritty players, Babs once kinda famously was asked about the Leafs lack of gritty players and he deflected it by saying “Our power play is our toughness.”

Another example was when Dubas traded Par Lindholm for Nik Petan at the deadline, right before the playoffs. Lindholm wasn’t flashy but was reliable, was 52% on the draw, played big PK minutes. It’s rare for a GM to trade away solid center depth heading into the playoffs for a high-risk prospect who struggled defensively. But Dubas did it! It was cute when Dubas was caught on the broadcast high fiving in the booth after Petan scored in his first game. Obviously we know how Petan turned out.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Every team has a list of lost players who bloomed elsewhere

 

[Rants Mulliniks]

The league has rules in place to prevent the financially successful from having advantage over the non-successful in an attempt to make them relevant and win them the odd Cup.

 

[Smif]

Look at all the people here who called this a fumble by the Leafs four years ago:

Confirmed Trade: - [TOR/FLA] Denis Malgin for Mason Marchment

"Marchment is trash and won't even be an NHLer. I'll take it"

"make no mistake Mason Marchment isn't an NHL guy"

Tbh, when we called him up for 4 games to get a look at him he looked so out of place, he looked like he could barely skate. I am shocked he has turned out the way he has but glad he figured it out.. Definitely would've been a nice player on our wing right now.

 

[MCR74]

Funny now that he’s gone, leaf fans think so.
TBF there were a few that saw he wasn’t that great when he was still there, but just a few.

Leaf fans aren't the only ones. He hasn't exactly built a winner in Pittsburgh.

 

[ToDavid]

It was a bad trade. Not so much because of the players’ actual value at the time. But because only one of them really had the chance to be something unique.

At absolute best, Malgin becomes a decent small depth scorer, the type that you could pick up off waivers in any given October. Marchment was a loooong shot at the time, but if he makes it he’s a 6’5” asshole who’s going to be a nightmare to play against.

 

[kvladimir]

Players like Verhaeghe and Forsling, among many others, don't really belong in this conversation. When multiple teams let someone go for essentially nothing, them emerging as great players later is mostly just luck for whoever happened to have the player when that emergence finally began. Some players just don't show enough fast enough to wait on, especially since waivers exists...

 

[PaulD]

Back then, he gave 0 indication he had that in him. Usually with prospects there is a part of their game that shows you they will be an NHLer if they develop other aspects. Marchment just looked average at best in all aspects.

so shy did the leafs have him?
and the little player they replaced him with? .....his resume shone compared to Marchnents did it?
They missed the boat there ....should be easy to admit. Happens to every team.
Dubas could have had Sam Bennet too.

 

[HolyGhost]

All of the people talking about how dumb the Leafs are must have been taking a siesta during the trade itself:

Confirmed Trade: - [TOR/FLA] Denis Malgin for Mason Marchment

forums.hfboards.com

90% of the trade discussion is talking about Malgin, other than when the thread was bumped a year later (by some guy who wasn't around for the initial trade either - seems to be a theme).

WOW the comments in that thread. Not many people chest thumping saying it was a bad deal for the leafs

 

[Leafidelity]

Shoutout to the Panthers for letting the Leafs sign Stolarz. I definitely appreciate this late bloomer

 

[Sticksandsun]

Shoutout to the Panthers for letting the Leafs sign Stolarz. I definitely appreciate this late bloomer

How many playoff games has Stolarz had so far?

 

[Dust]

14 points in 41 playoff games, he was made to wear the Blue and White