Why did Quebec not get a team?
- Thread starter nilan30
- Start date
I was considering creating a new thread, but decided to bump the last thread we had on Quebec.
Last time around I was pretty much on the side that they would never get another team. But in reading that Atlanta is being considered YET again.. I am no longer against Quebec getting another team.
With Atlanta I see a lot of spit balling that it was all the owners. Here is the thing. When they moved the last team to Canada.. there was not a lot out pouring of grief when the team left. I work in aviation and spent a lot of time down there over the years.
It seems to me the biggest reason why people want another team is they talk about population and stuff like that. Curious to know how many of those people actually spend time in the city? Atlanta fans of any sport are picky. Like many cities, if a team is winning the will come out but if a team sucks? Not so much.
I personally think it is time to consider Quebec for another team if Atlanta is under consideration
Last time around I was pretty much on the side that they would never get another team. But in reading that Atlanta is being considered YET again.. I am no longer against Quebec getting another team.
With Atlanta I see a lot of spit balling that it was all the owners. Here is the thing. When they moved the last team to Canada.. there was not a lot out pouring of grief when the team left. I work in aviation and spent a lot of time down there over the years.
It seems to me the biggest reason why people want another team is they talk about population and stuff like that. Curious to know how many of those people actually spend time in the city? Atlanta fans of any sport are picky. Like many cities, if a team is winning the will come out but if a team sucks? Not so much.
I personally think it is time to consider Quebec for another team if Atlanta is under consideration
CanadienShark
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2012
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Dream on. Seriously, even as a Montreal fan I hope they get one, but I'll be pessimistic until I see evidence of actual progress. Many people (I'm not sure I agree), will cite "tapping into a new market".
The issue is ownership and the willingness to pay the now huge expansion fee.
If there was an owner standing with the expansion fee and an arena deal in Quebec, the argument could be made if the nhl opted against that owner for another market.
But as best as I can tell there really isn’t. The nhl isn’t so flush with willing buyers that there’s really an option. What city gets considered vs what city doesn’t is as simple as “what city has someone willing to foot the bill and what city doesn’t”.
If there was an owner standing with the expansion fee and an arena deal in Quebec, the argument could be made if the nhl opted against that owner for another market.
But as best as I can tell there really isn’t. The nhl isn’t so flush with willing buyers that there’s really an option. What city gets considered vs what city doesn’t is as simple as “what city has someone willing to foot the bill and what city doesn’t”.
John Mandalorian
2022 Avs: The First Dance
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This may not have received a lot of attention in Canada but it might be in play here. Several years ago, American college football had a summer of mayhem where teams shifted to other conferences. The conference worth mentioning here is the SEC. For years there had been discussion of FSU joining the SEC. But they already had a team from Florida in the SEC. So the expansion at the time became about eyes on TVs in geographic regions (ie states) where the SEC had no representation. And this was the impetus for the SEC adding Texas A&M and Missouri (St Louis and 2/3 KC).
Given the importance of tv contracts, why would this be different? Quebec already has a team. Georgia does not. And yes,Texas already has a team but Houston is the third largest city in the US. If the NHL catches on in Houston, the upside is huge especially in moving to having more revenue from tv contracts and being less reliant on attendance revenue.
Also guessing that NHL has watched what has happened with the Braves and their stadium in the burbs and feel like this might be an example to follow.
Given the importance of tv contracts, why would this be different? Quebec already has a team. Georgia does not. And yes,Texas already has a team but Houston is the third largest city in the US. If the NHL catches on in Houston, the upside is huge especially in moving to having more revenue from tv contracts and being less reliant on attendance revenue.
Also guessing that NHL has watched what has happened with the Braves and their stadium in the burbs and feel like this might be an example to follow.
Jack Spider
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- Jun 2, 2022
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The Gr8 Dane
L'harceleur
The market is tiny and doesn't have a particularly rich , thriving and spendful population , I'd wager that's much more of an issue than any language issues.
Get your population up and get your money up and then ask for a team , all they are banking on is nostalgia and it won't cut it for QC
Get your population up and get your money up and then ask for a team , all they are banking on is nostalgia and it won't cut it for QC
archangel2
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- May 19, 2019
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If Atlanta is being considered, so should Quebec. And yes they have a guy will to pay the expansion fee.
The Bettman strategy has always been to get a foothold in non-traditional hockey markets with big populations and then hang around until people warm up to the game. Hence expansion rules that make these teams competitive right out of the gate. It’s much easier to warm up to a team that’s good.
I have to imagine one of the greatest barriers to NHL “legitimacy” in the US, is the fact that most Americans don’t care to know where or what places like Winnipeg are. These places possibly tarnish the image of the NHL as folks picture frozen tundra and people living in igloos in the sticks.
I have to imagine one of the greatest barriers to NHL “legitimacy” in the US, is the fact that most Americans don’t care to know where or what places like Winnipeg are. These places possibly tarnish the image of the NHL as folks picture frozen tundra and people living in igloos in the sticks.
No Fun Shogun
34-38-61-10-13-15
PKP/Quebecor were very vocal about wanting a team until the expansion price was announced, and they’ve been absolutely silent ever since then (especially as the asking price has doubled).
Quebec isn’t getting a team because the party that could potentially bid on a team got priced out. All there is to it. They don’t want to spend a billion+ dollars on an NHL team there.
Quebec isn’t getting a team because the party that could potentially bid on a team got priced out. All there is to it. They don’t want to spend a billion+ dollars on an NHL team there.
madhi19
Just the tip!
Quebec put all it's eggs in the basket case of a bipolar guy who not interested anymore. Probably never really was in the first place. The Nordiques was the Ex-wife thing, so he a made low ball offer that went nowhere. The problem is Quebecor now control the arena. Until the city can get them out of the picture, I don't see a serious bid coming.
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
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More so a small corporate population. Tv contracts are one thing, but corporate dollars and sponsorship is a big part of it. Who buys luxury boxes in Quebec City? Who pays for those $200-400 a game luxury seats in the lower bowl consistently?
It is the same problem in Ottawa. You can have a ton of regular fan support, but the real key is the business dollars backing a team.
Quebec is a Government town, and the Government is heavily scrutinized on how they spend their money (They can't buy Suites and Season tickets). Hardly any large Corporations exist in Quebec City that can buy all the luxury suites and season tickets. You absolutely need a ton of Corporate sponsorships, and although Peladeau (who built the Arena) would offer some, he can't do everything. It's a very small population, good part of them working on Government salaries. Would maybe work for first 5-6 years, but eventually they would have to move again.
Fatass
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Likely lots of players from Europe would love to have an nhl team in Quebec City. It has a charm that gives it the feel of a smaller European city, so the guys would feel more at home. Can’t think of a better city for the nhl from a charm pov. But the owner would need to incredibly wealthy because the city, although charming, doesn’t have the economic base to support an nhl franchise. The rabid and passionate fans are there though; that’s for sure.
Viqsi
"that chick from Ohio"
Similar considerations went into adding Maryland and Rutgers to the B1G. DC/Baltimore and New York City markets.
Oh, what a fun thread. The shitting on the Panthers was an extra special delight. "But Florida Panthers are a waste of time. And that market i know well."
Clearly some people were/are misinformed about the Panthers and their attendance situation.
This has been said then, before then, and now. But the Panthers never had any success on ice for most of their history until recently. And the attendance showed that. When the Panthers eventually were to become successful on the ice, the attendance would show it (just like most markets outside of Canada). It's not "a terrible market". They didn't have any history except losing. They hadn't built a fanbase yet because of that. And oh, what do you know. They start having sustained success on the ice, and the attendance and fanbase grows.
And oh this is especially to @MSSLYNX. Mr. "I know that market":
The Panthers and Broward County agree on a lease extension
Clearly some people were/are misinformed about the Panthers and their attendance situation.
This has been said then, before then, and now. But the Panthers never had any success on ice for most of their history until recently. And the attendance showed that. When the Panthers eventually were to become successful on the ice, the attendance would show it (just like most markets outside of Canada). It's not "a terrible market". They didn't have any history except losing. They hadn't built a fanbase yet because of that. And oh, what do you know. They start having sustained success on the ice, and the attendance and fanbase grows.
And oh this is especially to @MSSLYNX. Mr. "I know that market":
The Panthers and Broward County agree on a lease extension
Last edited:
MessierII
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Bettman has always viewed Canada this way. It’s a safety net. Unless they do add 4 more teams like they’ve talked about in that case I think Quebec would get a team.
KevinRedkey
12/18/23 and beyond!
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JianYang
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Quebec is a romantic idea but I don't think the nhl has ever been in love with the idea even when they were in the league.
The nords just happened to be one of the four wha teams when the nhl basically bought out the competition. 75% of those teams (Hartford Quebec, and winnipeg) would leave a couple decades later), and the other team (Edmonton) was in peril during the 90s as well.
Now winnipeg came back, but that was a perfect storm scenario where Atlanta needed to move quickly and none of the bigger markets had their ducks in order at that particular moment for the move to occur the way winnipeg did.
Quebec would need a similar perfect storm to come back, but it appears those conditions don't exist anymore as there are multiple other cities that appear ready or have a concrete plan in place.
Look to Quebec as an insurance for the league incase the bigger, more tantalizing markets are not available at the particular time.
Why is quebec not appealing? It just comes down to money. A team in Quebec doesn't move the needle in the US as far broadcasting revenue or sponsorship, and during downswings of economic times, a team like Quebec will be very vulnerable to stability issues.... heck we are hearing certain rumblings in winnipeg again.
The nords just happened to be one of the four wha teams when the nhl basically bought out the competition. 75% of those teams (Hartford Quebec, and winnipeg) would leave a couple decades later), and the other team (Edmonton) was in peril during the 90s as well.
Now winnipeg came back, but that was a perfect storm scenario where Atlanta needed to move quickly and none of the bigger markets had their ducks in order at that particular moment for the move to occur the way winnipeg did.
Quebec would need a similar perfect storm to come back, but it appears those conditions don't exist anymore as there are multiple other cities that appear ready or have a concrete plan in place.
Look to Quebec as an insurance for the league incase the bigger, more tantalizing markets are not available at the particular time.
Why is quebec not appealing? It just comes down to money. A team in Quebec doesn't move the needle in the US as far broadcasting revenue or sponsorship, and during downswings of economic times, a team like Quebec will be very vulnerable to stability issues.... heck we are hearing certain rumblings in winnipeg again.
LuckyDay
Registered User
The province already has one team and that team has national and, arguably, international support.
Another team in Quebec would not add a market, it would split it. There's close to a zero sum gain doing that.
The Nordiques were grandfathered into the league because they were one of the 6 teams in the WHA that were relatively successful.
On the English question, this did become a problem for players not wanting to play there in it's last few years. Eric Lindros has to make it clear his reasons for not signing in QC were not the language but the market.
Of all the WHA cities, only Edmonton still exists and it's been touch and go even in the Gretzky era. The teams of that era were successful because ticket sales were virtually the only revenue for them. A new team would have to be prove they could add from their share of the broadcast rights instead of taking a piece from the existing teams.
Good ownership, one that actually will be the focus of their owners, in the suburbs outside, and not inside, Atlanta looks to be winnable.
What major regions in Canada don't have a team? The Atlantic provinces and Saskatchewan. As it is, most fans from the Atlantic region I know support either Boston or Montreal. Could they increase revenues for the league? Doubtful, though Saskatchewan could possibly sell out every night.
Another team in Quebec would not add a market, it would split it. There's close to a zero sum gain doing that.
The Nordiques were grandfathered into the league because they were one of the 6 teams in the WHA that were relatively successful.
On the English question, this did become a problem for players not wanting to play there in it's last few years. Eric Lindros has to make it clear his reasons for not signing in QC were not the language but the market.
Of all the WHA cities, only Edmonton still exists and it's been touch and go even in the Gretzky era. The teams of that era were successful because ticket sales were virtually the only revenue for them. A new team would have to be prove they could add from their share of the broadcast rights instead of taking a piece from the existing teams.
Good ownership, one that actually will be the focus of their owners, in the suburbs outside, and not inside, Atlanta looks to be winnable.
What major regions in Canada don't have a team? The Atlantic provinces and Saskatchewan. As it is, most fans from the Atlantic region I know support either Boston or Montreal. Could they increase revenues for the league? Doubtful, though Saskatchewan could possibly sell out every night.
LuckyDay
Registered User
GKJ
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Who is/are the owner(s), and do they have the money and structure, and can they convince the league that they don’t devalue the Canadiens?
Do they add enough to the media footprint?
Same questions we’ve always asked.
Also want to make clear that I’d love nothing more than for it to happen.
Do they add enough to the media footprint?
Same questions we’ve always asked.
Also want to make clear that I’d love nothing more than for it to happen.
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