AWall THE CLAW
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- Jul 23, 2010
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Who was the worst captain in NYR history?
- Thread starter Cassano
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Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
By that same logic so was Gretzky. A guy who put up 200 points more than once in his career only having around 65 points in his final year as a 39 year old? Disgraceful.
Messier was 44 years old. What more do you want from a 44 year old?
I'd have to say Drury even though I really liked him. He took a lot of heat from the fanbase and held the captaincy between Jagr and Callahan so he's kinda lost in there.
There's also the whole knee breakdown so it really hindered his playing ability.
Edit: I should clarify. I chose him based on what I've seen. Can't speak for the older guys.
There's also the whole knee breakdown so it really hindered his playing ability.
Edit: I should clarify. I chose him based on what I've seen. Can't speak for the older guys.
That was a great jersey, though!
Gretz makes that look good - what with the white skates and all - up to his nipples. Then u have the turtle neck and the jofa.
Ex Officer Friendly
Got Nothin To Say
By that same logic so was Gretzky. A guy who put up 200 points more than once in his career only having around 65 points in his final year as a 39 year old? Disgraceful.
Messier was 44 years old. What more do you want from a 44 year old?
they asked who i thought was the worst captain and I mentioned that I did not quite like Messiers second term as captain putting up points at 44 is good and all but coming back after leaving to go to another team, and basically becoming hated by that fan base.
And Messier was one of my all time favorites
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,766
- 27,709
In my lifetime, Messier's second stint edges out Leetch for worst captaincy.
Drury doesn't belong in the conversation. By all accounts, the locker room revered him. Just because fans were disappointed with his cap-hit-to-production ratio, it doesn't mean he was a bad leader.
Drury doesn't belong in the conversation. By all accounts, the locker room revered him. Just because fans were disappointed with his cap-hit-to-production ratio, it doesn't mean he was a bad leader.
Ex Officer Friendly
Got Nothin To Say
My favorite Chris Drury Moment
http://scores.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=310409013
comes back scores a goal in his first shift
I may be in the minority here, in fact I'm sure of it, while Drury's contract was far to high, I actually thought his player here was completely acceptable, outside of that last, 4th line season.
His other years here were pretty good. He did a lot of good things for us and by all means was considered one of the better leaders in the NHL. Also, he literally would do anything for the team. There never seemed to be any ego involved with him.
Quite honestly, he was, at the beginning of that contract, what Callahan was at his peak as a Ranger.
eco's bones
Registered User
Of the ones I've seen:
Hadfield (71-74) LW--first 50 goal scorer in Rangers history. Started out as muscle and developed into a good player. The better he got the less muscle he provided. Still he kept Ratelle and Gilbert from taking a lot more abuse than they did.
Park (74-75) D--IMO the second best Rangers D that I ever saw. Great player.
Esposito (75-78) C--never quite put up the numbers he did for the Bruins teams. Still a legit 1st line center. As a Ranger he was a leader on and off the ice--an adult in the locker room. Not as much of an adult as a GM, coach or commentator--sorry to say.
Dave Maloney (78-80) D--he was like 21 years old when the Rangers gave him the captaincy. He wasn't ready for it. Larry Sloman's Thin Ice: A season in hell with the New York Rangers details his teammates general dislike for him and Carol Vadnais. He gave it up and it seemed to get him back in the good graces of at least some of them.
Tkachuk (80-81) C--this was Walter's final NHL season and as an offensive player he'd been on the decline for a while. I seem to remember him losing sight in an eye and that finished him.
Beck (81-86) D--I liked Barry. He marched to his own drummer. He was all business when he played but when the game was over he found other things to keep himself occupied. Well--Duguay did too but Barry wasn't nearly the hotshot. Barry was fearless and a really tough guy who would defend his teammates. His main problem was staying healthy. He retired young after the 85-86 season. He'd had enough of his coach--Ted Sator. The Rangers best forward Mark Pavelich had walked off the team midway through the season and Reijo Ruotsolainen who was a real offensive talent on the blueline said '**** it' as well and went back to Europe. Sator was just ****ing horrible. Sending Pierre Larouche to the minors. That guy was just out of his mind.
Greschner (86-87) D--who in Ranger land doesn't like Ron Greschner? I've yet to meet a Ranger fan who didn't like Gresch.
Kisio (87-91) C--Kisio was a good player. Always gave a good effort. Reminds a lot of Callahan. He'd get first or second line ice time and really he was a very good 2nd line or a great 3rd line player.
Messier part 1 (91-97) C-the best Rangers captain ever.
Leetch (97-00) D-Greatest Rangers D of all time. My favorite Ranger of all time. Just a great player. An unassuming personality though. Better with an A than a C but he wasn't a terrible captain IMO.
Messier part 2 (97-00) C--complete reversal of Messier part 1. Seemed to be overseeing a country club of players on retirement contracts. He should have retire long before he did. His body wasn't holding up and he was no longer the physical force he used to be.
Jagr (06-08) RW--I had real doubts about Jagr when we got him from the Caps. I was absolutely wrong. Great player. Fun loving attitude but a real force on the ice. Breath of fresh air. He brought the Rangers to respectability.
Drury (08-11) C--one of the most overrated and overpaid players in Rangers history. Blah personality.
Callahan (11-14) RW--epitomized hard work effort. Again like Kisio--he was playing above his job description. Liked him though. He never dogged it but like Leetch he might have been better with the A than the C.
Hadfield (71-74) LW--first 50 goal scorer in Rangers history. Started out as muscle and developed into a good player. The better he got the less muscle he provided. Still he kept Ratelle and Gilbert from taking a lot more abuse than they did.
Park (74-75) D--IMO the second best Rangers D that I ever saw. Great player.
Esposito (75-78) C--never quite put up the numbers he did for the Bruins teams. Still a legit 1st line center. As a Ranger he was a leader on and off the ice--an adult in the locker room. Not as much of an adult as a GM, coach or commentator--sorry to say.
Dave Maloney (78-80) D--he was like 21 years old when the Rangers gave him the captaincy. He wasn't ready for it. Larry Sloman's Thin Ice: A season in hell with the New York Rangers details his teammates general dislike for him and Carol Vadnais. He gave it up and it seemed to get him back in the good graces of at least some of them.
Tkachuk (80-81) C--this was Walter's final NHL season and as an offensive player he'd been on the decline for a while. I seem to remember him losing sight in an eye and that finished him.
Beck (81-86) D--I liked Barry. He marched to his own drummer. He was all business when he played but when the game was over he found other things to keep himself occupied. Well--Duguay did too but Barry wasn't nearly the hotshot. Barry was fearless and a really tough guy who would defend his teammates. His main problem was staying healthy. He retired young after the 85-86 season. He'd had enough of his coach--Ted Sator. The Rangers best forward Mark Pavelich had walked off the team midway through the season and Reijo Ruotsolainen who was a real offensive talent on the blueline said '**** it' as well and went back to Europe. Sator was just ****ing horrible. Sending Pierre Larouche to the minors. That guy was just out of his mind.
Greschner (86-87) D--who in Ranger land doesn't like Ron Greschner? I've yet to meet a Ranger fan who didn't like Gresch.
Kisio (87-91) C--Kisio was a good player. Always gave a good effort. Reminds a lot of Callahan. He'd get first or second line ice time and really he was a very good 2nd line or a great 3rd line player.
Messier part 1 (91-97) C-the best Rangers captain ever.
Leetch (97-00) D-Greatest Rangers D of all time. My favorite Ranger of all time. Just a great player. An unassuming personality though. Better with an A than a C but he wasn't a terrible captain IMO.
Messier part 2 (97-00) C--complete reversal of Messier part 1. Seemed to be overseeing a country club of players on retirement contracts. He should have retire long before he did. His body wasn't holding up and he was no longer the physical force he used to be.
Jagr (06-08) RW--I had real doubts about Jagr when we got him from the Caps. I was absolutely wrong. Great player. Fun loving attitude but a real force on the ice. Breath of fresh air. He brought the Rangers to respectability.
Drury (08-11) C--one of the most overrated and overpaid players in Rangers history. Blah personality.
Callahan (11-14) RW--epitomized hard work effort. Again like Kisio--he was playing above his job description. Liked him though. He never dogged it but like Leetch he might have been better with the A than the C.
17futurecap
Registered User
I love the post above, but how in gods name was Drury overrated in Rangers history?
Also, never knew that about Larouche. Crazy. I love Pavelich as well, from everything I've seen of him on tape.
Also, never knew that about Larouche. Crazy. I love Pavelich as well, from everything I've seen of him on tape.
eco's bones
Registered User
Many thanks.
Some people I know liked Drury. I'm not one of them.
Ted Sator had been an assistant coach. The Rangers job was his first NHL head coaching job and I'm thinking his last. If I'm remembering right he more or less replaced Herb Brooks. He wanted to let everyone know who was boss and he went after a lot of vets. He had his own guys. Larouche got sent to the AHL and not even to the Rangers AHL team. They found another team for him. It was basically equivalent to sending him to Siberia. He wasn't expected back. But towards the end of that year he did come back because the team desperately needed him and he came back with a vengeance--scoring something like 20 goals in 25 or so games. Pavelich's role on the team was increasingly marginalized as the season went along. The first half of the season he was going at his usual point per game pace but gradually his role and his ice time diminished. A feud began and eventually Pavelich just walked away from his NHL career. Ruostolainen was Pavelich's closest friend on the team. He went back to Europe. For a few seasons afterwards when his European team's season came to the end he'd show up at the tail end of they year for the Oilers and his name is on a couple Stanley Cups. Beck also feuded with Sator. There's a bit of detail about Beck's life growing up in Sloman's book. He'd come to hockey late and he'd been in all kinds of trouble with the law as a kid. Some **** like he was in a gang that did a lot of B & E's and robberies if I'm remembering right. When he started playing he got good real fast and he was a monster d-man for his time. Huge, strong and mean with very good hockey skills. More of a natural leader--but not one that looked for rewards for it. Anyway I remember Sloman asks him how he fell in with all these bad people and Beck says to Sloman that he was the bad people.
For those saying the 2nd Messier stint, do you think that washes away his 1st?! I understand your point, but the thread asks who the worst captain was, so by only throwing that out, are you saying Mess?
Btw, I thought it was amusing that at the player forum someone was asked how many captains the Rangers have had and guessed one too many (bc I assume he was counting on a list from his smartphone that had Mess twice).
Btw, I thought it was amusing that at the player forum someone was asked how many captains the Rangers have had and guessed one too many (bc I assume he was counting on a list from his smartphone that had Mess twice).
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
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I'm definitely not saying Messier's 2nd stint washes out his 1st. But I'm nominating Messier's 2nd stint as the period that had the worst captainship in memory.
Gardner McKay
RIP, Jimmy.
Crease, what is it about Messier 2nd stint that makes it stand out for you as the worst captainship?
eco's bones
Registered User
My top 3 would be:
1. Messier part 1
2. Jagr
3. Beck--even though it ended in a disaster. That one was more on management's head. Speaking of which there used to be a NY sportswriter--Jerry Eisenberg?--who one time (late 70's-early 80's) interviewed the Garden CEO at the time and asked him the question--Would he at the end of any given season rather have a Stanley Cup winner or make a profit?--the guy chose the money. He was honest anyway.
Worst 3 captains:
1. Drury--maybe it's not fair but I really, really never liked this guy.
2. Messier part 2
3. Dave Maloney--as I said bad idea to give the C to a 21 year old who still had a lot of the punk (not the good kind of punk) in him. He was a good player but hardly elite.
1. Messier part 1
2. Jagr
3. Beck--even though it ended in a disaster. That one was more on management's head. Speaking of which there used to be a NY sportswriter--Jerry Eisenberg?--who one time (late 70's-early 80's) interviewed the Garden CEO at the time and asked him the question--Would he at the end of any given season rather have a Stanley Cup winner or make a profit?--the guy chose the money. He was honest anyway.
Worst 3 captains:
1. Drury--maybe it's not fair but I really, really never liked this guy.
2. Messier part 2
3. Dave Maloney--as I said bad idea to give the C to a 21 year old who still had a lot of the punk (not the good kind of punk) in him. He was a good player but hardly elite.
Its strange, I almost view it as 2 different people during his 2 stints here.
Part of it, I guess, was because of just how different the situations were each time.
...
Bill Cook captained the team to two Stanley Cup victories, and three other Finals appearances.
But he's your second least favorite captain in Rangers history? The one who was arguably the best in Rangers history?
And he's still in the top 10 in goals as a Ranger...his last game as a Ranger was in 1937...
howztheglass
Registered User
- Jan 27, 2009
- 2,454
- 645
Nice rundown--like a trip down memory lane,
You are 100% correct on Barry Beck--to this day I still tell my son about how good he was.
Beck was traded for 5 players--one of the biggest trades at the time--Big tough guy--great shot(missed the net most of the time)--very good skater--just a beast.
If I'm correct not only the falling out with Sater but I thought he had shoulder problems in the end.
If I had to think of 1 player in today's NHL to compare Barry Beck to it would be Dion Phaneuf but meaner.
Just to change the subject for a minute--you are also correct that Walter Tkachuk career did end when he got hit in the eye--again another very good player that many Ranger fans most likely never saw.
Anyway I have to agree with almost everyone that the Captain part#2 was not a very good return for Mark.
Crease
Chief Justice of the HFNYR Court
- Jul 12, 2004
- 24,766
- 27,709
Yeah, Bill Cook is a weird pick. I've never come across anything about him that suggests he was anything but a class act and a hockey legend.
"Dion Phaneuf but meaner." Sounds like it would have been very fun to see Beck play in his prime.
eco's bones
Registered User
Bill Cook fought in WWI in the Canadian branch of the British Army-- and in some of the major battles--including the Battle of the Somme and at Ypres. First day of the battle of the Somme is considered by at least some military historians to be the worst day ever in British military history. They had somewhere around 60,000 casualties just on their side. I imagine Cook saw a lot and experienced a lot in his lifetime and hockey might not have been at the absolute top of the list. Even so he was a big time goal scorer in his era and a legit Hall of Famer.
A case can be made that Messier was the best Captain anywhere.
Agreed on Leetch. All time Ranger, but a terrible Captain. Graves would have been a better choice.
So easy to forget just how good a healthy Beck was. An absolute monster of a player. Fearless. I remember him and Langway slugging it out an center ice in a fight of captains.
He should have had closer to 25 goals. He got robbed a bunch of times because of the huge jerseys goalies were wearing at the time.
As far as the question of worse captain goes; there really isn't a right or wrong answer. Each player selected to be the captain had unique qualities that made them stand out among their teammates.
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