Who is the best goal scorer of all time and who are the top 10 all time in order?

norrisnick

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Apr 14, 2005
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Well, this person isn't looking for raw stats. It's easy to sort by goals and call it, so if ability is just "one piece", it must be the vast majority of it or else there isn't much to discuss, right?

So, at what point does longevity stop being a factor? If Ovechkin quit five years ago...would people wonder if he's a top 5 (or whatever) goal scorer because he isn't out there traipsing around still?

Jagr, who you sort of backdoor brought up, played 24 seasons in the NHL...I don't think longevity is the question. He's 4th all time in goals as a result...not a lot of "Jagr" entries on these lists though.

Proper talent evaluation is always the way to go. I'm not saying take a guy that played 12 games before film or anything...but I don't see a lot of Mike Gartner answers either for some reason...
At the same ages that Lemieux was sipping drinks around the links during his sabbatical (32-34), Ovechkin won 3 goal scoring titles. Being the best in the league at the skill being discussed is of importance. Call it compiling if you want, but if you're compiling goal scoring titles I think that's ok.
 

Michael Farkas

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Jun 28, 2006
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Oh, I see, it's Mario stuff. It's not about "compiling" or not, there isn't anything new or interesting in Ovechkin's game now versus 2019. So, it doesn't matter to me for the question at hand.

Assuming he comes out with more of the same this year, it won't change my opinion because I've already seen this player to the fullest extent. Whether he quits tomorrow, has a 0 goal season, has a 42 goal season, breaks the record, ties the record, falls one short, whatever it is, has no bearing any longer for me unless a trivia question comes up about where he falls on the goals list.

Like I said, he could have quit five years ago too, I'd still have him way, way up on the list in terms of goal scorers as it pertains the thread. Hell, he could have quit a good ten years ago and I don't think it would have changed all that much. I got it.

If there is some positive adaptability to the game, then that's interesting...but otherwise, meh...it's like Connor McDavid having a six point night against Kingston in the last regular season of his draft year...like, "you didn't already make up your mind about him already? You don't already have all your notes? It's a game against Kingston that altered something...?"
 

Midnight Judges

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Um... no.

I am saying that Lemieux at his best was better than Ovechkin at his best.

Do you rank Ray Whitney higher than Pavel Bure?

Ovechkin's peak goal scoring season adjusts higher than any season by Mario Lemieux:


Ovechkin has the highest raw total and the highest adjusted total of his era. Lemieux has neither.

Anyway, if you remove the 2011 and 2012 seasons, Ovechkin's GPG (the metric you cited) increases. You realize that, right?

In other words, by that measure he's held in higher regard if he quits for those seasons rather than leading his team in points and goals.
 
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Midnight Judges

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I see adjusted stats are back to being important today and not fantasy.

Wonder why

Because accounting for environmental differences is logical and adjusted stats do a reasonable job of it.

Otherwise you end up with bizarre outcomes, such as the illustrious Dennis Maruk having a way higher peak than Sidney Crosby.
 
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WarriorofTime

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Because accounting for environmental differences is logical and adjusted stats do a reasonable job of it.

Otherwise you end up with bizarre outcomes, such as the illustrious Dennis Maruk having a way higher peak than Sidney Crosby.
Nothing you've said is inconsistent, the snarkiness directed towards you is unwarranted. PPG is a tool to assess performance just not an end all, when looked side by side with performance, be all for defining value.. specifically with players consistently on the shelf. Adjusting will always have merit because of drastically different scoring environment, which is just stats not fantasy.
 

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