Why did nobody respond to the hit by Adam Mair ---I mean, Radko Gudas?

[Colt.45Orr]

I'm going to play pretty fast and loose with names and dates here, but I remember back when the Bruins were a heartless deadbeat team in 2008? and they called up a young, skinny rookie who took a late, targeted headshot from a dirty-rep vet and the young rookie (Krejci) was concussed and out. Nobody did anything about it because nobody wanted to step up to Mair. It was part of the crisis of identity that the team was facing at that point.

Tonight, Cazarnik, a little rookie, takes a targeted headshot from a dirty-rep vet, got concussed and taken out of the game and nobody did anything about it. What the blue hell?

If anybody says anything about the "2pts being important" that that would officially make you the dumbest poster on HFboards. Sure, the guys on the ice missed the hit but the replays were on the screen and they watch that like a hawk. As soon as Gudas' penalty was up, Kevin Miller was next to him on the boards and couldn't even have been bothered to give him a love-tap. I know the last year+ that Miller doesn't seem to want to fight guys that he isn't bigger than, but this challenge was a must for him. Miller/Gudas is a good trade-off for the Bruins on any night.

Backes threw a questionable hit tonight and was challenged immediately for it by a smaller Flyer. Gudas threw a dirty hit and the Bruins had a whole period to challenge him for it but we don't have the personal for it with this line-up.


I know there are posters who will respond by rationalizing away our lack of response (ignoring even that it was preseason) but the thing is that it will get worse. Chara has almost no interest or ability in fighting these days, same goes for the next biggest guy in Hayes. Many posters somehow want run Cup winner McQuaid out of town and this may be what is happening, while keeping Kevin Miller (again, willing to fight if the offense is on him and the player isn't too big).

It seems like Randell continues to be outside Julien's doghouse for no reason whatsoever so can we expect to see more instances of Krug fighting 230pd Stewart? The Habs brought in ******-bags like Andrew Shaw and the Leafs signed Matt Martin (and others) yet we looking to mimic the Penguins, or something.

To me, the answer is to move Hayes out of town. Backes' big frame take his place on the PP and we don't waste lots of $ using Hayes as a 4th line winger, where he will end up after a half dozen heartless efforts in a row and we can move Heinen into that grouping. Without PP time, we get Hayes for about 8mins of lumbering around. Randell could do that for a fraction of the price and bring an actual hitting/forechecking game while he's at it.

I'm kind of rambling here, but the tea-leafs seem to indicate that the Bruins may be moving McQuaid out with Carlo coming in and K. Miller having the new (terrible) contract is immune to being moved so Randell looks to be going on the waiver-wire with all the bodies still here. I hope I'm wrong.

Thoughts? Is this 2016/17 Bruins team tough enough? Could Randell play in about 50 games a year, while replace what Hayes brings to the table?

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[Pia8988]

Hayes for as much **** as he gets, is still a significantly better hockey player than Randell. Randell should be the 13th Forward and dress for heavier teams where punch might actually be needed. That said, he'd be on the ice with other 4th liners, so he most likely wouldn't be on the ice anyways when a skilled forward got hit. What if he gets turned down later, should he Thornton the guy? I think the protector is an overrated position. Randell dressing or not wouldn't stop Gudas from being a **** head.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Hayes for as much **** as he gets, is still a significantly better hockey player than Randell. Randell should be the 13th Forward and dress for heavier teams where punch might actually be needed. That said, he'd be on the ice with other 4th liners, so he most likely wouldn't be on the ice anyways when a skilled forward got hit. What if he gets turned down later, should he Thornton the guy? I think the protector is an overrated position. Randell dressing or not wouldn't stop Gudas from being a **** head.

I seriously don't know if I can agree with you.

Does Hayes score more points? Yes.

Is he an overall more effective player than Randell? I'm not so sure.

And, unlike the experts on here, I do think overall, all-encompassing effectiveness needs to be separated from point totals. It's not as easily quantified, but points = better is a very oversimplified way of watching the game, especially when you're talking about bottom six forwards.

 

[Pia8988]

I seriously don't know if I can agree with you.

Does Hayes score more points? Yes.

Is he an overall more effective player than Randell? I'm not so sure.

And, unlike the experts on here, I do think overall, all-encompassing effectiveness needs to be separated from point totals. It's not as easily quantified, but points = better is a very oversimplified way of watching the game, especially when you're talking about bottom six forwards.

People complain about Hayes being slow, but Randell trails the play worse. I didn't even bring up points. Hayes is much better on the forecheck, Hayes is better in all 3 zones.

Randell has shown good hands and an ability to find soft spots in the offensive zone. He has also shown an ability to rarely get to use any of these skills because he's unable to help his line get the puck. He is a significantly better fighter though.

The obvious answer is Claude is just an bad coach and won't see the greatness that is Tyler Randell.

For the record, I said if Randell improved his skating he should be a mainstay on the 4th line. I don't think he's done enough in that regard.

 

[Fenway]

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Gudas is an intent to injure machine. Someone should have responded. There are no 'two points' in preseason.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Hayes gets at least 2x as much playing time including prime PP time, so his points should be higher. The thing is is that Nash & Moore (sounds like a Western or law firm) should be our #1 PK tandem. That duo could get 4mins a night on the PK + 7mins ES --meaning that you only need your 4th line winger for 7mins a night while the rest of the 4th gets around 11mins. In that short amount of time, approx 7mins, I believe you would get your best bang-for-your buck with Randell for a variety of reasons.

 

[Pia8988]

Hayes got about 100 minutes of PP time last year resulting in 5 points (3G, 2A).

That is also an insane amount of SH Toi pergame. Chara led all players on the Bruins with 3:20 average last year. Bergeron and Marchand were just above 2 minutes each.

 

[Fenway]

Gudas is an intent to injure machine. Someone should have responded. There are no 'two points' in preseason.

No there are not 2 points involved but for players on the bubble are you starting the season in Columbus or Albany? For a secure vet do you want to risk a suspension.

This is no longer an enforcer league.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Hayes for as much **** as he gets, is still a significantly better hockey player than Randell. Randell should be the 13th Forward and dress for heavier teams where punch might actually be needed. That said, he'd be on the ice with other 4th liners, so he most likely wouldn't be on the ice anyways when a skilled forward got hit. What if he gets turned down later, should he Thornton the guy? I think the protector is an overrated position. Randell dressing or not wouldn't stop Gudas from being a **** head.

Thornton has been in over 300 fights and you bring up the 1 time that his challenge went bad? Backes threw a bad hit earlier and chose to answer the bell --where is the complicated hypothetical there? Gudas does fight, right? I mean, he obviously doesn't like to answer for his hits, but he will seeing as he has pride and all that unquantifiable stuff.

Anyway, I'm talking about a much broader team concept that is easy to understand if people don't try and spin it:


A team that allows itself to be intimidated and pushed around will eventually start playing like a team that is intimidated and gets pushed around.



The Adam Mair hit seemed to be a tipping point back in the day as that was a very soft team and franchise. By the time 2011 rolled around the Bruins were being called "The Big, Bad Bruins" but they weren't really either (going by avg. height/weight) but what they did have was a very close group with the ultimate pack mentality where if you targeted one player, someone would go looking for you.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

No there are not 2 points involved but for players on the bubble are you starting the season in Columbus or Albany? For a secure vet do you want to risk a suspension.

This is no longer an enforcer league.

How would Kevin Miller get a suspension for challenging Gudas to a fight in the same manner that Backes was challenged?

 

[Fenway]

How would Kevin Miller get a suspension for challenging Gudas to a fight in the same manner that Backes was challenged?

I can't answer that except to say it must have been a coach's decision.

 

[pierre gagnon*]

Fighting even though I see a reason for it is going out in a few years. I like Randells scroring but the rest of his game is AHL, Like Chris Bourque or Koko. Hayes is not great and may well be gone but he is a better player for 60 minute game. Beating up Gudas would have been good but Czarnik is probably still going be concused the same way Savard was when we were tougher, it did not help then. Idiot players are still going do bad stuff, league needs to step in here. Same way I do not want Rinaldo out there, they cannot control it all the time weed out Gudas.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I'm going to play pretty fast and loose with names and dates here, but I remember back when the Bruins were a heartless deadbeat team in 2008? and they called up a young, skinny rookie who took a late, targeted headshot from a dirty-rep vet and the young rookie (Krejci) was concussed and out. Nobody did anything about it because nobody wanted to step up to Mair. It was part of the crisis of identity that the team was facing at that point.

Tonight, Cazarnik, a little rookie, takes a targeted headshot from a dirty-rep vet, got concussed and taken out of the game and nobody did anything about it. What the blue hell?

If anybody says anything about the "2pts being important" that that would officially make you the dumbest poster on HFboards. Sure, the guys on the ice missed the hit but the replays were on the screen and they watch that like a hawk. As soon as Gudas' penalty was up, Kevin Miller was next to him on the boards and couldn't even have been bothered to give him a love-tap. I know the last year+ that Miller doesn't seem to want to fight guys that he isn't bigger than, but this challenge was a must for him. Miller/Gudas is a good trade-off for the Bruins on any night.

Backes threw a questionable hit tonight and was challenged immediately for it by a smaller Flyer. Gudas threw a dirty hit and the Bruins had a whole period to challenge him for it but we don't have the personal for it with this line-up.


I know there are posters who will respond by rationalizing away our lack of response (ignoring even that it was preseason) but the thing is that it will get worse. Chara has almost no interest or ability in fighting these days, same goes for the next biggest guy in Hayes. Many posters somehow want run Cup winner McQuaid out of town and this may be what is happening, while keeping Kevin Miller (again, willing to fight if the offense is on him and the player isn't too big).

It seems like Randell continues to be outside Julien's doghouse for no reason whatsoever so can we expect to see more instances of Krug fighting 230pd Stewart? The Habs brought in ******-bags like Andrew Shaw and the Leafs signed Matt Martin (and others) yet we looking to mimic the Penguins, or something.

To me, the answer is to move Hayes out of town. Backes' big frame take his place on the PP and we don't waste lots of $ using Hayes as a 4th line winger, where he will end up after a half dozen heartless efforts in a row and we can move Heinen into that grouping. Without PP time, we get Hayes for about 8mins of lumbering around. Randell could do that for a fraction of the price and bring an actual hitting/forechecking game while he's at it.

I'm kind of rambling here, but the tea-leafs seem to indicate that the Bruins may be moving McQuaid out with Carlo coming in and K. Miller having the new (terrible) contract is immune to being moved so Randell looks to be going on the waiver-wire with all the bodies still here. I hope I'm wrong.

Thoughts? Is this 2016/17 Bruins team tough enough? Could Randell play in about 50 games a year, while replace what Hayes brings to the table?

Because nobody has ever been able to find correlation between "standing up" and "making someone answer the bell" and a decline in cheap shots. It may make you (or even the players on the team) feel better but it irrefutably does nothing about the hit that just happened and does nothing to deter future hits.

Radko Gudas has fought before. He will fight again. He isn't afraid of fighting. A deterrence only deters if it is an outcome someone wants to avoid. Furthermore, I have seen a study (not saying it's conclusive, but it's evidence) that teams with enforcers see no fewer injuries to their team, and in fact suffer more.

"Toughness" won't stop hits like this. Never have. Never will. This team was "tough" when Savard got hit. They were "tough" when Bergeron got hit. They were "tough" when Andrew Alberts got hit in the head when he was on his knees.

I want the best 23 players on the team and gifting a spot to a guy who does nothing to help a team win seems like a waste of a spot.

 

[DKH]

I don't see this as an indictment on the organization at all. The game is changing so much I don't even think anymore of having a team that can fight. If it wasn't for this I wouldn't have even been aware of my change in philosophy. The players have so much respect for each other by and large predators like Gudas are becoming rarer and rarer.

I was there and wasn't really sure what happened other than they pos Gudas was the guy. Should they have reacted probably but I'm not as bothered as I used to be. Kevan Miller was there but not sure what he saw and he 100% is a stand up team guy and tough

The 2011 Bruins were an anomaly and belong in a scrap book never to be forgotten- but the league is different as most players realize you can destroy a life with a head shot not a just a career

Give Gudas 10 games as a start and see if that dumb ass can understand it m

He's the problem not the Bruins response

 

[Blowfish]

I don't mind saying it...

The hit was stupid but fighting is as stupid if not worse. Player safety first. Goons have been removed from the game.

Everytime I see Savard in the news or recall Bergeron after his massive concussion, I question why some folk here can stomach seeing something like that again. Dumb.

 

[DKH]

I don't mind saying it...

The hit was stupid but fighting is as stupid if not worse. Player safety first. Goons have been removed from the game.

Everytime I see Savard in the news or recall Bergeron after his massive concussion, I question why some folk here can stomach seeing something like that again. Dumb.

Nicely said but I do understand Colt thought process and this thread

Outrage over Gudas - the guy doesn't get it. He's either a moron or a moron.

The Rangers went after him on the Vesey hit earlier this week and this was way worse but Vesey had the puck whereas Czarnik got rid of it

Personally I'd like to see him suspended and the Bruins get him.

 

[Killerbeez]

I agree with the 10 game suspension DKH. No place in the game for hits like that. He headhunted and should end up losing pay as a result. I like fighting in the game, but with all of the concussion stuff and the enforcers that have severe ptsd after the game finishes, its time to move past it. The bigger concern should be goons headhunting promising young players who may never fully recover from concussion syndrome as a result.

 

[DKH]

I agree with the 10 game suspension DKH. No place in the game for hits like that. He headhunted and should end up losing pay as a result. I like fighting in the game, but with all of the concussion stuff and the enforcers that have severe ptsd after the game finishes, its time to move past it. The bigger concern should be goons headhunting promising young players who may never fully recover from concussion syndrome as a result.

It's not like you blow out a knee which is bad enough it's their brain their ability to live and effects many lives - to hit someone in the head on purpose with all the information available by Gudas makes me furious

Complete lack of respect for the player the game

This guy puts himself in this position every week - folks can break down was it or wasn't it but it's Gudas and Soneone's head. If it's going to be that close don't freaking do it

I have no idea what Czarnik is today - he could be fine but it was a hit in the head area patented Gudas targeting a vulnerable player

Everything starts with respect and if you can't change his mindset change his bank account

 

[Boston BROin]

There should have been an answer. Even if it's not a fight, something should have been done. A scrum, a big hit or a questionable hit if you're worried about guys fighting and getting concussed.

 

[Blowfish]

There should have been an answer. Even if it's not a fight, something should have been done. A scrum, a big hit or a questionable hit if you're worried about guys fighting and getting concussed.

Questioning it in outrage to the refs yes by players and coaches. A significant penalty with $ impact is needed for this idiot.

 

[LouJersey]

Same crap. These hits are never going to stop so I guess the Bruins can't be bothered. It's lame. It deserved a response and there were plenty of Bruins who could have done something but didn't. That's the way most of this generation rolls in real life so it might as well carry over to sports. *******.

 

[LouJersey]

Questioning it in outrage to the refs yes by players and coaches. A significant penalty with $ impact is needed for this idiot.

That goes without saying. The Bruins players also should have been furious. Amazing they can see a teammate hit like that and be so robotic and in control.

People say fighting or tough guys curb nothing and that's true, bit neither do fines and suspensions.

 

[Blowfish]

That goes without saying. The Bruins players also should have been furious. Amazing they can see a teammate hit like that and be so robotic and in control.

People say fighting or tough guys curb nothing and that's true, bit neither do fines and suspensions.

The problem with this is you have morons (Cookes, Gudaseses, Rinaldos, et..) playing the game...Can't teach morons.

 

[LouJersey]

There should have been an answer. Even if it's not a fight, something should have been done. A scrum, a big hit or a questionable hit if you're worried about guys fighting and getting concussed.

Agreed. You can't prevent this stuff but younsure as hell should react to it. You would think one out of seventeen skaters would have felt the need/want/responsibility to at least appear to be a good teammate.