Who to sign to change the DNA?

[Trapper]

It boggles my mind the excuses people come up with for this team.

Bettman, refs, DoPS, taxes, toxic fans, media, pressure, babies being born. You name it someone will use it as a reason to justify the losing. Then to suggest running it back at ever greater cost than before because they lost in seven games this year instead of five.

Respect in the handshake type mentality.

Meanwhile ignoring the reality they still lost. To the same team in the same round as last year for that matter. I guess the thought these guys just aren't good enough never crossed their minds.

Their shameless devotion to a few players have lowered their convictions for the team.

Losers with a loser mentality cheering for other losers losing. I'm not sure what they hope to gain from it all. But a stanley cup winning team isn't one of them.

There really is no excusing this anymore.

And this really is the bottom line to this entire Shanabuild. Unfortunately management shares the Tavares mentality of we were right there. It’s this mentality that has kept us in Groundhog Day mode for 7 years.
Shanahan might be gone, but his work is still here. Even if Marner walks, the culture he created and the other core pieces are still here.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Friedman said his wife recently opened some kind of store in Edmonton. Slim chance he leaves. Only hope is Tre can surround 34 and 88 them with men who will do anything to win a SC.

Love to get a Posposil, O'Connor (COL), Gadjovic, Lomberg, Frederic, AJ Greer type player(s) for our 4th line.

Cowan will help to change culture .. but i think da biggest issues will be Rielly and Matty .. these 2 talk like leaders but bottom line they ain't anymore .. Rielly has lost a few steps and can't do what he did 2 years ago .. Matty is too injury prone and can't handle da heavy game of playoff hockey .. at least of those 2 must go .. to me i would start with Rielly as he isn't going to come back from 2 really poor seasons .. Matty we just don't know enough about whether his back can be healed and withstand a heavy hit .. to me i would move Rielly for a high 2025 pick and eat $2M of his AAV to wherever he wants to go to .. we are gonna get stuck with 5 more years at 7.5M per which is gonna start to reak badly next year .. hard to have a guy sitting in minors like him even if he might just do it to stay in TO .. our D core needs to get better next year .. it needs to be able to withstand da Cats forecheck bottom line otherwise next year is another wasted year

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Cowan will help to change culture .. but i think da biggest issues will be Rielly and Matty .. these 2 talk like leaders but bottom line they ain't anymore .. Rielly has lost a few steps and can't do what he did 2 years ago .. Matty is too injury prone and can't handle da heavy game of playoff hockey .. at least of those 2 must go .. to me i would start with Rielly as he isn't going to come back from 2 really poor seasons .. Matty we just don't know enough about whether his back can be healed and withstand a heavy hit .. to me i would move Rielly for a high 2025 pick and eat $2M of his AAV to wherever he wants to go to .. we are gonna get stuck with 5 more years at 7.5M per which is gonna start to reak badly next year .. hard to have a guy sitting in minors like him even if he might just do it to stay in TO .. our D core needs to get better next year .. it needs to be able to withstand da Cats forecheck bottom line otherwise next year is another wasted year

and we need to build up 3 all round scoring and defensive lines like Cats .. 1/2 lines does not work in playoffs .. we need 3 deep lines and an energy line for 4th .. hopefully we can sign 3 guys to replace Mitch who can produce in all aspects of da game .. get 20 goals per and play on da right side of puck defensively

 

[Tak7]

Cowan will help to change culture .. but i think da biggest issues will be Rielly and Matty .. these 2 talk like leaders but bottom line they ain't anymore .. Rielly has lost a few steps and can't do what he did 2 years ago .. Matty is too injury prone and can't handle da heavy game of playoff hockey .. at least of those 2 must go .. to me i would start with Rielly as he isn't going to come back from 2 really poor seasons .. Matty we just don't know enough about whether his back can be healed and withstand a heavy hit .. to me i would move Rielly for a high 2025 pick and eat $2M of his AAV to wherever he wants to go to .. we are gonna get stuck with 5 more years at 7.5M per which is gonna start to reak badly next year .. hard to have a guy sitting in minors like him even if he might just do it to stay in TO .. our D core needs to get better next year .. it needs to be able to withstand da Cats forecheck bottom line otherwise next year is another wasted year

I'm fascinated, and mildly horrified, by the fact that you can't spell out the word T-H-E.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

I'm fascinated, and mildly irritated, by the fact that you can't spell out the word T-H-E.

Of course he can...

 

[Tak7]

Of course he can...

The hero we need, but don't deserve. Thank you for your service

 

[Beaumaris]

The next 6 years are going to be depressing being a Leafs fan.

Have to wait out Matthews contract in 3 years as it doesn’t seem he would sign again and even if he did would the Leafs sign him at 30 years old?

Reilly is not going to waive so the Leafs are stuck with him for another 5 years.

The Leafs look like they are going to sign Tavares when he should not be signed.

Nylander has another 6 years left with NMC at $11.5 mil and won’t be worth that much shortly so have to wait his 6 years left with him.

Short of a miracle this team rebuild will most likely start in 2031 and then have to wait another 3 years at least before upswing could occur.

Don’t see how this DNA change happens with 4 of 5 rotten core on the team for the next few years.

The next six years ? How about the last fifty odd years ?

 

[AvroArrow]

Not about running it back, but Tavares needs to be re-signed. He's the best 2C on the market and he WANTS to stay in Toronto. I'd be open to something like 6M x 3

Take a run at Marchand, he grew up a Leafs fan and was praising Toronto after the series as well. I've mentioned it a few times but I really want to take a shot at Boeser, but we don't have enough money for all of them.

If Rielly somehow waives, trade him for a depth player + cap relief, sign Provorov

 

[bodechek]

I would retain Nick Robertson and give him a small pay bump if he is willing to take a full time roll in the 3rd or fourth line. He might be small, but was willing to give you all he could. Plus the fact that he does shoot the puck is a plus. The Leafs need depth scoring and he can provide that.

 

[NVious]

Not about running it back, but Tavares needs to be re-signed. He's the best 2C on the market and he WANTS to stay in Toronto. I'd be open to something like 6M x 3

Take a run at Marchand, he grew up a Leafs fan and was praising Toronto after the series as well. I've mentioned it a few times but I really want to take a shot at Boeser, but we don't have enough money for all of them.

If Rielly somehow waives, trade him for a depth player + cap relief, sign Provorov

Tavares isn't a 2C come playoff time, he had the same number of points as 30 year old Max Domi. Actually Domi has 11 points vs his 9 in the last 2 playoffs.

Tavares also has 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 12 games vs the Panthers, Scott Laughton tier production. And he's only going to get worse from here.

Sure he can be a 2C on Buffalo or Detroit or some other mediocre/putrid team and put up a bunch of empty stats, but he should be a last option for the Leafs at Domi contract numbers.

Also in the spirit of "changing DNA," I don't know why bringing back an overpaid loser who did absolutely nothing would be seen as a thing to do.

 

[ToneDog]

and we need to build up 3 all round scoring and defensive lines like Cats .. 1/2 lines does not work in playoffs .. we need 3 deep lines and an energy line for 4th .. hopefully we can sign 3 guys to replace Mitch who can produce in all aspects of da game .. get 20 goals per and play on da right side of puck defensively

Good luck. How long have the Leafs being trying? They threw anybody and everybody they could overboard in order to pay and keep paying 3 proven losers, and traded high draft picks and talent to help get them over the hump to the point where there is virtually nothing of value left. Either they do it or you may as well blow it up because you are not coming close with a 3rd line like the Panthers had these playoffs.

 

[AvroArrow]

Tavares isn't a 2C come playoff time, he had the same number of points as 30 year old Max Domi. Actually Domi has 11 points vs his 9 in the last 2 playoffs.

Tavares also has 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 12 games vs the Panthers, Scott Laughton tier production. And he's only going to get worse from here.

Sure he can be a 2C on Buffalo or Detroit or some other mediocre/putrid team and put up a bunch of empty stats, but he should be a last option for the Leafs at Domi contract numbers.

Also in the spirit of "changing DNA," I don't know why bringing back an overpaid loser who did absolutely nothing would be seen as a thing to do.

Who's the 2C then, assume we walk away from JT as well

 

[ToneDog]

Tavares isn't a 2C come playoff time, he had the same number of points as 30 year old Max Domi. Actually Domi has 11 points vs his 9 in the last 2 playoffs.

Tavares also has 2 goals and 1 assist in his last 12 games vs the Panthers, Scott Laughton tier production. And he's only going to get worse from here.

Sure he can be a 2C on Buffalo or Detroit or some other mediocre/putrid team and put up a bunch of empty stats, but he should be a last option for the Leafs at Domi contract numbers.

Also in the spirit of "changing DNA," I don't know why bringing back an overpaid loser who did absolutely nothing would be seen as a thing to do.

Tavares needs to become our #3C or you are not winning any cup with him as your #2C. At this point he might be good for a round as your #2C. Started well vs Sens but subsequently faded. Sad thing is everybody knew they needed a #2C at the TDL and Tre's answer was Laughton. Sigh.

 

[ULF_55]

Who's the 2C then, assume we walk away from JT as well

Matthews
Domi
Holmberg
Kampf

 

[AvroArrow]

Matthews
Domi
Holmberg
Kampf

That's complete garbage.

 

[Willchel Marlynder]

Lol the only way you change the DNA externally is by bringing in a player better than Matthews that will change the DNA.

Brining in Corey Perry and expecting his to change the DNA set by the captain Matthews is laughable. Same with Marchand. Want to change the DNA? Bring in McDavid and strip the captaincy from Matthews. Otherwise you change the DNA by trading Matthews and starting over.

The DNA isn't changing if Matthews is your best player and leader. Maybe you can win with Matthews as your leader, maybe you can't. But regardless of the outcome the DNA isn't changing.

 

[Leafs87]

Lol the only way you change the DNA externally is by bringing in a player better than Matthews that will change the DNA.

Brining in Corey Perry and expecting his to change the DNA set by the captain Matthews is laughable. Same with Marchand. Want to change the DNA? Bring in McDavid and strip the captaincy from Matthews. Otherwise you change the DNA by trading Matthews and starting over.

The DNA isn't changing if Matthews is your best player and leader. Maybe you can win with Matthews as your leader, maybe you can't. But regardless of the outcome the DNA isn't changing.

You can only strip the C off a current player so many times before it becomes cancerous. See San Jose in their “competitive era”. Thing was a hot potato and eventually led to nothing

 

[ULF_55]

That's complete garbage.

I know, eh?

However, it makes signing better centers easy.

Sets a very low bar, and Treliving can hit it with ease.

 

[ToneDog]

Lol the only way you change the DNA externally is by bringing in a player better than Matthews that will change the DNA.

Brining in Corey Perry and expecting his to change the DNA set by the captain Matthews is laughable. Same with Marchand. Want to change the DNA? Bring in McDavid and strip the captaincy from Matthews. Otherwise you change the DNA by trading Matthews and starting over.

The DNA isn't changing if Matthews is your best player and leader. Maybe you can win with Matthews as your leader, maybe you can't. But regardless of the outcome the DNA isn't changing.

Sadly you might be right. He is no Barkov, Kopitar, Messier, Crosby, Toews, Mackinnon or Gretzky. If he does not change and lead like a true leader, it will be business as usual. Leaders do not claim their lost because they had too many passengers. Saw Spicy Pete interview after the lost to OKC to go down 3-2. He said, "I have to be better" at least times. I do not think those words are in Matty's vocabulary.

 

[Aashir]

Who's the 2C then, assume we walk away from JT as well

from 18-19:
JT: 31 in 50 (27G and TWENTY TWO ASSISTS per 82)
WN: 50 in 54 (36G 40A per 82)
but nylander and JT didn't really start playing with each other until 2021-2022 so maybe it's better since then:
JT: 23 in 38 (28G TWENTY ONE ASSISTS per 82)
WN: 35 in 35 (38G 45A per 82)

Per series they average over the same span:
JT: 9.5GP | 3.3G | 2.5A | 5.8P
WN: 8.8GP | 4G | 4.8A | 8.8P

so john tavares's most common linemate over the last 4 years is a ppg winger on a near 40 goal pace and is a 40+ assist guy and he can only muster an average 2.5A per series.

and just go back into history, when was the last time (or first time) john tavares was a top 3 player in a series? What about just a top 3 leaf?

not 2025 he was horrible for all of florida and he was meh against ottawa past game 2
not 2024 he had 2 total points with his biggest contributions being he killed the pp entries
not 2023 where he was 1 touch pass away from having donuts in an entire series
not 2022 where he produced the same amount as 44
not 2021 where he was unfortunately injured
not 2020 where he was missing wide open nets in elimination games
not 2019 where he was tasked to shutdown bergeron and was still a -5

you can bring JT back, but it cannot be 2C as he time and time again shows he's not a top 6 player come playoff time. either a 3x3.5ish type of deal or walk away, we don't need players who don't show up in the playoffs every season

 

[NVious]

Who's the 2C then, assume we walk away from JT as well

The point of this thread is the need for DNA change which is something all of us agree with Tre this team badly needs.

Tavares is part of the overpaid loser DNA, at 6m relative to his playoff stats its bordering on a crazy overpay, anything beyond that is insane. He is OK at 4mill (Domi numbers who he didn't outproduce in the playoffs) and great value at 2M.

The bottom line is Tavares ALREADY failed in his PRIME as the 2C, it's time for something new, not trying an older/slower/worse version of him as the 2C (when he couldn't get it done before). Whether we can somehow snag Bennet or we add Ekblad/Marchand or maybe Boeser.

Something new needs to be tried, Tavares is a last option. The notion we need to pay "market value" (because Buffalo/Detroit would love Tavares at 6) for a proven loser who already fleeced us is not changing the DNA, it's perpetuating the problem, overpaying for guys who keep losing.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Tavares needs to become our #3C or you are not winning any cup with him as your #2C. At this point he might be good for a round as your #2C. Started well vs Sens but subsequently faded. Sad thing is everybody knew they needed a #2C at the TDL and Tre's answer was Laughton. Sigh.

Yep I am likely overly optimistic

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Get rid of Nylander. The fact that people on this forum call him "clutch" is absolutely laughable. Guy is a cherry picking figure skater. His play in the Florida series after Game 2 was absolutely atrocious.

 

[Trapper]

Get rid of Nylander. The fact that people on this forum call him "clutch" is absolutely laughable. Guy is a cherry picking figure skater. His play in the Florida series after Game 2 was absolutely atrocious.

Clutch and this core do not go together.

 

[ToneDog]

Get rid of Nylander. The fact that people on this forum call him "clutch" is absolutely laughable. Guy is a cherry picking figure skater. His play in the Florida series after Game 2 was absolutely atrocious.

He was worried, Bennett and Tkachuk were going to mess up his pretty face and hair. Can't have that going back to Sweden in a few more games.