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Who was the second best rookie this year?

Who was the second best rookie?

  • Celebrini

  • Wolf

  • Michkov

Results are only viewable after voting.
Toby91ca said:
I'm not doubling down on BS....I've already suggest Hutson should win the award, all I've suggested is that it's a bit an insult to Celebrini to suggest he doesn't even deserved to be discussion the same breath as Hutson, which is what we are saying when we remove Hutson from the conversation and put him in his own tier. I understand Hutson put up great numbers for a rookie Dman, but that's mostly because Dmen tend to take more time to mature, etc. Hutson is 20 or 21, he's not 18 like Celebrini.

I'm not disputing who had the better rookie year, but your comparables didn't make a lot of sense to me...you seemed to be picking comparables that weren't actual comparables for Celebrini to make him look worse....not that it matters anyway as some guys have great rookie years and turn out to be nothing beyond that and some are the opposite. But interesting that you didn't use as comparbles, for example, Jagr, Bure, Kane or MacKinnon. Celebrini's year is arguably comparable or better than some of them.
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Did you even read my last post? I ditched the comparables/cohorts argument because you didn’t think it was fair, as a courtesy to you. Celebrini still loses badly.

Again, Hutson’s rookie season ranks 5th all time in scoring among rookie D.

Celebrini would’ve had to put up 99 points to place 5th all time in rookie scoring among forwards, if we exclude older rookies.

Had he put up 99 points, he’d still be behind Lemieux, Crosby, Hawerchuk, and Ovechkin. Again, this is excluding older rookies, since you made a big stink about that.

Relative to the league this year, it’s the same thing. He would’ve needed 98 points to rank 7th among forwards in scoring.

He was nowhere close to this, and his rookie season was nowhere close to Hutson’s, in relative terms.
 
Flames projected to be a bottom 5 team and had 30th rank offense had more points than Habs/sharks/flyers. Has to be wolf but I’m prepared for him to finish 4th in Calder, because again he plays for the flames.
 
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Garbageyuk said:
Did you even read my last post? I ditched the comparables/cohorts argument because you didn’t think it was fair, as a courtesy to you. Celebrini still loses badly.

Again, Hutson’s rookie season ranks 5th all time in scoring among rookie D.

Celebrini would’ve had to put up 99 points to place 5th all time in rookie scoring among forwards, if we exclude older rookies.

Had he put up 99 points, he’d still be behind Lemieux, Crosby, Hawerchuk, and Ovechkin. Again, this is excluding older rookies, since you made a big stink about that.

Relative to the league this year, it’s the same thing. He would’ve needed 98 points to rank 7th among forwards in scoring.

He was nowhere close to this, and his rookie season was nowhere close to Hutson’s, in relative terms.
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Technically, Celebrini is top 10 all-time in points for an 18 year old. Extrapolate 70 games to 82 and he's top 5. That's not really the point here though. A defenseman that finishes with the 5th highest point totals ever by a rookie dman doesn't automatically mean they've had a better year than a forward who finishes with the 50th highest point totals by a rookie forward. Generally speaking, rookie dmen don't do that well in comparison to forwards. But I'm also not trying to suggest Celebrini's season was on par or better than Hutson's anyway, just suggesting there isn't this huge gap that you are trying to illustrate.
 
Toby91ca said:
Technically, Celebrini is top 10 all-time in points for an 18 year old. Extrapolate 70 games to 82 and he's top 5. That's not really the point here though. A defenseman that finishes with the 5th highest point totals ever by a rookie dman doesn't automatically mean they've had a better year than a forward who finishes with the 50th highest point totals by a rookie forward. Generally speaking, rookie dmen don't do that well in comparison to forwards. But I'm also not trying to suggest Celebrini's season was on par or better than Hutson's anyway, just suggesting there isn't this huge gap that you are trying to illustrate.
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Agreed
 
Wolf was arguably a top 10 goalie in the league this season. Not sure you can say the same about Celebrini or Michkov even being top 20 forwards this season
 
Toby91ca said:
Technically, Celebrini is top 10 all-time in points for an 18 year old. Extrapolate 70 games to 82 and he's top 5.
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Enough. There is no age criteria for the Calder Trophy that applies here. I already accommodated your BS argument enough by excluding older rookies in my earlier post as a show of arguing in good faith, and in favour of Celebrini. He still comes out behind, by a huge margin.

The age argument works against Celebrini here anyway; defensemen take longer to develop than forwards. You said it yourself. Therefore, what Hutson did is even more exceptional.

Also, if you want to get technical and extrapolate and go down that road, Hutson actually had the greatest season by a rookie D in NHL history when adjusted for era.
Toby91ca said:
A defenseman that finishes with the 5th highest point totals ever by a rookie dman doesn't automatically mean they've had a better year than a forward who finishes with the 50th highest point totals by a rookie forward.
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🤦‍♂️. You’re being completely irrational now. Yes it absolutely does, if you’re using common sense and comparing D to D and forwards to forwards. Why on earth would you just compare points between D and forwards straight across, at face value? I guess Bobby Orr’s 139 point season really isn’t all that special because tons of players have scored more than that. It was only 3 points more than a guy like Dennis Maruk after all. Not to mention, Maruk scored 60 goals that year, far more than Bobby Orr ever scored in a season. Thats your logic.
Toby91ca said:
Generally speaking, rookie dmen don't do that well in comparison to forwards.
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You’re now unintentionally arguing in favour of Hutson without even realizing it 😂
Toby91ca said:
just suggesting there isn't this huge gap that you are trying to illustrate.
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Yes. There is. If you use logic like yours that makes absolutely zero sense, I guess you could come to the conclusion that Celebrini was close to Hutson this year, as you’ve shown. In reality, the gap between their rookie seasons is massive.
 
SharksFan1992 said:
Celebrini, and it's not even close. You could argue he's been the best rookie. He finished just 1 point behind Hutson depsite missing a month (10 games less).

In the end it's meaningless. It's just a rookie award. Celebrini will be the far better player in the long run.
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Hutson did what he did as a defenseman. Celebrini is tremendous but Hutson was more impactful

The real answer may well be John Tortorella
 
SharksFan1992 said:
Celebrini, and it's not even close. You could argue he's been the best rookie. He finished just 1 point behind Hutson depsite missing a month (10 games less).

In the end it's meaningless. It's just a rookie award. Celebrini will be the far better player in the long run.
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He wasn’t the best rookie. Not even close. He had a good season. Hutson had a historic season. I think Wolf could make a case for having a better season than Celly. Wold made a difference. Celly, not so much.

I expect Hutson will be better and more impactful throughout their careers!

Celly / Wolf tied for 2nd.
 
Always entertaining seeing these “not even close” and “easily” phrases in some posts lol

Some people from particular fan bases are just so funny sometimes

It’s painful on here sometimes when certain teams have a good player
 
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Tw1ster said:
Pretty wild to see people dismiss his age as a contributing factor when voting happens. Not saying he wins but it definitely makes his season a bit more impressive along with games played
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I should be even more clear— I disagree with the premise of the thread that Hutson is a runaway best rookie. Very likely can win the Calder, but I think Celebrini is in the fight, not a foregone conclusion to be second place.
 
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Junohockeyfan said:
He wasn’t the best rookie. Not even close. He had a good season. Hutson had a historic season. I think Wolf could make a case for having a better season than Celly. Wold made a difference. Celly, not so much.

I expect Hutson will be better and more impactful throughout their careers!

Celly / Wolf tied for 2nd.
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That impact for the Flames has a lot to do with the importance of the goalie position for teams.
 
Celebrini stepped onto the ice as a #1C in his rookie year. Has to be him. The real question is who is third.
 
Phrasing said:
I should be even more clear— I disagree with the premise of the thread that Hutson is a runaway best rookie. Very likely can win the Calder, but I think Celebrini is in the fight, not a foregone conclusion to be second place.
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Right, I think the OP is begging the question with how he/she framed the poll.
 
Wolf is #2.
Several fantastic rookies this year. They’re rookies so time will change things as they develop.
 
CgyFlamesftw said:
Flames projected to be a bottom 5 team and had 30th rank offense had more points than Habs/sharks/flyers. Has to be wolf but I’m prepared for him to finish 4th in Calder, because again he plays for the flames.
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Flames were projected to finnish ahead of MTL and they did.

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