Speculation: Who should be the new GM of the Washington Capitals?

[jsykes]

He address teams needs (defense), he uses the draft, he trades when necessary, and he understands how to leverage free agency. His teams were never hamstrung by the Cap, and he went further in the playoffs than the Caps did rountinely.

Actually he hasnt really done any of that by building a team that has failed long before it should have. He has extended and continually not addressed the goalie issue which others have pointed out have been reasons for early exits from the playoffs. And they have had cap issues due to their stars making huge money.

Put it this way...what GM candidate out there has done more over the past 6 years?

What has he done over the last 6 years? Completely underachieved according to the Pens.

But whatever. I cant really say for sure one way or the other if it works, however, I dont see it as a positive. I see it as a lateral move.

 

[jsykes]

Before we go any further...I never said he was an improvement over McPhee. Lets get that straight right off the bat.

gotcha, so I think we're on the same page then as far as that goes.

At this point...there are how many decent candidates?

....

I see a guy that has been and can be a legitimate GM in the NHL...and the Caps not with one at the moment. Give me a better candidate and we can compare notes.

Ok, I see your point. I'm just of a different mind. Since imo Shero hasnt proven to be better than GMGM, I guess I'm willing to take a chance on someone else, (who may be a wildcard or unproven one way or the other) rather than go with someone that hasnt proven to be better.

I dont want to see another 5 years of the same old thing of having a good team that underachieves and that seems to be Shero's MO, so I'd rather take a chance on someone else because its not the status quo, good or bad.

 

[RockDaRed]

we saw in Pitt he's not afraid to go after a guy he wants though. That's something Mcphee wouldn't do. We need a guy who is willing to be active.

 

[Langway]

Shero also passed on Filip Forseberg a couple of years ago -- the Pens were drafting before the Caps. I too am not crazy about Shero. Other than having Crosby and Malkin fall into his lap, what has he done?

Meh. Passing on Trouba looks to be the worse decision. Ultimately it's still on Shero for not having the right people/protocols in place when drafting. That's already established here, although I'm sure he'd look to tweak things a bit.

Benning has had a big hand in building up those Boston teams, both on the amateur and pro scouting sides. He may be the best evaluator out there. Not sure if him to VAN is a done deal or not. I wonder if Shero being available makes them reconsider, particularly since Linden is very much still learning the ropes.

Both WSH & PIT have cultural issues that call for significant changes. Ownership and their respective star players are partially to blame. I think Shero could come in and change that dynamic provided he's able to make targeted trades and bring in a stable experienced coach. Shero likely would improve their blueline--although pretty much anyone will--but I'm not sure he would improve the mix up front. They have some skill on the way in Kuznetsov & Burakovsky but might Shero be the type smitten by Laich & Brouwer? He seems like he would. Combine that with Trotz and you wonder if they wouldn't turn too grinder-y, although with an actual blueline that's not entirely terrible.

 

[Atlas]

Our team sucks.

We need a builder. The Caps organization has a few gems like Ovie, Kuz and Burakovsky. And some solid guys like Alzner and Carlson and Ward. But there are a lot of question marks and lots of actual trash.

I don't know what Gretzky, Shero and the rest have in mind but coming in and moving pieces around won't do anything. We need a brilliant, obsessed-with-hockey maniac to build an organization here.

 

[strungout]

Ok, I see your point. I'm just of a different mind. Since imo Shero hasnt proven to be better than GMGM, I guess I'm willing to take a chance on someone else, (who may be a wildcard or unproven one way or the other) rather than go with someone that hasnt proven to be better.

I dont want to see another 5 years of the same old thing of having a good team that underachieves and that seems to be Shero's MO, so I'd rather take a chance on someone else because its not the status quo, good or bad.

But....he has though. He gotten a team to the Finals...twice...won once. He gotten a team to the ECF three times.

While I dont know if he'd be much better than Mafki....he might just be a bit better in the areas Mafki struggled in. Pulling the trigger when he needs to pull the trigger.

I dont know. I see it as a lateral move with upside compared to unknown.

 

[Ridley Simon]

And so we admit he didnt do things right?



But did he really? He had only been their two years before the Cup year. Did he really build that team and win the Cup or was it Bylsma that came in and turned the team around and took them that far? Maybe he did, but what has he done since?

The Caps comparison is just as you say, it could have been completely different histories with a single game 7. How is that indicative of how good Shero is?



Is he really a good GM? If so, why is he being fired?

Why is the entire hockey community discussing how bad the Pens have been built for the last few days since they lost? Why are they all saying that this team should have won 2 or 3 cups in the time since their last one? How come they're saying its not that they havent won the Cup, but its how they've blown it and that is due to the way the team is built?

Everyone is saying that the Pens have been a failure in these last few years and its why Pitt is making the change.

I do realize good GMs do lose jobs, but I see Shero under the Pens as a direct comparison to GMGM and the Caps and the underachievement of both teams. In the presser, they mentioned its not just this season, but cited 5 consecutive years of underachieving as a reason they're making the change.

I do not see him as a positive move for this team right now nor a great GM at building a team around certain players, which is what this teams needs right now.

Every GM/Coach makes mistakes. What, you want to find one with a perfect track record?? Seriously?

Why did he get fired? Because its Pro Sports, and everyone gets fired. I know we live in a sheltered world in Caps land where guys like McPhee can be in charge for decades...but thats an anamoly. Shero got fired becuase only one team can win it every year, and his team didnt. Under that thought process, George should have been fired a long long time ago, yet he didnt.

Who exactly is your choice for the job? Its easy to crack on someone elses choice, when you dont make one of your own.

 

[Ridley Simon]

Actually he hasnt really done any of that by building a team that has failed long before it should have. He has extended and continually not addressed the goalie issue which others have pointed out have been reasons for early exits from the playoffs. And they have had cap issues due to their stars making huge money.



What has he done over the last 6 years? Completely underachieved according to the Pens.

But whatever. I cant really say for sure one way or the other if it works, however, I dont see it as a positive. I see it as a lateral move.

He signed the same Goalie that your favourite GM (McPhee) signed (Vokoun) to try and address the MAF issue. MAF makes almost 6m a season, which he earned dur to 2 runs to the Cup finals. How do you trade a 6m salary that no one else wants? He was stuck with that, much like we seem to be stuck with some salaries that arent warranted.

I dont even know what you are saying about the Defense. Shero built a MUCH better defense than the Caps have had..since the 90's. Its not debatable.

Shero won a cup 6 years ago, and went to 2 more ECF's. So 3 runs abjectly better than anything we've seen in these parts, ever.

And you still have yet to point to the guy you think they should hire. I am waiting--

 

[g00n]

Crapping on GMs and coaches that have won Cups because the guys we've had were supposedly just as good? Really? As fans of a franchise that hasn't won squat?

 

[IafrateOvie34]

Don't know what to think or feel.

Just glad Oates is gone.


Edit:

Wonder what Shero+Mahoney draft would be like.

I'm also wondering about this. I have no objection to Shero being the next Caps GM. Right now, he is the most current, established GM candidate on the market. One thing I do like about him, he isn't afraid to make roster moves. I think a Shero/Trotz combo would be interesting.

 

[ChibiPooky]

One name with experience that hasn't really been mentioned is Rutherford. Not sure I'd be on board for him but he's still out there.

 

[Langway]

One name with experience that hasn't really been mentioned is Rutherford. Not sure I'd be on board for him but he's still out there.

Outside of the Sekera deal he's skimped on defense for years (and quality depth players). Not a fan.

 

[Ridley Simon]

gotcha, so I think we're on the same page then as far as that goes.



Ok, I see your point. I'm just of a different mind. Since imo Shero hasnt proven to be better than GMGM, I guess I'm willing to take a chance on someone else, (who may be a wildcard or unproven one way or the other) rather than go with someone that hasnt proven to be better.

I dont want to see another 5 years of the same old thing of having a good team that underachieves and that seems to be Shero's MO, so I'd rather take a chance on someone else because its not the status quo, good or bad.

How can you even say that? Lets Dismiss the fact that they won a cup (which, I dont know how you can dismiss that, but whatever....), and look at your premise that they have failed the last 5 years.

Since they won the Cup, they have won 4 series and lost 5 (not winning the Cup means they will lose a series a season). So 4-5.

Caps, on the other hand, behind George's leadership, since the Pens won their most recent cup, are 2-4. Missing the playoffs once.

How is 4 series wins and making it every year the same as 2 series wins and missing it once? How is that the same?

I believe only 6 teams have won more series in those 5 years. Chicago, Boston, LA, Philadelphia, New York Rangers, and San Jose. Thats it. I will bet you $1,000,000 bucks that Flyers, Sharks, and Rags fans would trade the Pens recent history over their own.

So its really Hawks, Bruins, and Kings.

You are just WAY off base.

 

[ChibiPooky]

Outside of the Sekera deal he's skimped on defense for years (and quality depth players). Not a fan.

Isn't Carolina a budget team, though? I mean he probably could have built the same way as Poile in NSH even so.

 

[Atlas]

I'm also wondering about this. I have no objection to Shero being the next Caps GM. Right now, he is the most current, established GM candidate on the market. One thing I do like about him, he isn't afraid to make roster moves. I think a Shero/Trotz combo would be interesting.

This is about where I am except for Trotz. I'm not big on him. But the coach isn't all that important this year since we ain't gonna win anything for a good while. Shero is a definite maybe for me.

 

[Hivemind]

Also it would be awesome to watch Pens fans reactions if Shero can take this team the ECF or further, and we take the coach they all want (Trotz).

Some Pittsburgh radio hosts have fanned the flames on the Babcock leaving Detroit thing. A lot of Pens fans want him now, even over Trotz.

Yeah we have good scouts here to feed info to the gm. As someone else said it's not all Shero fault pens drafted poorly. Maybe they have bad scouts.

Shero was the head of hockey ops. Assigning and managing the scouts is part of his responsibility. If he didn't have good enough scouts, he should have pressured ownership to let him get better ones. He had the final say on draft picks and pretty clearly demonstrated a trend of not drafting European-groomed talent (Maatta, like every other early round selection he made, was drafted out of a North American league). During his entire tenure in Pittsburgh, he only produced three forwards who played in the NHL (J. Staal, Jeffrey, Bennet).

Shero definitely deserves a lot of blame for his drafting in Pittsburgh. Whatever decisions he made regarding the amateur scouting staff, their assignments, their priorities, and what type of players to draft clealry did not work in the least. And the stark differences in drafting philosophy compared to the McPhee/Mahoney regime frighten me.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

I thought Rutherford just moved up in the Carolina organization, and his stepping down was more of a retirement? The Francis thing has been in the works for years.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

And no thanks again on Shero. He's shares some weaknesses with McPhee (consistently failing to improve need areas, constructing soft defenses) along with some of his own (the draft most notably). He's more aggressive in trades, which I suppose is a plus.

Before heaping so much praise on him for the Cup, keep in mind he had the best 2-player combination of any GM in the sport to win one with. The fact that his teams have only reached the conference finals once since that Cup indicates how good he is at adapting.

This is the guy that took Jordan Staal over Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, and Phil Kessel. He should have been able to build a dynasty.

 

[Hivemind]

This is the guy that took Jordan Staal over Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, and Phil Kessel. He should have been able to build a dynasty.

Hindsight is 20/20. Most analysts and pundits had Staal ranked higher than those players. Central scouting had Staal as the #2 NA skater (behind EJ). ISS had him at #3, still ahead of Backstrom and Kessel. I have major problems with his drafting, but unless it's revealed he wrote off Backstrom or Toews for playing outside of Canadian juniors, the Staal selection is not one of them.

 

[NobodyBeatsTheWiz]

Hindsight is 20/20. Most analysts and pundits had Staal ranked higher than those players. Central scouting had Staal as the #2 NA skater (behind EJ). ISS had him at #3, still ahead of Backstrom and Kessel. I have major problems with his drafting, but unless it's revealed he wrote off Backstrom or Toews for playing outside of Canadian juniors, the Staal selection is not one of them.

McKenzie had Staal 4 (behind Toews and Kessel), and his rankings are a compilation of what he hears from scouts and front office personnel around the league. So it's pretty safe to say that most of the league had Staal behind those two.

And isn't it a GM's job to know better than analysts and pundits?

 

[usiel]

And no thanks again on Shero. He's shares some weaknesses with McPhee (consistently failing to improve need areas, constructing soft defenses) along with some of his own (the draft most notably). He's more aggressive in trades, which I suppose is a plus.

Before heaping so much praise on him for the Cup, keep in mind he had the best 2-player combination of any GM in the sport to win one with. The fact that his teams have only reached the conference finals once since that Cup indicates how good he is at adapting.

This is the guy that took Jordan Staal over Jonathan Toews, Nicklas Backstrom, and Phil Kessel. He should have been able to build a dynasty.

Bolded is kinda crazy. I give Shero some props on the trading deadline day. Drafting...ugh.

 

[Langway]

Shero was hired a month before the '06 draft so it's not like he had the opportunity to live scout those players or put his own staff in place. He could video scout them and lean on the opinions of others he inheirited but he wasn't able to scout them personally (outside of the combine I suppose).

I'd sooner rip all of his other drafts since then as being a large part of why that team hasn't been better. Again, if Washington retains Mahoney his spotty draft history gets compensated for. The area I'd wonder more about is the pro scouting side (and Shero's ability overall to surround himself with capable people outside of Botterill). Washington's pro scouting has been poor for some time now IMO and Shero haven't proved to be all that much better outside of a couple of shrewd trades.

Benning seems like the best evaluator so it's hard not to have him at the top of the list. The Caps either need a keen evaluator or at least someone that knows how to surround himself with people capable of doing it. If there's a failing for Shero in Pittsburgh to me it's that he never seemed to bring in that capable front office support staff.

There was a McKenzie tweet today suggesting Rutherford is believed to be interested in GMing elsewhere. Carolina has been a budget team but, still, he left a lot to be desired the past few years in putting teams together.

 

[caps4cup]

Every GM is going to have faults. The franchise can go in two directions. Either try to go for it, which we have a good enough core to do, and get a guy like Shero. He's not afraid to make a trade and make some signings to fill holes. Or try to retool, in which case maybe you go for a rookie GM?

I think ownership is probably leaning towards the first choice. And it's not a bad thing. For all the flaws this team has had over the years they have a pretty good foundation. They have 2 point per game forwards, a top 3 forward prospect in the NHL, a top pair 60 point Dman when unleashed, a great 2nd pairing, and a young goaltender that is capable of being elite. If Shero, or whoever the new GM is, can acquire a 2C, a good top 6 winger, and a top pairing Dman, this team will being a legitimate contender next year. It's easier said than done but Shero could very well do that.

Maybe if Shero gets hired he will want strong depth down the middle like Pittsburgh and try to acquire Thornton or Spezza, which is what this team needs.

 

[Hivemind]

I'd sooner rip all of his other drafts since then as being a large part of why that team hasn't been better. Again, if Washington retains Mahoney his spotty draft history gets compensated for.

Once again, I'm skeptical of the chemistry between Mahoney and Shero. If Shero defers to Mahoney, sure. If Shero takes the philosophy he used while leading Pittsburgh, I'm more worried. Shero's teams spent more draft picks (six) on players out of US high schools than European leagues (five, none earlier than the 3rd round). Beau Bennett (one of Shero's four BCHL picks) is the only 1st rounder he drafted outside of the CHL.

Mahoney, on the other hand, earned much of his pay with his work with Swedish and Russian scouts (and having a GM willing to spend early picks on European groomed players). In the span that Shero was in charge in Pittsburgh, the Capitals picked just three CHL players in the first round (Carlson, Alzner, Wilson), but five Swedes(Backstrom, Johansson, Forsberg, Burakovsky, Gustafsson) and two Russians (Kuznetsov, Varlamov). The difference in draft philisophies is pretty stark.

 

[strungout]

I miss Mafki.