Who is the 15th best player so far in the 21st Century?
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Crow
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Keith should have been 10th or so. He was just generally an unbelievable playoff and international performer in addition to 2 norris, conn smythe, championships, gold medals.
Jack Spider
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Price was the best player in the league for a stretch. At his peak he's in the top. Looked like a robot in net and had a large influence on the next generation of goalie. Couldn't say so on most of the guys voted in already, but I'll admit they had better careers.
Teemu
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I think I'll take the greatest defensive forward in the history of the sport
Lundqvist here, by far the best goalie.
Vezina voting: 1,2,3,3,3,4,5,6,6,6
CP 1,3,4,5,7
PR 1,2,2,3,7
Lundqvist blows both out of the water.
Vezina voting: 1,2,3,3,3,4,5,6,6,6
great career, but his numbers are on par with a guy like Pekka Rinne. If they switched teams Rinne would be the more popular goalie. Nothing against Carey, but hes naturally a little overrated in this city.
CP 1,3,4,5,7
PR 1,2,2,3,7
Lundqvist blows both out of the water.
Felidae
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I'm a pretty big Karlsson fan. Most offensively talented defenseman since Coffey.
But I think he was added too early. Yes, incredibly high peak. But his career is noticeably shorter compared to many players not on the list. Add on to that his injury history and a 5 year dry spell of what should have still been his prime not competing for any awards.. I think his addition was quite premature.
I would have put Luongo and Lundqvist ahead of him.
But I think he was added too early. Yes, incredibly high peak. But his career is noticeably shorter compared to many players not on the list. Add on to that his injury history and a 5 year dry spell of what should have still been his prime not competing for any awards.. I think his addition was quite premature.
I would have put Luongo and Lundqvist ahead of him.
Jack Spider
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HabzSauce
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Lundqvist vs Price is as close of a debate as you can get. Neither blow either out of the water. Both best in the biz by a mile despite no cups.
Video Nasty
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Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
Just talking about goalies here. I tend to give a premium to career value over peak in player rankings. Luongo was a total workhorse and had great save percentage over his career. Peak it's probably Price, Quick, Lundqvist, Vasilevskiy, in that order.
Overall, I'd rank the remaining goalies:
Luongo
Lundqvist
Price
Quick
Fleury
Vasilevskiy
Overall, I'd rank the remaining goalies:
Luongo
Lundqvist
Price
Quick
Fleury
Vasilevskiy
DitchMarner
TheGlitchintheSwitch
I'd probably take Vasi over Fleury for career already. I don't know... I'm not a big Fleury fan. To me he feels like an above average goalie with a likeable personality and a really long career and some team accomplishments. Vasilevskiy was definitely one of the best goalies in the League for a while; I'm not sure Fleury really was.
Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
I agree Fleury is not an A-list goalie. He's a bit compiler-ish in regards to wins. However, his career value edges out Vasilevskiy as Fleury has about twice as many wins. Also, Fleury held the fort down in at least one Cup victory (2017 with the Penguins) and won the Vezina in his final year with the Golden Knights (20-21). He was arguably at least in the conversation for best goalie at those points.
Karlsson is very far ahead of where he deserves to be listed.
Video Nasty
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One guy has played 10 seasons, the other guy has played 20. If Fleury only just edges him out right now, which I disagree with, he’s going to be far behind when it’s all said and done.
Vasilevskiy has a Vezina and an additional 3 finalist nominations, and another top 5. He has a Conn Smythe. He led in Wins five seasons in a row. He has legitimate individual and team based playoff success. He was excellent and dependable in all three SCF runs.
Fleury wasn’t a Vezina finalist until a shortened year when he won at age 36. He also never even scraped an All-Star nod until that shortened season. He has another top 4 finish. He’s more famous to me for losing his job on numerous occasions and wondering why his smile dazzles everyone into thinking he’s a Hall of Famer.
Fleury has never been in the conversation for best goalie.
Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
Fleury has won more games than Roy, Terry Sawchuk, and Jacques Plante for number two all-time. Your first paragraph is right, though. I'm not even a Fleury fan. I'm just big on career value. That to me is a better indication of 'best' than peak. Prime is close to being as important for me. In a way, prime is already built into career value.
Video Nasty
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Fleury had access to games not ending in ties for 1000 games of his career. He wouldn’t be second all-time otherwise. It’s impressive that he was just okay enough to trick teams into playing him for as many games as he has and there is value to netminding for 20 years, but the number of wins he has isn’t that big of a deal.
Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
Fair enough about the rule change, but it doesn't matter on the issue of Vasilevskiy vs. him for career value. I know I'm in the minority on this way of judging, but that's how I see it. He wouldn't have as much career value if he hadn't also won a Vezina and been a really good goalie en route to a Cup. He has been a solid B+ goalie for a long time.
Voight
#winning
Not really. Price was nominated for the Vezina twice. Lundqvist five times.
Because he played with two of the top three players of his era for most of his career.....
HabzSauce
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Hippasus
1,9,45,165,495,1287,
But hasn't Pittsburgh pretty much been a top-heavy team for the duration of Fleury's tenure there? Crosby, Malkin, Letang, Jordan Staal for a while, and a revolving cast of others. I think Fleury definitely deserves credit for those wins as a major goaltending stat.
Tasty Biscuits
with fancy sauce
Ya, Sid and Geno had no one to help them get over the hump...but then they had Fleury...who wasn't great and needed Sid and Gino to hero get over the hump.
I think you can easily argue the opposite too. Price on Nashville during that time period almost assuredly has better numbers, and most people like to separate the performance from the forces surrounding it, not the other away around. Since the majority of this board and elsewhere like to just look at raw stats/results as an end-ball bel-all, Price in NSH likely has better career #s and stats. and is viewed as incredible, even though all the side-ling was going be a different force. The nerve!
