Who's our coach next season?

[KingsFan7824]

Yes, but the Sekera trade was already spilled milk. I agree with KP. When the Sekera deal was made there should have been a plan in place to keep him. At the time, and I still do now, advocate moving Martinez for a cost-controlled, young forward.

I don't remember exactly, but did Voynov still count against the cap in June/July that year? I know he eventually didn't during the season, but LTIR guys do count in the summer, and I believe that's "officially" where Voynov was put after being suspended. If he did count, and you want to sign Sekera, other GM's know that. What cost controlled young forward are you getting for Martinez with your back against the wall?

Buying Richards out in June 2014, that's easy, that's on Lombardi that he didn't do it. He controlled that situation. Making a trade takes at least 2 teams, so if a trade isn't made at some particular time, there can be a whole bunch of reasons for it. There may not have been a team at the time that wanted Martinez at $4m for a cost controlled young forward.

The Lucic deal was a big mistake.

Alright, but they had no 1st round pick in 2016. If they miss the playoffs, it's a lottery pick, and Carolina could've potentially gotten Matthews or Laine with it.

Missing the playoffs after the Sekera deal is what put the Kings in a tough spot. Make the playoffs that year, after the Sekera deal, and the 2015 pick goes to Carolina, and you can pull the reins back for the 15-16 season without a worry. Unfortunately the team went 8-0 before the Sekera deal was made, and Lombardi took a chance because of those wins.

 

[HeadInjury]

The Sekera deal was completely justified at the time. We were the defending champions and Voynov's absence created a big hole. Had Sekera not been injured we probably would have gotten in the playoffs.

On the other hand, the Lucic deal was a terrible mistake.

 

[Jisatsu]

Interesting rant. Is there any understanding of delegation. But here goes.



As is true in my line of work, and many other lines of work. You have to negotiate with buyers/sellers, personnel etc. Sometimes people are terminated, sometimes good employees quit or threaten to quit over salary. As far as trading away popular players, no GM should be making decisions based on what fans think, and I still don't buy AEG is interfering behind the scenes.



Almost exclusively done from amateuer scouting, ultimately the GM has the final say but most GM's don't have the time during the season to actively scout a mid-round player.



This is not rocket science, your AHL team is mostly filled with your 20-25 year old prospects, with perhaps a younger European player mixed in and the rest is signing career minor league guys who many times shift from team to team. NHL teams also assign a member of management such as the Asst. GM to oversee the AHL team.



I have to be sharp with them ALL??

Isn't this a post defending Dean Lombardi?

Was he sharp with Purcell, Gilbert, Setoguchi, Latta and Trotman?

None of us would have to hit all of them, although I would be willing to bet none of us would have gone 0 for 5.



RFA's have no leverage.

BTW, I never once said I would have traded Kopitar. I don't know why you keep hinting and implying that.




There wouldn't be a need for a rebuild. The way to maintain consistent success is to sign your star players and move on from your overpaid secondary players and replace them with young talent on ELC's. The best way to add young players with talent is through the draft, and the best way to do that is hitting on your 1st round picks, which you can't do when you are trading your 1st round picks for rentals.



And no one here would do that??!!

Every team in the league does that.



Or wait to long to call people up and have Purcell and Setoguchi on the roster.



Most GM's don't have to deal with that. And if this is in reference to Richards, well that problem along with other problems had been rumored long before he came to LA. In no way blaming Lombardi for that, but there was certainly some risk involved in bringing him here.



Well, my rule would be simple, it's the same one Jim Harbaugh has. You hit a women, you're done. I don't care if you're Drew Doughty or Andy Andreoff. Now I know there is a lot more involved with the PA and what not but there is no "teaching and educating" domestic abusers.

Just replying to the bolded part, but I don't think you know how the scouting process works in professional sports. The scouts will give you a list of players, true, but there's no guarantee that you'll be able to even nab any of those players on the list. As a GM you actually have to take what the scouts give you and prioritize those players, you then have to rank them, then hope to hell you can get your pick in the order you wanted to get your pick in, as long as no other teams nab those players on your list.

Picking draft picks may seem easy because all we do is watch the first 10 picks and those are pretty obvious picks, but after that it's a big crap shoot and extremely chaotic. Just because you are handed a list of players the scouts think would be a good fit for the team doesn't mean you will actually get to pick those players. What happens when you are in the 3rd round and none of those players on your list are even available to pick, do you pick someone you intended to get later on? Do you pick someone different? Trade your pick? To think that the draft is simply just "follow the scouts" shows extreme ignorance of the scouting/drafting process.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Wasn't the thing with Sekera that we offered the money but not the NMC?

 

[Johnny Utah]

This team is a mess. The Mayor was on some podcast or show last time and I couldn't agree more.

Kopitar makes way too much at 29 - that was a HORRIBLE deal. And sorry Kopitar but you are a selfish dude for maxing the Kings out knowing we would lose Lucic. Knowing my line-mate would be Lewis or King I would have taken 8-9 instead.

The deal for Gaborik? Unreal. The night before Gab re-signed Hoven and others predicted a 3 year deal, how the heck did it turn into a 7 YEAR DEAL! The dude is notorious for being on the most injury prone forwards in the past DECADE.

Dustin Brown. Can't really argue this one. He was the Captain and beast during both Cup runs but he faded fast. I will take that one.

Sekera deal - terrible. Kings were out of the playoff picture and they gave up heavy assets.

Lucic deal - terrible. Kings could have re-signed JW for nothing at 3.5 and not given up Jones, Miller and a 1st.

Lombardi is done and I don't see a new GM keeping Sutter around for more than 1 year the way he handles kids.

This organization went from a mess to one of the best in the NHL, back to a mess.

 

[theMajor]

would it be wise to fire Lombardi and hire a new GM before the expansion draft?

 

[kingsholygrail]

This team is a mess. The Mayor was on some podcast or show last time and I couldn't agree more.

Kopitar makes way too much at 29 - that was a HORRIBLE deal. And sorry Kopitar but you are a selfish dude for maxing the Kings out knowing we would lose Lucic. Knowing my line-mate would be Lewis or King I would have taken 8-9 instead.

The deal for Gaborik? Unreal. The night before Gab re-signed Hoven and others predicted a 3 year deal, how the heck did it turn into a 7 YEAR DEAL! The dude is notorious for being on the most injury prone forwards in the past DECADE.

Dustin Brown. Can't really argue this one. He was the Captain and beast during both Cup runs but he faded fast. I will take that one.

Sekera deal - terrible. Kings were out of the playoff picture and they gave up heavy assets.

Lucic deal - terrible. Kings could have re-signed JW for nothing at 3.5 and not given up Jones, Miller and a 1st.

Lombardi is done and I don't see a new GM keeping Sutter around for more than 1 year the way he handles kids.

This organization went from a mess to one of the best in the NHL, back to a mess.

So you would not have re-signed Kopitar.

 

[Johnny Utah]

Of course I re-sign him but I would have played hardball. He is not Kane or Toews. He is a step below and I would have explained to him that his line mates will be crap for the next 7 years if he takes 10 million.

Kane and Toews have more cups, are a year or so younger and neither has had less than a 20 goal season or as terrible as a season as Kopitar this year.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Wasn't the thing with Sekera that we offered the money but not the NMC?

He also said he didn't like how he was being used here and didn't like the fit. I'm guessing that meant him playing on the right side.

This team is a mess. The Mayor was on some podcast or show last time and I couldn't agree more.

Kopitar makes way too much at 29 - that was a HORRIBLE deal. And sorry Kopitar but you are a selfish dude for maxing the Kings out knowing we would lose Lucic. Knowing my line-mate would be Lewis or King I would have taken 8-9 instead.

The deal for Gaborik? Unreal. The night before Gab re-signed Hoven and others predicted a 3 year deal, how the heck did it turn into a 7 YEAR DEAL! The dude is notorious for being on the most injury prone forwards in the past DECADE.

Dustin Brown. Can't really argue this one. He was the Captain and beast during both Cup runs but he faded fast. I will take that one.

Sekera deal - terrible. Kings were out of the playoff picture and they gave up heavy assets.

Lucic deal - terrible. Kings could have re-signed JW for nothing at 3.5 and not given up Jones, Miller and a 1st.

Lombardi is done and I don't see a new GM keeping Sutter around for more than 1 year the way he handles kids.

This organization went from a mess to one of the best in the NHL, back to a mess.

Weren't the Kings in the playoff picture when they got Sekera? I know they had just come off an 8 game win streak.

And I never got the sense Williams wanted to stay. I just remember comments from him all season about doing what was best for him and his family and that he wouldn't be taking any discount to stay. And then with all the off-ice issues + problems with Sutter + him saying he wanted to be closer to his family on the east coast, I felt like he had one foot out the door the whole season.

 

[AlphaBravo]

I agree with the sentiment that the Sekera deal should have been done at the time. Is it a good deal in hindsight? No, but at the time the Kings had just won the cup, they were on an insane hot streak like prior years as the season was winding down, and the future of Voynov looked bleak and DL needed someone to replace him short-term and a possible long term signing deal if Voynov never returned to the Kings.

If I was DL, I would do that deal all day every day.

The Lucic one is tricky. There are plenty of negatives: the first round pick, one-year contract with uncertainty whether we can resign him considering Kopitar's contract coming up and Pearson/Toffoli deals the next year. But I think that deal is 50/50 also. Although we missed the playoffs in 2015, I can see from DL's perspective (and mine as well at the time) that that was just a fluke year and that this team still has it to go on a deep run.

We all know now that this team is broken, so its easy to judge these deals, but at the time they were understandable.

The biggest blunder is signing Gaborik to 7 years as everyone has mentioned. I don't see what possessed DL to do that deal. Its not like there would be other teams banging at the door to sign Gaborik to 7 years. If it was a 3 year deal, at even $6MM a season (which is still incredibly high), that is more understandable. But considering he is injury prone and on the wrong side of 30, I just don't get it.

 

[theMajor]

The biggest blunder is signing Gaborik to 7 years as everyone has mentioned. I don't see what possessed DL to do that deal. Its not like there would be other teams banging at the door to sign Gaborik to 7 years. If it was a 3 year deal, at even $6MM a season (which is still incredibly high), that is more understandable. But considering he is injury prone and on the wrong side of 30, I just don't get it.

loyalty honestly. Gabo was instrumental in the Kings 2014 playoff run and, from my memory, was right up there with Kopi/Doughty/Williams for the Conn Smythe. remember, he was only traded from the Blue Jackets a few months prior and impressed everyone on the team during the time he was here. Dean had a b0ner for him and gave him a loaded contract as a result of his play. kinda like what he did for Brown but Gabo had only been on the team a few months so the sample size was small. doesnt excuse the deal, just goes to show how eager Dean is to 'repay' or reward players that perform for him

 

[kingsholygrail]

Of course I re-sign him but I would have played hardball. He is not Kane or Toews. He is a step below and I would have explained to him that his line mates will be crap for the next 7 years if he takes 10 million.

Kane and Toews have more cups, are a year or so younger and neither has had less than a 20 goal season or as terrible as a season as Kopitar this year.

You wouldn't have gotten Kopitar's agent to agree to 8-9mil. It wouldn't matter how "hard" you play. You're letting the current season's results cloud your perspective. Kopitar was coming off one of his best seasons and had won the Selke. He's a two time champ. He has led the team in points almost every season he has played for the team.


And you're gonna low ball him.

 

[Herby]

You wouldn't have gotten Kopitar's agent to agree to 8-9mil. It wouldn't matter how "hard" you play. You're letting the current season's results cloud your perspective. Kopitar was coming off one of his best seasons and had won the Selke. He's a two time champ. He has led the team in points almost every season he has played for the team.


And you're gonna low ball him.

Exactly.

The people here who thought Kopitar was going to give a hometown discount (lead by one massive homer poster) were completely out to lunch.

Overpaying the face of the franchise by a million and a half a year is quite a bit different than bringing back Richards, signing Gaborik to 7 years, Greene to 4 years, trading 1st round picks for rentals.

 

[BigKing]

I have no issue with Kopitar taking market value while living in this highly-taxed state.

Still have no patience for us average folks giving a guy **** for taking market value and not signing for $2MM less a year. That's $16MM dollars over the course of the contract. Get out of town with that nonsense.

There is no guarantee that taking less money delivers more championships. What is guaranteed is the amount of that contract.

I'll give Kopitar **** for his play this season but I'm not going to give him **** for not taking a $16MM gamble.

It's on Lombardi to decide whether to go for it or trade him. He went for it. Deride or defend DL all you want for the decision but calling Kopitar selfish is a joke: the selfish ones in this exercise are the fans calling him selfish for getting what he has earned.

 

[ziggyfan]

Sutter should not be back next season. If he is this team will not go anywhere. It's time for a new coach, new voice and most importantly a new system.

 

[Bandit]

You wouldn't have gotten Kopitar's agent to agree to 8-9mil. It wouldn't matter how "hard" you play. You're letting the current season's results cloud your perspective. Kopitar was coming off one of his best seasons and had won the Selke. He's a two time champ. He has led the team in points almost every season he has played for the team.


And you're gonna low ball him.

This is gonna be the only one where he hasn't right? Maybe his rookie year?

Edit: yup. Every year since his rookie year, until this season...

 

[KingsFan7824]

In 20 years when Kopitar is just a Kings memory, he'll be enjoying that money more than wondering what could've been if he had just taken a couple million less in a cap hit. Like all players, he's in this for the money when he can get it. It's not like he was a RFA last year. Lombardi didn't have the luxury and leverage of time to use against Kopitar, and the team was in a position to win the division, so they weren't going to trade the guy either.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=1692759&highlight=gaborik+signs&page=10

Gaborik's big day. Outside of some concerns about 7 years, we were all pretty much on board.

 

[triplcrown]

The best candidate is
Chris Sutter.

He brings joy, and will make the game simple again.

 

[Scottkmlps]

Of course I re-sign him but I would have played hardball. He is not Kane or Toews. He is a step below and I would have explained to him that his line mates will be crap for the next 7 years if he takes 10 million.

Kane and Toews have more cups, are a year or so younger and neither has had less than a 20 goal season or as terrible as a season as Kopitar this year.

Played hardball with a UFA to be? Yup, there goes your #1 center walking right out the door come July 1st. Good job. You just lost one of your franchises cornerstones for absolutely nothing.

 

[lumbergh]

The Sekera deal was completely justified at the time. We were the defending champions and Voynov's absence created a big hole. Had Sekera not been injured we probably would have gotten in the playoffs.

On the other hand, the Lucic deal was a terrible mistake.

I'm gonna go on the record and say that the Sekera deal looks dumb now, and was not smart even when it was made. Not a good fit on the team. Had next to no impact on the team. For the price of a first round pick, bad now, bad then.

On the other hand, I liked the Lucic deal a lot. Judging by the demeanor of the team this season, the Kings missed Lucic's presence pretty much every night. Sure the price was steep, but Looch had a real positive influence on the team top to bottom. The big problem was that Jones was flipped right to a division rival that ultimately eliminated the Kings. That and the inability to resign him at the end of the season. His departure left a gaping hole that Lombardi has not been able to fill.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Can anybody clarify Lombardi's contract status? I've read it's up after this season and now I've read lately he has one year left.

 

[Fishhead]

Played hardball with a UFA to be? Yup, there goes your #1 center walking right out the door come July 1st. Good job. You just lost one of your franchises cornerstones for absolutely nothing.

Then we can boo him like Blake

 

[KINGS17]

Played hardball with a UFA to be? Yup, there goes your #1 center walking right out the door come July 1st. Good job. You just lost one of your franchises cornerstones for absolutely nothing.

This is why GMs need to practice discipline, but it rarely happens. Sadly, the right move was to trade Kopitar in the summer of 2015. Let some other GM sign him to the stupid retirement contract.

Lombardi knows Kopitar's contract is awful.

Franchise cornerstone for what? Finishing 7-12 in the Western Conference over the duration of his contract?

Looking forward to the next CBA. I think the owner's will enforce some discipline on their GMs by at a minimum cutting the max length of contracts.

 

[WHOneedsSOX]

Anyone know why Joe Thornton routinely took 3 year deals starting 12 years ago? Seems like he could've easily gotten one of those ridiculous deals of something like 12 years, $7 million a season. Why did he take 3 year deals when he was in his prime and averaging a point per game?

 

[BigKing]

Anyone know why Joe Thornton routinely took 3 year deals starting 12 years ago? Seems like he could've easily gotten one of those ridiculous deals of something like 12 years, $7 million a season. Why did he take 3 year deals when he was in his prime and averaging a point per game?

If you produce, you can get more on the next contract when the cap is rising.

He also has never wanted to leave San Jose, from what I recall. Full NTC, no?