Why did Quebec not get a team?

[AtlantaWhaler]

No current teams. But book it, one day it will happen.
Listen, if a MBL club can move from one place to another à la Oakland IS moving. .... I definitely believe one day it will again happen in the NHL

You really beleive that it will never happen again in the NHL?

Thought you were talking about one of my favorite teams, like my post was referring to

 

[Bradely]

They let Ottawa play in a substandard, albeit larger than Mullett, barn for their first couple seasons. The NHL just wasn't willing to slam the door shut on a bad situation until it was clear it was a long-term rather than temp thing, and they then did shut the door.

And wait, what? You're complaining about concessions having reasonably priced items? How on earth is that bad?

Good for the fans, not complaining about reasonably price item...just an observation that Canadian team don't have to give hot dogs and beer at 2$ to get people in an arena for a hockey game.

Nothing wrong. It is what it is.

Thought you were talking about one of my favorite teams, like my post was referring to

No I lost the Nord in 95. I understand you more than you think.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

I get wanting more teams, but "our teams can price gouge more than American teams" is an odd take.

Also, those are assuredly prices for their absolute smallest versions of everything.

But again, if a Canadian team can price gouge more, you'd think that a potential owner would be more willing for meet the expansion price.

 

[ORRFForever]

I am Canadian... just saying

Fair enough.

It's a moot point. We're getting screwed by the NHL and we have no one to blame but ourselves. That's why I never spend money to support the league. No other Canadian should either.

 

[Bradely]

Fair enough.

It's a moot point. We're getting screwed by the NHL and we have no one to blame but ourselves. That's why I never spend money to support the league.

Good for you. Coherent with your take and value. I respect that.
Have a nice one.

 

[ORRFForever]

Good for you. Coherent with your take and value. I respect that.
Have a nice one.

Thanks... I think.

You have a good night, too.

 

[tucker3434]

They wouldn't be if Canadian revenue stayed in Canada - which is what Rogers/TSN should insist on.

Why are we propping up your teams?

You aren’t…

Have said before, will say again, if Canada wanted to take their ball and go home, their revenue and valuations tank. Like it or not, Canadian franchises benefit immensely from the 25 American markets. It’s why they’re so happy to have us and continue to vote to allow new entrants.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

It might come to that at some point in the future. Based only on numbers, not taking all the question of cultural aspect (IMO hockey's more important to Canadian history and culture than for US folks), numbers are south of the border.

Yeah, with the present exchange rate, if some hypothetical owner of a new Canadian team were to pay a $1B USD expansion fee, it would be around $1.35B CAD. The numbers just aren't there for anybody in Canada to offer up this kind of money, which is why there are no new Canadian applications and probably will not be until the exchange rate improves.

It is not an NHL problem, it is a lack of Canadian applications problem. By contrast, the NHL expects to approve U.S. applications at the rate of about one every four years and their checks will clear. Notably, the Canadian owners will share in the expansion fees (in USD!) so none of them are complaining.

 

[ORRFForever]

You aren’t…

Have said before, will say again, if Canada wanted to take their ball and go home, their revenue and valuations tank. Like it or not, Canadian franchises benefit immensely from the 25 American markets. It’s why they’re so happy to have us and continue to vote to allow new entries.

The LEAFS will be worth what they're worth with or without U.S. teams. In fact, the other Canadian teams would be worth MORE if the Canadian teams shared ALL the Canadian revenue.

It's U.S. franchises that would falter when they can't pay the bills. When you have a half dozen U.S. franchises unable to meat payroll, U.S. values will drop like a stone.

Again, don't do us any favours. Canadian teams should keep the money at home. U.S. teams should do the same.

 

[Brookbank]

Yeah, with the present exchange rate, if some hypothetical owner of a new Canadian team were to pay a $1B USD expansion fee, it would be around $1.35B CAD. The numbers just aren't there for anybody in Canada to offer up this kind of money, which is why there are no new Canadian applications and probably will not be until the exchange rate improves.

It is not an NHL problem, it is a lack of Canadian applications problem. By contrast, the NHL expects to approve U.S. applications at the rate of about one every four years and their checks will clear. Notably, the Canadian owners will share in the expansion fees (in USD!) so none of them are complaining.

That's nonsense. I like how you write 1 b and then 1.35 b , as if this shows that the CAD is a 3rd world currency or something. The owners of the Winnipeg Jets have more money than the owners of the Dallas Cowboys.

The fact is , today's corporate culture puts a premium on growth. Which is why the NHL just loves the idea of creating new hockey fans. Growing the pie. Instead of just taking Canadians money. Taking money from Canadians is too easy.

A team in Hamilton would instantly be the 5th most grossing team in the league. But the NHL chose to incinerate 100 million dollars in the desert instead. You are trying to come up with rational reason's for irrational things.

 

[ORRFForever]

That's nonsense. I like how you write 1 b and then 1.35 b , as if this shows that the CAD is a 3rd world currency or something. The owners of the Winnipeg Jets have more money than the owners of the Dallas Cowboys.

The fact is , today's corporate culture puts a premium on growth. Which is why the NHL just loves the idea of creating new hockey fans. Growing the pie. Instead of just taking Canadians money. Taking money from Canadians is too easy.

A team in Hamilton would instantly be the 5th most grossing team in the league. But the NHL chose to incinerate 100 million dollars in the desert instead. You are trying to come up with rational reason's for irrational things.

If I was an American, I would say, "Give Canada another franchise (or 2)". After all, what do they care?

However, there are some posters (not directed at anyone) who love to see the NHL stick it to Canada.

**

As for Hamilton, let Bob Young buy and run an NHL team with the Ticats. A win-win. Of course, the Leafs (and Sabres) don't want to share the market.

To hell with all of them. Don't give the NHL your money - I don't.

 

[willy702]

The LEAFS will be worth what they're worth with or without U.S. teams. In fact, the other Canadian teams would be worth MORE if the Canadian teams shared ALL the Canadian revenue.

It's U.S. franchises that would falter when they can't pay the bills. When you have a half dozen U.S. franchises unable to meat payroll, U.S. values will drop like a stone.

Again, don't do us any favours. Canadian teams should keep the money at home. U.S. teams should do the same.

If they split it up into two leagues like how soccer exists in most of the world the Canadian league would tank badly. Players will want to play in the US and most would shun Canada. And then when Canadian fans decide who to watch, are they going to stick with Canadian league games when they know the best players in the world are playing South of the border? Don't think so.

 

[ORRFForever]

If they split it up into two leagues like how soccer exists in most of the world the Canadian league would tank badly. Players will want to play in the US and most would shun Canada. And then when Canadian fans decide who to watch, are they going to stick with Canadian league games when they know the best players in the world are playing South of the border? Don't think so.

They're not going to go to the U.S. when there is far more money in Canada.

Like I said, split Canadian money 7, 8, 9, 10 ways. Split the U.S. money 25 ways. We'll see how things play out.

**

It's a moot point. It's not going to happen and TSN/Rogers are NOT going to stand up for Canada so...

One more time before I leave this thread that's going in circles... Do NOT give the NHL your money!!!!

 

[Bradely]

The fact is , today's corporate culture puts a premium on growth. Which is why the NHL just loves the idea of creating new hockey fans. Growing the pie. Instead of just taking Canadians money. Taking money from Canadians is too easy.

That is my take. Canadian market don't have alot to grow, while in the US it is. New fans, big numbers, TV rating and money etc...
NHL is going south of the border..... and part of the financial support provided by Canadian fan!

 

[VivaLasVegas]

That's nonsense. I like how you write 1 b and then 1.35 b , as if this shows that the CAD is a 3rd world currency or something. The owners of the Winnipeg Jets have more money than the owners of the Dallas Cowboys.

The fact is , today's corporate culture puts a premium on growth. Which is why the NHL just loves the idea of creating new hockey fans. Growing the pie. Instead of just taking Canadians money. Taking money from Canadians is too easy.

A team in Hamilton would instantly be the 5th most grossing team in the league. But the NHL chose to incinerate 100 million dollars in the desert instead. You are trying to come up with rational reason's for irrational things.

For clarification:

(1) Isn't $1B USD equal to $1.35B CAD?

(2) Do the uber-rich owners of the Jets have an application for an expansion franchise pending? If not, why not?

(3) Are there any current applications for expansion in Canada pending?

(4) Would the Leafs' owners approve a franchise in Hamilton?

(5) Didn't the NHL ultimately receive a $200M relocation fee for the Phoenix-Utah move which was split between all owners?

Thanks in advance!

 

[tucker3434]

The LEAFS will be worth what they're worth with or without U.S. teams. In fact, the other Canadian teams would be worth MORE if the 6 Canadian teams shared ALL the Canadian revenue.

It's U.S. franchises that would falter when they can't pay the bills. When you have a half dozen U.S. franchises unable to meat payroll, U.S. values will drop like a stone.

Again, don't do us any favours. Canadian teams should keep the money at home. U.S. teams should do the same.

Yeah, I’m sure 13 games against Ottawa would do wonders for gate revenues, viewership, and advertising.

Most of the teams that pay into revenue sharing are American. 2 out of 7 Canadian teams are on the take. If you wanted to build a wall around the Canadian revenue, fine, but I’d be willing to bet Canadian owners aren’t as willing to completely untether themselves from the +35% USD, considering it’s the currency of their largest expense line item. That’s what you’d call short sighted.

 

[Bradely]

Yeah, with the present exchange rate, if some hypothetical owner of a new Canadian team were to pay a $1B USD expansion fee, it would be around $1.35B CAD. The numbers just aren't there for anybody in Canada to offer up this kind of money, which is why there are no new Canadian applications and probably will not be until the exchange rate improves.

It is not an NHL problem, it is a lack of Canadian applications problem. By contrast, the NHL expects to approve U.S. applications at the rate of about one every four years and their checks will clear. Notably, the Canadian owners will share in the expansion fees (in USD!) so none of them are complaining.

IMO it is an evidence, that there is more potentiel growth down south than IN Canada where IMO it is a mature market. Not even sur with immigration that hockey will not lose some fans thru the years to other sport like MLS...

The bold part will always be the bottom line. Owners will always take the pay check.

On a culturel basis, I am not sure that the NHL is a good thing for the Canadian fan base. NHL is now an American product.

 

[Dr Amazing]

Because that's why.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

On a cultural basis, I am not sure that the NHL is a good thing for the Canadian fan base. NHL is now an American product.

That's another thing that is confusing:

HFBoards: Hockey is part of the cultural fabric of Canada.

Also HFBoards: Youth hockey in Canada is dying.

A reasonable conclusion would be that hockey is part of the cultural fabric of older Canadians, but younger Canadians not so much.

By contrast, youth hockey in the U.S. is growing, albeit slowly (which should not be surprising considering the high capital cost of building new rinks as opposing to mowing down a pasture and calling it a soccer field, football field, or baseball diamond -- basketball you just need to drop a concrete rectangle, put up two posts and call it a day). USA Hockey player membership analysis for 2023-24 - Sound Of Hockey

 

[Bradely]

That's another thing that is confusing:

HFBoards: Hockey is part of the cultural fabric of Canada.

Also HFBoards: Youth hockey in Canada is dying.

A reasonable conclusion would be that hockey is part of the cultural fabric of older Canadians, but younger Canadians not so much. By contrast, youth hockey in the U.S. is growing, albeit slowly (which should not be surprising considering the high capital cost of building new rinks as opposing to mowing down a pasture and calling it a soccer field). USA Hockey player membership analysis for 2023-24 - Sound Of Hockey

I do think this might be correct (bold).

I don't want to be rude or disrespectful toward American, but Hockey imo is still (tendencies might change) more important to Canadian than to Americain. Saying differently is IMO not understandable.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

I don't want to be rude or disrespectful toward American, but Hockey imo is still (tendencies might change) more important to Canadian than to Americain. Saying differently is IMO not understandable.

A point easily conceded by us Americanos. Hockey is hardly anything like fabric of American society, or if it is then it is a very thin and single microfibre thread, although this may be slightly different in parts of the New England region. In most places, hockey is at best just an optional sport followed by those fans who don't follow the masses and watch one of the other major sports, professional or college. This can still be a big number, but fabric, no. Of course not.

Seems like the more pertinent question is whether hockey will continue to be part of the Canadian cultural fabric as newer generations may start to follow other entertainment options and youth pursue other sports.

 

[Bradely]

A point easily conceded by us Americanos. Hockey is hardly anything like fabric of American society, or if it is then it is a very thin and single microfibre thread, although this may be slightly different in parts of the New England region. In most places, hockey is at best just an optional sport followed by those fans who don't follow the masses and watch one of the other major sports, professional or college. This can still be a big number, but fabric, no. Of course not.

Seems like the more pertinent question is whether hockey will continue to be part of the Canadian cultural fabric as newer generations may start to follow other entertainment options and youth pursue other sports.

Yep, I think this is a fair question. Will younger folks and immigration have the same attachment toward hockey as my generation! Time will tell.

 

[ORRFForever]

I wasn't going to post here, again. There is nothing new to say but I saw this article.

Chris Selley: Rise up Canadian billionaires, against Gary Bettman and the NHL

Rogers' MLSE will deliver success as rarely as its Bell partnership did, yet Toronto is stuck with just one team and other cities go without

nationalpost.com

Chris is saying something similar to what I've said - TSN and Rogers having pride in Canada and force the issue.

 

[Bradely]

I wasn't going to post here, again. There is nothing new to say but I saw this article.

Chris Selley: Rise up Canadian billionaires, against Gary Bettman and the NHL

Rogers' MLSE will deliver success as rarely as its Bell partnership did, yet Toronto is stuck with just one team and other cities go without

nationalpost.com

Chris is saying something similar to what I've said - TSN and Rogers having pride in Canada and force the issue.

It is a question of what NHL wants and the governors want... not only billionaire willingness.
IMO, NHL does not care about the Canadian mature market...money, numbers and growth potentiel are down south.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

It is a question of what NHL wants and the governors want... not only billionaire willingness.
IMO, NHL does not care about the Canadian mature market...money, numbers and growth potentiel are down south.

That article says what I've been saying all along, which is that there is no current billionaire interest in another Canadian team.

I'll leave it to the rest of you to debate why that is, but all these other discussion are no more than academic without that.