Who to sign to change the DNA?

[Trapper]

I think there’s a fundamental point being missed here: Yzerman elected to change his game to benefit the team’s playoffs success. He became a better two-way player. So while it took sometime to translate to team success, Yzerman changed his game deliberately.

That’s doesn’t look like what’s happened with Matthews.

There are so many things missing from an Yzerman comparison.
First, he was drafted in 83. 6 years after drafting him, the Red Wings took a chance on a 20 year old overager that needed to defect from Russia to get here. Fedorov. They also drafted a 19 year old Swedish player the same draft named Lidstrom who wouldn’t join the team until 91-92 season.
The next year (7 years after Yzerman was drafted) the Wings sucked and drafted 3rd overall. Primeau. A full 8 years after Yzerman was drafted, Fedorov/Lidstrom joined the team and that 3rd overall was eventually traded for Shanahan. During this time Scotty Bowman gave Yzerman an option of being traded or changing. He changed. Did we give those options?
So in this scenario, it would be like Fedorov/Lidstrom just joined Matthews/Marner in 2023. None of this is ever going to happen or be comparable to Yzerman finally winning with a remade team over a decade.

 

[Stephen]

I think there’s a fundamental point being missed here: Yzerman elected to change his game to benefit the team’s playoffs success. He became a better two-way player. So while it took sometime to translate to team success, Yzerman changed his game deliberately.

That’s doesn’t look like what’s happened with Matthews.

Not exactly. Yzerman went through a few injury filled seasons and couldn’t be the offensive superstar he had once been, which necessitated a change in play style… which may be what’s happening with Matthews…

But we also don’t have all the ingredients like a young Fedorov and Lidstrom waiting to take on more responsibilities. We don’t have a Russian Five emerging. We don’t have a blue collar foundation. We don’t have a Scotty Bowman. We don’t have the Ken Holland touch. We don’t have a Brendan Shanahan blockbuster trade. Or a blank cheque, no cap environment.

All we have is Matthews playing a degraded, two way game.

We can win. But we can’t follow someone else’s story superficially. Hockey fans make poor historians.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I saw 19 games, live and in person, at the Scotiabank Arena.

Want to try that nonsense again?

Please, tell us all what the point was. You brought up Steve Yzerman, an accomplished playoff performer who had already guided his team to the Stanley Cup Final, before he won it all in 1997 as if he was a comparable to Auston Matthews right now.

So instead of attacking me, respond to the actual post: Tell me what the point was that I missed entirely?

Nobody is saying that Matthews is as good a playoff performer now as Yzerman was, he eventually won but he wasn't always an accomplished playoff performer

But Matthews is only 27, what had Yzerman won at 27?

The answer is nothing no cups, no cup finals, nothing, just like Matthews today.

Just because Matthews hasn't broken through doesn't mean he can't and it doesn't mean you trade him.

 

[ITM]

Not exactly. Yzerman went through a few injury filled seasons and couldn’t be the offensive superstar he had once been, which necessitated a change in play style… which may be what’s happening with Matthews…

But we also don’t have all the ingredients like a young Fedorov and Lidstrom waiting to take on more responsibilities. We don’t have a Russian Five emerging. We don’t have a blue collar foundation. We don’t have a Scotty Bowman. We don’t have the Ken Holland touch. We don’t have a Brendan Shanahan blockbuster trade. Or a blank cheque, no cap environment.

All we have is Matthews playing a degraded, two way game.

We can win. But we can’t follow someone else’s story superficially. Hockey fans make poor historians.

Actually, it is exactly as I relayed. Certainly, Yzerman had a few injuries there’s no question. You’ll note in the late 80s his production doesn’t drop off despite the first set.

Post-decision, he’s either second or first in team scoring up until 2001 when the effect of his career is unavoidable.

Not one to name drop, but I worked at the Ambassador Duty Free Store on the Canadian side for a time in the early to mid 90s. Met Mike Krushelnyski at the Rebate Center, and he let me and a colleague try on his Stanley Cup ring. Met John Ferguson (Sr.) who had a knowing smile when he saw my reaction as he walked in the doors. A number of others who couldn’t be kinder men.

Including Scotty Bowman who was very generous with his time. Along with tolerating my inquiry about Martin Lapointe and Slava Kozlov and the Canadiens teams he coached, he waxed like a proud papa about the entire teams’s commitment that followed Yzerman’s shift in focus.

There’s no comparison to those Red Wings teams anymore than there’s a comparison to Bowman’s Canadiens teams. And there’s really no substantial comparison between Yzerman and Matthews. At least not yet.

 

[egd27]

He also bought low / mined under-valued players like Reinhart, Bennett, Mikkola, and Nate Schmidt

Isn’t that what Moneyball Dubas was supposed to do?

 

[Tak7]

Isn’t that what Moneyball Dubas was supposed to do?

It's what all 32 GMs are supposed to do.

 

[Lightsol]

If I had inside info that McDavid wanted to come home, I'd be in but I doubt he'll come here after they blow it up. You need to keep at least one of 34 and 88 to play with McDavid. Playing with 97 would wake 34 and 88 up IMO. Those 3 amigos have a better chance of winning you a SC than the our 3 stooges.

"Hey, McDavid, you feel like carrying your hometown team for a couple of years before the fans turn on you too?"
McDavid: N-O.

Regardless, the Leafs are going to suck next year, and that'll take them out of the running not only for McDavid, but for the majority of the good free agents. I suspect by next deadline they'll be trying to convince a bunch of guys to waive their no-trades so they can do what Boston is doing.

 

[Lightsol]

Losing Marner does not take this team from winning the division to missing the playoffs don't be ridiculous.

170+ points going out. On a team that's already dropped 7 spots in GF, and isn't all that great defensively.

I expect their offense next year to be closer to the basement than to the top of the league. I expect Matthews to look next year pretty much like he did this year, because he seems to be in denial about how much his injuries are throwing off his game. I expect every team in the league to follow Florida's pattern and assign their #1 defensive guy to stopping William Nylander, and for Nylander's offense to drop considerably from this year now that teams will be honing in on him rather than treating him like an afterthought. I expect his defensive deficiencies to be exposed, especially if the team tries to use him to replace Marner directly.

I also expect that the Leafs won't sign anybody close to changing all that. Boeser's likely going to Minny. Ehlers and Bennett probably resign. Their big "improvement" might be Marchand, and as good as he's been in the playoffs, his regular season suggests he might be hitting the age ceiling.

In short, I 100% expect this team to try the Over-The-Hill Gang strategy, AGAIN, and have it turn out not to work, AGAIN, and in the process choke away some prime assets, AGAIN. And in three or four years, we'll be a few years into a non-rebuild rebuild, because we don't have the picks to rebuild at the moment. The result will probably look like some of Burke's teams.

 

[ACC1224]

"Hey, McDavid, you feel like carrying your hometown team for a couple of years before the fans turn on you too?"
McDavid: N-O.

Regardless, the Leafs are going to suck next year, and that'll take them out of the running not only for McDavid, but for the majority of the good free agents. I suspect by next deadline they'll be trying to convince a bunch of guys to waive their no-trades so they can do what Boston is doing.

As unlikely that it was that McDavid would come here, it becomes pretty much no chance with Marner leaving.

 

[Trapper]

As unlikely that it was that McDavid would come here, it becomes pretty much no chance with Marner leaving.

Why?

 

[Aashir]

170+ points going out. On a team that's already dropped 7 spots in GF, and isn't all that great defensively.

I expect their offense next year to be closer to the basement than to the top of the league. I expect Matthews to look next year pretty much like he did this year, because he seems to be in denial about how much his injuries are throwing off his game. I expect every team in the league to follow Florida's pattern and assign their #1 defensive guy to stopping William Nylander, and for Nylander's offense to drop considerably from this year now that teams will be honing in on him rather than treating him like an afterthought. I expect his defensive deficiencies to be exposed, especially if the team tries to use him to replace Marner directly.

I also expect that the Leafs won't sign anybody close to changing all that. Boeser's likely going to Minny. Ehlers and Bennett probably resign. Their big "improvement" might be Marchand, and as good as he's been in the playoffs, his regular season suggests he might be hitting the age ceiling.

In short, I 100% expect this team to try the Over-The-Hill Gang strategy, AGAIN, and have it turn out not to work, AGAIN, and in the process choke away some prime assets, AGAIN. And in three or four years, we'll be a few years into a non-rebuild rebuild, because we don't have the picks to rebuild at the moment. The result will probably look like some of Burke's teams.

a bit morbid lol

170+ points? Is marner gretzky or something.

JT is coming back, that's clear as day sadly, and if not then we will bring in another 40-50 point guy to replace him. Even when he had 65 points last year we made the playoffs pretty comfortably.

we will get somebody. Lets say its 2 40 point players with that and one of them is average defensively. Thats 80 out of the 90ish points marner gives us so we end up a bit worse.

Matthews is still good for 90ish point paces even on a down year. He will get his apples in the RS and be close to 40 goal pace like always even as crippled as he was this year.

If nylander gets #1 defencemen he will still produce lol, otherwise every team would just go #1 dman against other good teams and have it work out. Just put #1 dman against Robert Thomas and Jordan Kyrou and they will never win a game again. Ditto for Boston and Pastrnak.

if shutting the leafs down was that easy we'd have seen it happen already. Firstly teams will never take the RS serious enough to do what yoy are saying, and on top of that not every team has d pairings as good as florida and even florida doesn't play the RS as intense as the playoffs.

Nylander will not be used as a 2-way forward obviously, but marner's defence was never the reason we are where we are. We can find 2-way players for the RS like we found Jarnkrok, Kampf, Laughton(Kampf 2.0), Knies, etc....We were an average PK and above average defensive team, and without him we will continue to be that.

The team will still be in the hunt for the playoffs, but i doubt they do anything, not until the other core 3 are gone.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

As unlikely that it was that McDavid would come here, it becomes pretty much no chance with Marner leaving.

McJesus/dad never got along with Mitch/dad in da slightest .. dad did not want Mitch and his dad on da Brick team or on Marlies team .. but keep in mind Paul did Mitch no favours back then as NO one liked him and his rules for Mitch's teams .. that is why mitch played on Toronto bulldogs (not pro hockey)

 

[Gabriel426]

As unlikely that it was that McDavid would come here, it becomes pretty much no chance with Marner leaving.

McJesus/dad never got along with Mitch/dad in da slightest .. dad did not want Mitch and his dad on da Brick team or on Marlies team .. but keep in mind Paul did Mitch no favours back then as NO one liked him and his rules for Mitch's teams .. that is why mitch played on Toronto bulldogs (not pro hockey)

Was there ever a chance McD is coming? Like Oilers is a much better team than the Leafs. Why would McD wants to play for the Leafs and leave the Oilers. If the position of both teams are reversed, I can see McD signing with the Leafs.

But reading JT AM da real deal post, who had mentioned many times about MM in his younger days, don’t think McD will be coming at all, lol.

 

[Mess]

Why?

With Treliving wanting the change the D.N.A and by that he means dumping Dainty Non Aggressive types & demonstrating their desire to increase their Cup competitiveness by cutting Mitch Marner loose, you would think that would lure McDavid home.

But ... he is not leaving Zach Hyman in Edmonton.

 

[Trapper]

With Treliving wanting the change the D.N.A and by that he means dumping Dainty Non Aggressive types & demonstrating their desire to increase their Cup competitiveness by cutting Mitch Marner loose, you would think that would lure McDavid home.

But ... he is not leaving Zach Hyman in Edmonton.

McDavid is most likely a pipe dream but I would leave my roster constructed with some space or the ability to quickly dump what I need if he does go UFA. If he signs before UFA, then you can use what’s available in other areas.

 

[Mess]

McDavid is most likely a pipe dream but I would leave my roster constructed with some space or the ability to quickly dump what I need if he does go UFA. If he signs before UFA, then you can use what’s available in other areas.

I agree 100%

I also think best case scenario would be for the Oilers to win the Cup this season to allow McDavid to compete his assignment without loose ends and unfinished business.

Then when Connor says he wants to go home to finish his career, the Oilers will honour that request.

If you re-capture nearly $11 mil from Marner and hold that in reserve by only investing it in short-term, or easily recoverable if needed that sets the stage for fine homecoming.

 

[MajorLeaf]

The next 6 years are going to be depressing being a Leafs fan.

Have to wait out Matthews contract in 3 years as it doesn’t seem he would sign again and even if he did would the Leafs sign him at 30 years old?

Reilly is not going to waive so the Leafs are stuck with him for another 5 years.

The Leafs look like they are going to sign Tavares when he should not be signed.

Nylander has another 6 years left with NMC at $11.5 mil and won’t be worth that much shortly so have to wait his 6 years left with him.

Short of a miracle this team rebuild will most likely start in 2031 and then have to wait another 3 years at least before upswing could occur.

Don’t see how this DNA change happens with 4 of 5 rotten core on the team for the next few years.

 

[Nineteen67]

McDavid is most likely a pipe dream but I would leave my roster constructed with some space or the ability to quickly dump what I need if he does go UFA. If he signs before UFA, then you can use what’s available in other areas.

It’s probably the only option available if they hope to win anything in the Matthews era.
A lot can happen but next year is looking like another write-off year where the ceiling is making the playoffs

 

[keonsbitterness]

Why?

Wouldn't matter either way.

 

[Banana duck]

Seth Jones was really the only gamble in that group. Big ticket with lots of term.

But when you have absolute confidence in your pro scouting work, and in your coaching structure allows players to join a system that allows them to succeed, all of a sudden Seth Jones looks like one of the best players in these playoffs and nothing like the one who struggled in Columbus and Chicago.

Seth Jones came in 4th in Norris voting when he was in Columbus. Werenski/Jones pair did not struggle in Columbus, they were quite good.

 

[JTK1967]

All numbers are using the AFP Analytics contract projections

3x7.1 - Duchene - 30+g, 82 points last year. We need a 2C, and we need more speed down the middle as Tavares lack of speed gets exposed every playoffs.

1x3.5 - P.Kane - 59 points in 72 games on a lower scoring wings team. Replaces Marner on pp1. Near PPG in playoffs

Knies - Matthews - Kane
McMann - Duchene - Nylander
Domi - Tavares - Marchment
Jeannot - Faksa - Laughton

Trade Kampf, Jarnkrok for anything, trade Robertson for Marchment and burry Reaves.


2x1.4 - Tanner Jeannot - 300 hits per 82, fights, forechecker, has seriously regressed from his offensive peak of 24g 40p down.

2x1.37 - Faksa. 6'3C, 57% faceoffs, 112 hits/82, more takes than gives.

 

[MajorLeaf]

All numbers are using the AFP Analytics contract projections

3x7.1 - Duchene - 30+g, 82 points last year. We need a 2C, and we need more speed down the middle as Tavares lack of speed gets exposed every playoffs.

1x3.5 - P.Kane - 59 points in 72 games on a lower scoring wings team. Replaces Marner on pp1. Near PPG in playoffs

Knies - Matthews - Kane
McMann - Duchene - Nylander
Domi - Tavares - Marchment
Jeannot - Faksa - Laughton

Trade Kampf, Jarnkrok for anything, trade Robertson for Marchment and burry Reaves.


2x1.4 - Tanner Jeannot - 300 hits per 82, fights, forechecker, has seriously regressed from his offensive peak of 24g 40p down.

2x1.37 - Faksa. 6'3C, 57% faceoffs, 112 hits/82, more takes than gives.

Kane is not signing under $4 million, Jeannot will be more in the $3-3.1 mil range and Faksa is not going to under $3.25 million he signed previously.

Doesn’t make sense to sign 2 forth liners to over $6 mil in cap space. Try other cheaper options for the 4th line.

 

[authentic]

So realistically have we accepted that this team is going to be even worse this season? With Marner signing elsewhere who are we really getting to replace him?

 

[ToneDog]

So realistically have we accepted that this team is going to be even worse this season? With Marner signing elsewhere who are we really getting to replace him?

Patience. We should get a better picture in two weeks.

 

[ToneDog]

"Hey, McDavid, you feel like carrying your hometown team for a couple of years before the fans turn on you too?"
McDavid: N-O.

Regardless, the Leafs are going to suck next year, and that'll take them out of the running not only for McDavid, but for the majority of the good free agents. I suspect by next deadline they'll be trying to convince a bunch of guys to waive their no-trades so they can do what Boston is doing.

Turn on the best player in the world. Quite the imagination.