Why did Quebec not get a team?

[Jumptheshark]

Around 2008-2011 was around par at lot of the time, there was one dip in there.
Also think was slightly higher a couple of times.
Then there is the export vs imports debate.

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[Golden_Jet]

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Thanks so like I said 2008-2011 last time and the blip when not around par looks like 2009. Don’t remember what happened around 2009.

 

[MessierII]

Quebec is simply too small of a hockey market in today's NHL, with today's franchise money. I don't see them ever getting another franchise as the NHL has outgrown their budget. The Canadian dollar will never allow them to, the tax situation in Canada, nor will there be a dramatic population increase to help make it a "large hockey center."


Canada and its weak dollar will not even be able to handle a relocation.

Depends on the owner. The extra 2-300 million is a lot for some but not so much for others. If they have a strong ownership group they could easily support a team.

 

[FerrisRox]

Baltimore? Orlando? Jacksonville? Cincinnati? Cleveland? Charlotte? Virginia Beach? Richmond? Jacksonville? Providence? They all have metro areas with at least 1.5 million people. And that's leaving out both Memphis and Birmingham, which are both over 1 million.

You forgot Jacksonville.

 

[rojac]

As I have said many times, just keep the Canadian TV money in Canada - and use that to support the Canadians teams. The U.S. teams can split the American TV money. In fact, keep ALL Canadian revenue North of the border.

Then you never have to worry about Canadian teams being profitable, again. A Win-Win.

So, Canadian teams should get $50M a year in national TV money and the US teams should get $26M. How many U.S. owners are going to vote to support that change?

 

[ORRFForever]

So, Canadian teams should get $50M a year in national TV money and the US teams should get $26M. How many U.S. owners are going to vote to support that change,

Pffft. It's not their money.

Plus, you're missing the point.

 

[Golden_Jet]

So, Canadian teams should get $50M a year in national TV money and the US teams should get $26M. How many U.S. owners are going to vote to support that change?

Canadian owners sent 75% of their TV money south, US owners had no issues taking that money. Not shocking since they didn’t have a TV deal that paid any money.
Both countries divide their TV money among their teams, seems good, especially with the dollar differential.

 

[ORRFForever]

Dear Gary :

Please give Canada another team. I'd prefer QC but, TBH, I don't care - southern Ontario will work just fine.

What's in it for you?

Well... It will shut us up about Canadian expansion... at least for a little while.

 

[Sniper99]

Dear Gary :

Please give Canada another team. I'd prefer QC but, TBH, I don't care - southern Ontario will work just fine.

What's in it for you?

Well... It will shut us up about Canadian expansion... at least for a little while.

or put one in Hamilton and tell Buffalo and Toronto to piss off.

 

[Spargon]

or put one in Hamilton and tell Buffalo and Toronto to piss off.

As someone who lives within 45 mins of Hamilton that would be fantastic. But I would never become a fan of the team, I will still be a Leafs fan. The Sens, Buffalo hell even Montreal whine Leaf fans overtake their arena. Any team in Hamilton will be way way worse. They will struggle to have a legit fanbase for just them without being the second team because southern Ontario. But if the logistics work bring it on. There are thousands of Leafs fans dying for affordable NHL hockey.

Find a source for you guys 'cause i was bored ->

Active NHL Players Born in Quebec ‑ 2023-2024 Stats Leaders

2023-2024 regular season statistics for active NHL players born in Quebec. Complete list of active players who were born in Quebec and played in NHL during the 2023-2024 regular season.

www.quanthockey.com

59 quebec born players played at least a game last year in the nhl, 42 of them played at least 20 games.
In the early 2000s, we used to have 100+ quebec born players active in the nhl, it's impressive how it's slowly dropping since then...

Some respectable names with decent careers but no superstars either. The times they are a changin

 

[cowboy82nd]

Sure you did, when you said, "and don't forget their deposit".


Because of the amount of NHL revenue that comes from Canada. Plus, fixing Q.C. would be the right thing to do.

If I remember correctly, the last time the NHL had expansion, Quebec City did not put up the non refundable deposit, therefore they didn’t have a chance. Never said anything about BCE not being able to afford it. You are just seeing what you want.

 

[ORRFForever]

If I remember correctly, the last time the NHL had expansion, Quebec City did not put up the non refundable deposit, therefore they didn’t have a chance. Never said anything about BCE not being able to afford it. You are just seeing what you want.

Fair enough. I misunderstood. My bad.

 

[Viqsi]

If the NHL did what they did for the Oilers, Coyotes etc for years, made a new owner keep the team in Atlanta vs allowing them to move asap, we'd see a different story.

They probably would have liked to, but ASG also owned the arena and were quoting deliberately predatory and ruinous rates for its use by any local ownership.

 

[cowboy82nd]

As I said, GJ, Canadians have no one to blame but ourselves. As Bruce Arthur once wrote (paraphrasing), "Canada is like the plain girl at the prom, forever trying to get the attention of the handsome valedictorian (the NHL) who ignores her".

Canadians pay obscene prices for NHL tickets, we watch on TV by the millions, we buy their crappy merchandise and we do everything we can to help the league but, when we ask for another team, we're told, "Sorry, the brothel's full".

I'll never spend another dollar on the NHL. Every Canadian should join me.

So, you'll never watch another NHL game?

 

[cowboy82nd]

Your post makes NO sense. What does keeping Canadian revenue in Canada to support Canadian teams have to do with the Canadian dollar or the P.M.?

The $350M Rogers pays to the NHL annually is in US$. Just split that among the CDN teams. The U.S. teams can keep their TV revenue and split it among their teams. Do that and we'll be just fine.

Why would the NHL do that? It makes no sense. So U.S. jersey sales only go to the U.S teams (and since they're more U.S. teams meaning more jerseys to sell) Canada teams only split jersey sales from Canadian teams. And if a Canadian team needs help, it only comes from Canadian teams? Why would the NHL limit themselves like this? It just doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

 

[Salsero1]

Why would the NHL do that? It makes no sense. So U.S. jersey sales only go to the U.S teams (and since they're more U.S. teams meaning more jerseys to sell) Canada teams only split jersey sales from Canadian teams. And if a Canadian team needs help, it only comes from Canadian teams? Why would the NHL limit themselves like this? It just doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

Because the Canadian and American owners must see each other adversarialy and want to undermine each other. Despite some Canadian guys owning teams in the US. That's how a 6 billion dollar enterprise succeeds.

 

[Stony Curtis]

The league's philosophy is to monetize every single thing to it's maximum potential. Every. Single. Time. Asking ourselves, "Why did they do that?" is a rhetorical question.

 

[joestevens29]

If the NHL did what they did for the Oilers, Coyotes etc for years, made a new owner keep the team in Atlanta vs allowing them to move asap, we'd see a different story.

Jets have shit attendance and aren't a bottom team. Atlanta had attendance, just awful owners. Huge difference in that situation. Bettman screwed Atlanta to bring the Jets back and the Jets barely have the attendance the Thrashers had their last few years whole being a better team in Canada because of hands off owners that weren't sabotaging the team.

I'd rather see Atlanta get a team than another Canadian one. For that bullshit they pulled on Atlanta, it's owed.

I really don't know what the NHL did for the Oilers. We were pretty much gone until local investors stepped up to the plate at the last minute

Why would the NHL do that? It makes no sense. So U.S. jersey sales only go to the U.S teams (and since they're more U.S. teams meaning more jerseys to sell) Canada teams only split jersey sales from Canadian teams. And if a Canadian team needs help, it only comes from Canadian teams? Why would the NHL limit themselves like this? It just doesn't make sense to me, sorry.

I mean if it was ever getting to that why would top Canadian/American teams want to help poor Canadian/American teams. Why not just keep all the money your team earns and who cares about the rest

 

[joestevens29]

The league's philosophy is to monetize every single thing to it's maximum potential. Every. Single. Time. Asking ourselves, "Why did they do that?" is a rhetorical question.

End of the day it's a business so it's really easy to see why they do this.

If Grocery stores aren't slashing their prices to help people out even though they are making piles of money, why would we expect an entertainment business to be any different?

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

That's probably why.

"15% of tickets against the Bruins and 30% against the Panthers are still available"

Edit: I cut it out when I cropped it, but it's from RDS

 

[LuckyDay]

The expansion to south Florida was approved the same day that Bettman was confirmed as commissioner (a job he wouldn't start for a few months), so I'm not sure how much, if anything, Gary had to cDo with it. That expansion also had more to do with getting Huzienga as an owner. If Huzienga had wanted a team in Ohio, I suspect they would have added a team in Ohio.

My understanding was that Gary was the key to that deal due to his connections with with him and Eisner. You think that was a coincidence that happened the same day?
The NHL was a bush league run by corrupt owners who had the presidents in their pocket.
Also, is Ohio the same size market as Florida?

That said, you are probably right if he was in Ohio or Indiana or Wisconsin it's likely he would have got a team there. But keep in mind the other controversy about the decision is Florida already a team and quite a recent one. In today's parlance, it made the team in TB look "sus".

 

[Bixby Snyder]

View attachment 909907

That's probably why.

"15% of tickets against the Bruins and 30% against the Panthers are still available"

Edit: I cut it out when I cropped it, but it's from RDS

It's not a major league market nor an NHL worthy market.

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter about the market size. It matters more about having an ownership group who is willing to pay an outrageous expansion fee that in no way is supported by the potential financial performance of the underlying organization.

If it was a purely financial decision, one of the added teams would be the 2nd team in the GTA.

 

[JianYang]

Depends on the owner. The extra 2-300 million is a lot for some but not so much for others. If they have a strong ownership group they could easily support a team.

Winnipeg has a very wealthy partner in their ownership group even by billionaire standards but you are seeing cracks in that market again.

It takes more than that.

With places like Quebec and Winnipeg, the margins for error are thin and when the economies go through downturns, these are the markets that would be most sensitive to those fluctuations.

 

[Richard]

I mean, last season Winnipeg, with the smallest arena in the league, didn't sell out. Unfortunately, Quebec doesn't have the corporate base of other contending marketplaces. It sucks but basically the entire lower bowl of the Penguin games and all of the boxes (obviously) are filled with corporate sheep. The "real fans" were priced out of hockey when the game transitioned from strong niche sport to "big 4" in the late 90's early 2000's. My uncle was paying 20$ a game in 1992 for a level A seat and it was 120$ a ticket in 2000 --- those levels of inflation don't exist (well, they haven't for a while) in the everyday marketplace. (btw, that equivalent ticket is now 300 bucks).

In 1988, my uncle paid 10$ a ticket. Think about THAT. His first season he paid about 800 for tickets and his last season -- just ten years later -- he paid $7,790 ! (95$ a ticket). Btw, a dollar in 1988 was worth 1.38 in 1998 so, if his tickets had merely kept up with inflation, he should have been spending roughly $1,132 for his tickets in 1998. Instead, 1 NHL dollar in 1988 was worth 9.74 NHL dollars in 1998