Who's Better New Jersey Or Buffalo ?

[Gorskyontario]

No but apparently some people are still pretending Owen Power isn't a great player for some reason?

Every time I have seen him play he has been trash. Daigle tier #1 overall so far.

It's early for him so maybe he will improve, or maybe he needs to leave the Sabres to improve. He is big, soft and useless defensively.

 

[njdevils1982]

Playing for an actual NHL quality coach and staff for the first time in their careers?

full circle man

 

[Aladyyn]

Power played like crap and Dahlin is being overrated here.
Although a lot of their problems are due to poor coaching.

Power was allergic to playing defense last year. No chance he gets away with the same play under Ruff. He'll get his ass benched. The problem will sort itself out.

Dahlin is harder to solve. Adams seems to love playing him in the wrong position. He'll never be good defensively on the right side and he'll constantly get victimized by speedy forecheckers. Not much options to fix this with Jokiharju being their best RHD.

Absolutely crazy how many wrong statements you managed to fit into such a short post

 

[Goptor]

Absolutely crazy how many wrong statements you managed to fit into such a short post

So Power was good defensively and Dahlin plays on the left side?

Or was I wrong about Granato being a bad coach?

 

[sabremike]

full circle man

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

The Sabres have talent but this isnt much of a discussion - New Jersey is vastly better right now

 

[Ducks4Cup]

Try this: who would win a 7 game series between the two, and what would the result (I.e 4 -3/ sweep etc)? (Assume everyone healthy)

 

[Jerzey Devil]

I think certain coaches and certain GM’s have specialties or strengths and they’re brought in for specific reasons.

Lou is a win now GM. You don’t hire him if you’re rebuilding.

Lindy Ruff’s specialty is getting his team to unify and believe in themselves. Great for the younger players which Buffalo has plenty of.

I don’t think Lindy will bring anyone very deep in a playoff run but he will get a team to the next level which is what Buffalo needs. Get them playing some quality hockey and then bring in a championship caliber coach in a couple of years.

At least that’s how I hope it plays out with the Devils. I’m obviously very hopeful about Keefe haha. But the pattern seems to be there with both Dallas and hopefully NJ regarding what Lindy can do for a franchise. Still think it’s a great hire for Buffalo to get them to the next level.

 

[norrisnick]

Don't have a dog in this fight, and don't understand the comparison. One of these team's core when getting average goaltending has a 110 points and won a playoff series. The other has found a way to consistently underperform. Either team could make the playoffs next year and not surprise me, and I expect both teams to improve.

This is one of those times that comparing the top5 players on each team is not fully representative of the comparison.

Another way to phrase this is apart from one oddball season NJ as been just as inept for just as long as Buffalo.

 

[CowbellConray]

IMO - it starts with ownership. Pegula's a hack. As a Hawks fan who lived with $Bill for a long time - you recognize that stench from the top anywhere. AZ had it with Merulo, NYI had it with Wang, TB had it with just about everyone pre-Vinik. Almost impossible to overcome that.

EDIT: And for the original question - the core of the NJ team when they got adequate goaltending was a 110 point team and won a play-off round. That gives them this comparison AINEC until the Sabres prove that they can pull it together for an 82 game season.

They were 110 point team with the now Sabres coach. Who I think is a very good coach in this league.

 

[CowbellConray]

Guess we’ll see, bud. Hughes unquestionably has higher potential and he’ll be much better insulated than Power will be in Buffalo.

Also just noticing you think the Sabres will have a “big advantage” in goaltending next season. Jokes.

Think I can safely back away from your general assessments at this point.

I mean, power being a 6’6 lengthy defenseman with great skating (not Hughes level) doesn’t really put a ceiling on what he can become. I’ve said his top end is Hedman, but he will sit behind Dahlin in ES and PP usage.

In his rookie year, when given top PP time, he was spectacular in that stretch

 

[CowbellConray]

The gap between Hughes and Nico and Cozens and Thompson is going VASTLY understated here.

Jack>>>Nico>=Tage>>>Cozens

Nico is never hitting close to a 47 goal 94 point campaign in his career. Tage has a higher upside, both players need to stay healthy. But putting Nico above Tage is crazy in my opinion

 

[sabresEH]

Try this: who would win a 7 game series between the two, and what would the result (I.e 4 -3/ sweep etc)? (Assume everyone healthy)

Devils in 5/6. We’d win a home game and maybe UPL steals us another. But NJ would beat us with some ease imo.

 

[dgibb10]

Nico is never hitting close to a 47 goal 94 point campaign in his career. Tage has a higher upside, both players need to stay healthy. But putting Nico above Tage is crazy in my opinion

And tage thompson will never get anywhere close to a selke in his career.

Over the last 2 years:
0.967 ppg, 0.381 gpg
vs
1.007 ppg, 0.510 gpg

On ice results (even strength), Nico drives play and possession in a way tage simply does not. (he also has more even strength points).

Tage is a better power play weapon I will give him that.

Of course Nico contributes on the PK, where I don't think he's an elite PK guy, but is good enough to provide some value.

If you prefer the goal scoring and PP value of Tage, understandable.
I prefer the play driving, defense, and PK value of Nico.

And btw, Nico Hischier is 16 months YOUNGER than tage.

 

[CowbellConray]

And tage thompson will never get anywhere close to a selke in his career.

Over the last 2 years:
0.967 ppg, 0.381 gpg
vs
1.007 ppg, 0.510 gpg

On ice results (even strength), Nico drives play and possession in a way tage simply does not. (he also has more even strength points).
View attachment 896066

Tage is a better power play weapon I will give him that.

Of course Nico contributes on the PK, where I don't think he's an elite PK guy, but is good enough to provide some value.

If you prefer the goal scoring and PP value of Tage, understandable.
I prefer the play driving, defense, and PK value of Nico.

And btw, Nico Hischier is 16 months YOUNGER than tage.

Tage is a solid PK player, and while you are correct Nico plays a 200 foot game that is desirable, Tage has play transition and offensive acumen that Nico simply doesn’t. If you want to call them equal in value, completely understand. Nico is strong defensible and good offensively, Tage is great offensively and ok defensively. I also think there is a level of coaching in that, and Tage’s scoring was down this year due to wrist injuries that hampered his play. When he was healthy in the final quarter of the season, he was back to over PPG.

Nico being 16 months younger doesn’t matter anymore. They are 25 and 26. This isn’t 19 and 21 year olds we are taking about. 99% of NHL players have hit their offensive ceilings by 25.

 

[dgibb10]

Tage is a solid PK player, and while you are correct Nico plays a 200 foot game that is desirable, Tage has play transition and offensive acumen that Nico simply doesn’t. If you want to call them equal in value, completely understand. Nico is strong defensible and good offensively, Tage is great offensively and ok defensively. I also think there is a level of coaching in that, and Tage’s scoring was down this year due to wrist injuries that hampered his play. When he was healthy in the final quarter of the season, he was back to over PPG.

Nico being 16 months younger doesn’t matter anymore. They are 25 and 26. This isn’t 19 and 21 year olds we are taking about. 99% of NHL players have hit their offensive ceilings by 25.

Nico's offensive impact is vastly understated (tbh his defensive impact is overrated).

Probably because he isn't a major weapon on our PP.

He ranks 28th in even strength points over the last 2 years (ahead of tage thompson), and 17th in P/60.

In terms of on ice generation, the only lines that generate more expected goals than nico hischier are:

The McDavid line (RNH+Hyman)
the draisaitl line (Foegele)
the crosby line (Guentzel+Rust)
and the Matthew Tkachuk line (Bennett+Verhaeghe)

Nico Hischier generates more offense when he's on the ice than Tage does, both in expected and actual goal results.

PP i'm taking Tage
5v5 I'm taking Nico
PK i'm taking Nico (-3.88 goal differential/60, -7.03 xgoal differential/60 vs tage -6.43 and -8.83 in a smaller role/sample).

Again, if you prefer Tage's PP impact and individual goal scoring, I completely understand.

Another way to phrase this is apart from one oddball season NJ as been just as inept for just as long as Buffalo.

NJD has made 3 playoff appearances and a stanley cup final since buffalo last made the playoffs

They were 110 point team with the now Sabres coach. Who I think is a very good coach in this league.

With Andrew Brunette*

 

[sabremike]

Nico's offensive impact is vastly understated (tbh his defensive impact is overrated).

Probably because he isn't a major weapon on our PP.

He ranks 28th in even strength points over the last 2 years (ahead of tage thompson), and 17th in P/60.

In terms of on ice generation, the only lines that generate more expected goals than nico hischier are:

The McDavid line (RNH+Hyman)
the draisaitl line (Foegele)
the crosby line (Guentzel+Rust)
and the Matthew Tkachuk line (Bennett+Verhaeghe)

Nico Hischier generates more offense when he's on the ice than Tage does, both in expected and actual goal results.

PP i'm taking Tage
5v5 I'm taking Nico
PK i'm taking Nico (-3.88 goal differential/60, -7.03 xgoal differential/60 vs tage -6.43 and -8.83 in a smaller role/sample).

Again, if you prefer Tage's PP impact and individual goal scoring, I completely understand.


NJD has made 3 playoff appearances and a stanley cup final since buffalo last made the playoffs


With Andrew Brunette*

Yes because Lindy has NEVER had any coaching success except when Brunette was one of his assistants...

 

[dgibb10]

Yes because Lindy has NEVER had any coaching success except when Brunette was one of his assistants...

2/9 in making the playoffs without brunette over his last decade of coaching

Brunette however, has reached 100 points (99 with nash but I'll round) in each of the last 3 years, with 3 different teams.

 

[sabremike]

2/9 in making the playoffs without brunette over his last decade of coaching

Brunette however, has reached 100 points (99 with nash but I'll round) in each of the last 3 years, with 3 different teams.

Clearly it was the loss of Brunette that sunk the Devils last season and not all their top players getting injured and horrific goaltending.

 

[dgibb10]

Clearly it was the loss of Brunette that sunk the Devils last season and not all their top players getting injured and horrific goaltending.

Those can be issues and the coaching can still suck

 

[CowbellConray]

2/9 in making the playoffs without brunette over his last decade of coaching

Brunette however, has reached 100 points (99 with nash but I'll round) in each of the last 3 years, with 3 different teams.

I mean, what I said about Ruff being the coach during the 110 point campaign and him now being the coach of the Sabres is accurate. If you think Brunette was the reason they had success (I believe his main role was PP as the assistant) that’s fine. But the Sabres now do have the head coach that was behind the bench in 22-23

 

[tmg]

Like everybody(?) has said, it's New Jersey. It's not even really close.

The question should be asked then... if you want a good comparable team to compare to Buffalo, who would it be, because it isn't the Devils.

I like this question and was sad there wasn’t much follow up to it.

In the current sense I can’t think of one.

Historically I see a lot of parallels to late 90s into early 00s Ottawa. Drafted two defensemen first overall not far apart (Berard-became-Redden, and Phillips; Dahlin and Power). Traded their once-cornerstone disgruntled second overall pick 1c for multiple parts. (Yashin, Eichel) .

 

[CanadienShark]

Devils for me. More rounded team and similar overall talent level. Superior depth at all positions.

 

[Crazy Cizikas]

New Jersey is a very good team. Not sure what happened last season. But they are very good. Could use a better goalie, I guess. Buffalo isn’t all that good. Maybe they’ll improve next season. But we’ll have to see how that goes.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Sabres downgraded their roster if anything this offseason. Unless several players rebound I doubt it will be any better.