Who might be moving to Glens Falls?

[Artie Fufkin]

false, and Artie, what makes you an expert on the AHL? APPARENTLY YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING

I don't know. Maybe living in Binghamton for 20 years, 3 blocks from one of the owners? Try to be a little more mature.

 

[NHL Hartford]

false, that's why the Whalers bolted, Tackla, Karmanos had tired of state government promising him something that has yet to be delivered.

Hutch please get a clue. Rowland and the state had a deal in place with Karmanos to build a $147Mil arena but guess who kept deciding it wasn't good enough last minute? Karmanos. In case you haven't realized he bought the Whalers to relocate them.

I'll admit it was tough for a smaller market such as Hartford to back in the 80's & 90's to thrive (even though they did from 85-88) but in today's day and age of the salary cap, revenue sharing, endless t.v. opportunities, social media at the disposal for marketing a team; the conditions of operating a team in Hartford have obviously changed to the point the market has just a good of a chance at success as 90% of the league whether you think so or not.

Like Tackla pointed out while Hartford had lows we also had a lot of high points as well. The difference between Hartford and the other franchises who ran into trouble was that they were afforded the opportunity to work through their problems Hartford was not. 3 winning seasons out of 18 coupled with horrible trades and inept leadership can cause a fanbase to grow apathetic. It's impossible for an NHL club today to be as bad as the Whalers were during their tenure.

 

[NHL Hartford]

Hartford might have been a great hockey town at one time, but not anymore. The fanbase has become one giant clusternut. Between fans that won't go because its not NHL, because they hate the Rangers affiliation, because they blame the Rangers for the Whalers leaving, because they're not named the Whalers, because they changed name mid season to the Connecticut Whale, because Uconn is playing in the XL next year, and because of just general apathy has created a very acidic and dead atmosphere on game nights.

That's not to say Hartford couldn't give decent support to a team, just that they need a neutral affiliate, and a new start with a team new identity.

No Whalers fan I have ever run across has ever suggested MSG was the reason the Whalers left lol. They are just not admired for entering our market when a. this market is comprised of New England hockey fans not NY b. they didn't wait to let the sting of the Whalers leaving dissipate from the market c. They named the team after NC State (I don't care what anybody says) if they didn't they wouldn't have named them that and d. We could have like you said a neutral affiliate if it wasn't for them coming here when they're are not even wanted and ignoring their own state they play in where they would be much more appreciated.

To your remark about the Hartford no longer being a good hockey market, that's because we don't have NHL anymore. Bring back the NHL and you unite all those factions again because no one will reject filet mignon.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Hutch, he's correct.... The Binghamton Whalers and Binghamton Rangers were the same franchise. The affiliation changed, hence the change from the Whalers to the Rangers. It wasn't until '97 when MSG purchased the franchise did they move it to Hartford.

FALSE, and you know better than that,

Ottawa is the one paying for that franchise, and it's subletted to Mitchell to operate.

I thought rookie posters were barred from posting until they could show what they were talking about.

HARTFORD isn't getting another franchise if MSG pulls out, and those who REFUSE to accept that need to GROW UP

 

[Artie Fufkin]

FALSE, and you know better than that,

Ottawa is the one paying for that franchise, and it's subletted to Mitchell to operate.

I thought rookie posters were barred from posting until they could show what they were talking about.

HARTFORD isn't getting another franchise if MSG pulls out, and those who REFUSE to accept that need to GROW UP

I guess that would be news to Tim Smith.

 

[NHL Hartford]

FALSE, and you know better than that,

Ottawa is the one paying for that franchise, and it's subletted to Mitchell to operate.

I thought rookie posters were barred from posting until they could show what they were talking about.

HARTFORD isn't getting another franchise if MSG pulls out, and those who REFUSE to accept that need to GROW UP

Umm actually they were already talking with other AHL franchises this summer. Hutch for being the all knower of the AHL you've proven you know ziltch through your postings. Wolf Pack will be gone and when they are Global Spectrum is contractually obliged to get another AHL team. Get a clue buddy.

 

[Abbeycam]

Richmond's a memory, it started to die once Norfolk was promoted, Abbey, it just wasn't economically feasible even when the Renegades were brought back in a different league.

Richmond had trouble even keeping the Braves from fleeing to Gwinnett.

That's just it, while I would love to see hockey back here I have been saying it WON'T WORK WITHOUT A HAMPTON ROADS RIVAL. Richmond v Norfolk (Hampton Roads) always drew 8,000-10,000 per game and also kept the fringe fans coming back.
Wish we could catch a relocation team with deep pockets.

 

[wildcat48]

FALSE, and you know better than that,

Ottawa is the one paying for that franchise, and it's subletted to Mitchell to operate.

I thought rookie posters were barred from posting until they could show what they were talking about.

HARTFORD isn't getting another franchise if MSG pulls out, and those who REFUSE to accept that need to GROW UP

Come on Hutch.... Grow up! I wasn't even talking about the BSens. I never once mentioned the BSens. You were wrong about the history of the Binghamton Whalers/Rangers and was being corrected. Nowhere along the way was the BSens mentioned.

Friendly advice... You need to make sure to read posts clearly because you get yourself into trouble and open yourself up to criticism from other poster when if you just took a moment to read what was written that wouldn't happen.

 

[offkilter]

Wrong. The Binghamton Whalers and the Binghamton Rangers was the same franchise with the same local owners. The NY Rangers never owned the AHL team when it played in Binghamton. The NY Rangers bought the franchise from the local owners in 1997 in order to move it to Hartford.

AHL hockey in Binghamton has always been locally owned and operated.

Okay just to clear things up for me, because this thread has become muddled and hard to follow, and I'm royally confused.

Hutch mentions Hartford is close to NYC and left Binghamton.

You mention Hartford as in the Whalers affiliation getting the boot from Bingo.

I'm assuming he's talking about when the Rangers moved the team to become the Wolfpack.

Of course they're the same franchise they have to be if one owners bought the team from the other.

My question is, why do some sources claim the Rangers bought the team in 1990 and not 1997? Did people get confused with the affilition change, or is it possible the New York Rangers owners bought a minority stake in 90 then bought out the team in 97? Why did the Bingo owners sell the team to the Rangers owners anyways?

 

[Tommy Hawk]

I just want to know who is moving to GF, if ANYONE is moving..... I think Springfield.....

 

[McDrailers]

Hershey Bears.

Do any AHL teams make money? Seriously question. The ones I'm familiar with seem to all bleed money but the local governments take care of them in some way or another.

St.John's as well. 103 straight sell outs of 6k. Money is being made in bundles

 

[Tommy Hawk]

St.John's as well. 103 straight sell outs of 6k. Money is being made in bundles

I doubt that. They may be grossing a boatload but travel ain't cheap...I bet they are losing money hand over fist. The Wolves have always been one of the top attendance teams and they lose money.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Come on Hutch.... Grow up! I wasn't even talking about the BSens. I never once mentioned the BSens. You were wrong about the history of the Binghamton Whalers/Rangers and was being corrected. Nowhere along the way was the BSens mentioned.

Friendly advice... You need to make sure to read posts clearly because you get yourself into trouble and open yourself up to criticism from other poster when if you just took a moment to read what was written that wouldn't happen.

friendly advice back to those rookie posters, don't you think?????????? not once did I claim that they were the same franchise, the rookie poster made that mistake

and it may or may not be Hartford anyway based off what they did last year, I, frankly am disgusted with uninformed posters still claiming that Hartford is an NHL Territory

 

[Artie Fufkin]

Okay just to clear things up for me, because this thread has become muddled and hard to follow, and I'm royally confused.

Hutch mentions Hartford is close to NYC and left Binghamton.

You mention Hartford as in the Whalers affiliation getting the boot from Bingo.

I'm assuming he's talking about when the Rangers moved the team to become the Wolfpack.

Of course they're the same franchise they have to be if one owners bought the team from the other.

My question is, why do some sources claim the Rangers bought the team in 1990 and not 1997? Did people get confused with the affilition change, or is it possible the New York Rangers owners bought a minority stake in 90 then bought out the team in 97? Why did the Bingo owners sell the team to the Rangers owners anyways?

It was a combination of factors. With the Hartford Whalers leaving, it gave MSG a chance to own their AHL franchise in a building they managed. The Rangers made the ownership group in Binghamton an offer above the going rate for AHL franchises. Some in the group didn't want to sell, but ultimately those that did won out.

Binghamton was considered as a landing spot for the Carolina Monarchs franchise. But given the uncertainty around the franchise, the county legislature decided to sign a lease with the UHL.

The only thing that changed in 1990 was the name and the affiliation.

 

[Tackla]

I just want to know who is moving to GF, if ANYONE is moving..... I think Springfield.....

Yes can we get back to this. I think the Wolf Pack could. Springfield is supposedly staying next year. Bridgeport is waiting to move to a renovated Nassau Coliseum. Portland is staying. Oklahoma City is doing poorly, but may move to Hartford to take the Wolf Pack's spot. Glens Falls to Edmonton would be more difficult than Hartford to Edmonton.

 

[mmazz22]

Artie is spot on about Bng history.
Franchise came into AHL in 77-78. Owned by Jim Matthews. He sold it the following year to a french man Andre Vellux. He owned it for 2 seasons. Sold it to Hartford in 1980. Name changed to Binghamton Whalers from Broome Dusters. Hartford sold to local owners in I think 85 or 86.
The last two seasons of the whale were horrible. The Rangers were wanting out of Flint Michigan of the IHl , looking to get back to the AHL . Local owners as mentioned were fed up with Hartford. The deal was up and being this is Ranger country it was a no brainer to bring the Rangers here as the parent club. Like mentioned before the team was sold to the Rangers in 97. There was still one more year on the affilitation deal but the rangers if the owners held out were going to put a crap product on the ice.
It was horrible when the AHL left. i always felt the UHL was rushed in here but that is another story for another day.
So again the NY Rangers never owned the Binghamton Rangers. Not even a 1% share. The Ottawa Senators don't own or subiside the Bing Sens. In fact its the other way around as the BSens local owners obviously pay Ottawa an affiliation fee.
I dont see the BSens moving to Glens Falls. I don't see an upside in it. Building is nt any better, crowds aren't any better, travel is nt any better.
I do hope Glens Falls lands a team as that place is my most favorite AHL city. I love that rink.
I am partial to old classic rink's with ton's of history. I do hope Glen's falls lands a team as I feel the city has done a nice job supporting what has always been a lame duck franchise for them and quite honestly not the best on ice product in their what five year history. Good luck GF!

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Yes can we get back to this. I think the Wolf Pack could. Springfield is supposedly staying next year. Bridgeport is waiting to move to a renovated Nassau Coliseum. Portland is staying. Oklahoma City is doing poorly, but may move to Hartford to take the Wolf Pack's spot. Glens Falls to Edmonton would be more difficult than Hartford to Edmonton.

But remember it is not just Hartford to Edmonton. What if they need someone that day in say Phoenix. Hartford to Phoenix or LA or SJ or Dallas Or St. Louis is is worse than OKC to those places since there are more flights in and out of OKC than hartford.

I think it is going to be someone used to not being able to really call up players quickly...

 

[Nightsquad]

I think the issue with the Civic Center up in Adirondack is that the average attendance figures for them are not real world. Those numbers are bolstered by their two games played down in Philly which usually draw a minimum of 15,000 to 18,000 fans per game. Also to the press up in Albany report how Albany fans play a big roll in Adirondack attendance on their rival nights. I can see if Albany didn't have a team that many of those fans would surely gravitate more often to the two local NCAA D1 teams nearby just outside of Albany. That Union University Dutchmen team is no joke, top 5 in country for college hockey.

 

[210]

I think the issue with the Civic Center up in Adirondack is that the average attendance figures for them are not real world. Those numbers are bolstered by their two games played down in Philly which usually draw a minimum of 15,000 to 18,000 fans per game. Also to the press up in Albany report how Albany fans play a big roll in Adirondack attendance on their rival nights. I can see if Albany didn't have a team that many of those fans would surely gravitate more often to the two local NCAA D1 teams nearby just outside of Albany. That Union University Dutchmen team is no joke, top 5 in country for college hockey.

That number you see in the attendance listing is meaningless for just about every team. Teams report what they consider attendance to be, which is what appears in the box score.

Teams also report to the AHL the actual number of fans in the building and the number of free tickets distributed. Those numbers are not released to the public, but every team has access to them and knows what those numbers are, and any group looking to purchase a team also has access to those numbers.

 

[CJNewman]

I think the issue with the Civic Center up in Adirondack is that the average attendance figures for them are not real world. Those numbers are bolstered by their two games played down in Philly which usually draw a minimum of 15,000 to 18,000 fans per game. Also to the press up in Albany report how Albany fans play a big roll in Adirondack attendance on their rival nights. I can see if Albany didn't have a team that many of those fans would surely gravitate more often to the two local NCAA D1 teams nearby just outside of Albany. That Union University Dutchmen team is no joke, top 5 in country for college hockey.

First they have played only one game in Philly so far this year not two yet. Also a lot of teams play one game in their NHL affiliate to boost attendance and I see no mention of Rochester who played an outdoor game and one in Buffalo boosting their attendance. Plus I would love to know the Albany media source you got your info about Albany fans helping Glens Falls attendance because other than Pete Dougherty of the Times Union no one covers the Devils and as a fan who has been to many games between the two I can tell you it's the complete opposite. The Phantom fans used to come down from Glens Falls by the hundreds to Albany to see the games where you might see 20 Devils fans in Glens Falls at most any time they would play. So in conclusion I would love to know your source for your information or are you just making stuff up.

 

[RFA]

Good to see that more people are realizing that the announced attendance figure is not worth anything. Fun to discuss at times, but holds no value at all.

I'd like to know who said/wrote that also, I might start watching or reading. Capital Region media pays little attention to the Devils, and less to the Phantoms. Channel 6 does a good job reporting on the Phantoms games, but there's little if any discussion of off-ice topics.

AHL hockey has out-drawn ECAC hockey consistently since the 80s in the Albany area. The media spends more effort covering them, but face it, the coaches are also salesmen for their programs so it's an easier story. Union does have a highly ranked team, but the players have not had much success after college in hockey, and plays in a 2,500 seat building, and doesn't sell it out consistently. RPI closed off entire sections of the 5,000+ fieldhouse to make it look like more people are there.

It appears that the Springfield to GF deal fell apart when Landon stepped aside. At this point it's tough to say what will happen. I'd guess that the Devils are the front-runners to move in, but I don't think that's a sure thing by any means.

Albany County and SMG do have as part of their contract that an AHL level team will call the arena home. So if the Devils do move north it will start another round of gossip.

It was also a generally accepted rumor that the only money Walt Robb made with the Rats was the last two seasons at the games he played in Glens Falls, and if he hadn't sold the team there would have been at least 8 Rats home games in Glens Falls.

 

[CJNewman]

The beat writer for the Phantoms tweeted that there was going to be some kind of announcement about the negotiations they have been having with teams in the next few weeks. I know there was a contract offer out there to a team and preliminary talks with another but who knows.

 

[Nightsquad]

First they have played only one game in Philly so far this year not two yet. Also a lot of teams play one game in their NHL affiliate to boost attendance and I see no mention of Rochester who played an outdoor game and one in Buffalo boosting their attendance. Plus I would love to know the Albany media source you got your info about Albany fans helping Glens Falls attendance because other than Pete Dougherty of the Times Union no one covers the Devils and as a fan who has been to many games between the two I can tell you it's the complete opposite. The Phantom fans used to come down from Glens Falls by the hundreds to Albany to see the games where you might see 20 Devils fans in Glens Falls at most any time they would play. So in conclusion I would love to know your source for your information or are you just making stuff up.

Thought Times Union was the name of the arena in Albany? Troy Record is the paper the covers AHL hockey? My source as you request worked for a firm (I will leave it at that) has already helped an Upstate area get an AHL team. I will say this, the Northeast region in next few years however will see very tough competition for AHL clubs. Fringe markets like Glens Falls, Albany, Binghamton with outdated and smaller arenas will really have to prove their worth. Both AHL and ECHL will see a dramatic shift in next two to three years and have that on pretty good authority. It's no big secret that NYS has a very negative political climate bad for business, taxes. Upstate NY especially is looking very bleak. Unfortunately all the so called "Tech Valley" hype is manufactured hype of Albany area business leaders. I remember reading how the AHL had to slam the door on the Albany River Rats for wanting to rebrand the team Tech Valley River Rats lol.

 

[Cynicaps]

Thought Times Union was the name of the arena in Albany? Troy Record is the paper the covers AHL hockey?

The Record and its sister The Saratogian might give better coverage since they could cover both teams but how does that play into the equation. The TU's name is only on the former Knick/Pepsi because they paid for the naming rights.

The Northeast region in next few years however will see very tough competition for AHL clubs. Fringe markets like Glens Falls, Albany, Binghamton with outdated and smaller arenas will really have to prove their worth. Both AHL and ECHL will see a dramatic shift in next two to three years and have that on pretty good authority. It's no big secret that NYS has a very negative political climate bad for business, taxes.

All this makes the re-entry into Utica even more head scratching. Of course, critical thinking doesn't exist at the AHL at all.

Random Idea: Glens Falls gets an ECHL affiliate that hooks up with the Habs organization. It's close enough to Montreal that weekend games would be sellouts given the number of fans crossing the border to shop with the bonus of seeing a future Hab or three. It'd help the local economy to some degree though many of said fans would keep driving down the Northway to Colonie Center/Crossgates as many currently do.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

First they have played only one game in Philly so far this year not two yet. Also a lot of teams play one game in their NHL affiliate to boost attendance and I see no mention of Rochester who played an outdoor game and one in Buffalo boosting their attendance. Plus I would love to know the Albany media source you got your info about Albany fans helping Glens Falls attendance because other than Pete Dougherty of the Times Union no one covers the Devils and as a fan who has been to many games between the two I can tell you it's the complete opposite. The Phantom fans used to come down from Glens Falls by the hundreds to Albany to see the games where you might see 20 Devils fans in Glens Falls at most any time they would play. So in conclusion I would love to know your source for your information or are you just making stuff up.

I do not consider two or three teams a lot of teams. Here's who doesn't that I know of off the top of my head:

Chicago
Milwaukee
Iowa
Grand Rapids
OKC
Texas
Abbotsford
Manchester
Portland
Syracuse
Binghamton
WBS
St. Johns
Hamilton
Lake Erie
Norfolk
Hershey
Hartford
San Antonio
Rockford
Toronto