Who was the second best rookie this year?

[CanadienShark]

His season ranks 94th all time in scoring among rookie forwards. There is zero rational argument for Celebrini over Hutson lol.

You should re-read my post.

 

[Garbageyuk]

You should re-read my post.

Lol, my apologies.

 

[Ghetty Green]

Hutson ran away with the calder like Marshawn Lynch but who was the second best rookie?

He did ?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

He did ?

He did.

Cellebrini is number two. Great year.

 

[MoneyManny]

Celebrini, and it's not even close. You could argue he's been the best rookie. He finished just 1 point behind Hutson depsite missing a month (10 games less).

In the end it's meaningless. It's just a rookie award. Celebrini will be the far better player in the long run.

Let's forget what position Hutson is playing again.

Y'all don't realize that your way of measuring Hutson on par with forwards for point production is really flattering to him and easily cements his status as top player.

There's absolutely nothing substantial OR MEASURABLE indicating that Celebrini or Michkov will be better than Hutson, offensively or defensively. There's plenty of advanced stat comparisons in the Calder thread.

 

[MoneyManny]

I have to be honest, the poll is super annoying. I’m ok with Hutson winning the Calder, but this poll would suggest he’s so far above the rest, let’s set him aside and vote on who is 2nd best. Dude is not in his own tier here.

He is though.

A defenseman winning the points race easily sets him in his own tier. It's not even debatable.

We'll see who ends up better in the long run (i still think Hutson), but this season is over and the gap between 1st and 2nd place was pretty large.

 

[ijuka]

Hutson was easily the best rookie.

As for second-best, Wolf probably impacted his team positively the most out of them.

 

[ijuka]

Wolf was arguably a top 10 goalie in the league this season. Not sure you can say the same about Celebrini or Michkov even being top 20 forwards this season

Even if that's true, that's a ridiculous argument. You realize how many more forwards there are than goalies?

 

[Toby91ca]

Enough. There is no age criteria for the Calder Trophy that applies here. I already accommodated your BS argument enough by excluding older rookies in my earlier post as a show of arguing in good faith, and in favour of Celebrini. He still comes out behind, by a huge margin.

The age argument works against Celebrini here anyway; defensemen take longer to develop than forwards. You said it yourself. Therefore, what Hutson did is even more exceptional

Firstly, I'm not sure why you are so bent out of shape. I agree Hutson was the best rookie this year, not sure how many times I need to say. You just seem so frustrated that people can't love Hutson enough and we need to make the gap between him and everyone else as big as possible. If someone disagrees enough times you'll simply suggest "enough" - obviously an idiot if I share a different opinion.

Secondly, yes, there is an age criteria for the Calder, that's not debatable, it's fact. That said, the subjective side....if you have two guys, one age 18 and one age 21 (both meet the age criteria).....all else being equal, I'm going with the 18 year old and most voters would as well. In this case, all else isn't equal though.

You’re being completely irrational now. Yes it absolutely does, if you’re using common sense and comparing D to D and forwards to forwards. Why on earth would you just compare points between D and forwards straight across, at face value? I guess Bobby Orr’s 139 point season really isn’t all that special because tons of players have scored more than that. It was only 3 points more than a guy like Dennis Maruk after all. Not to mention, Maruk scored 60 goals that year, far more than Bobby Orr ever scored in a season. Thats your logic

I'm going to suggest something that shouldn't be controversial, but perhaps you'll take it as such. The reality is, and I'll admit, this is subjective, the best rookie seasons of all time, have generally been forwards...so, let's assume you take the top 15 rookie seasons of all time...perhaps the first 14 are forwards. If you have D rookie come along and have the best rookie season of all time, you will suggest that is better than a F that comes along and has the 10th best F rookie season of all time....without considering any other factors.....that alone is enough to seal the deal for you? Let me ask you this question: Do you consider Hutson's rookie year better than Crosby's?

With respect to looking at Bobby Orr and his best production vs. forwards, etc. I've never gone down that road. Celebrini produced more offensively this year relatively speaking than Hutson, I don't look at that and suggest Celebrini had the better year.....in fact, as you've seen, I suggest the opposite, Hutson had the better year. The single/solitary point I'm making is that they are closer than you are making it out to be.

You’re now unintentionally arguing in favour of Hutson without even realizing it

Well, as noted, I've already favoured Huston, but the age thing and D starting out slower doesn't really favour Hutson....the analogy was that his comparison to other D rookies vs. Celebrini's comparison to other F rookies isn't the best comparison. If a Dman comes in and has a very strong rookie season, they are already high up compared to other D rookies because they take longer to develop....but don't forget, he already has 2+ years of development ahead of Celebrini....so some D rookies that come in at 18 might take longer, but Hutson didn't come in at 18. Makar's rookie season was more impressive than Hutson's for example (IMO).

 

[Tkachuk4MVP]

Flames projected to be a bottom 5 team and had 30th rank offense had more points than Habs/sharks/flyers. Has to be wolf but I’m prepared for him to finish 4th in Calder, because again he plays for the flames.

Playing for the Sharks doesn’t get you any bonus Calder points either, believe me.

 

[A1LeafNation]

If you are asking me who I would take after this season to build a franchise around...it's Celebrini

 

[Toby91ca]

Flames projected to be a bottom 5 team and had 30th rank offense had more points than Habs/sharks/flyers. Has to be wolf but I’m prepared for him to finish 4th in Calder, because again he plays for the flames.

Not debating this as I haven't given it any thought, but you seem to suggest that Flames players would get overlooked in awards.....who are the players you think have been robbed over the years?

I know, on voting based awards, guys like Suter, Iginla, Nieuwendyk, Giordano, MacInnis, Kiprusoff, Makarov and Hartley have won