rypper
21-12-05 it's finally over.
- Dec 22, 2006
- 16,269
- 24,910
The number i posted is basic, the season Kuzmenko was traded 23/24 Pettersson at the end of the year had 89 points. I wasn't breaking down games w/ Kuzmenko versus without.
Who is Better Pettersson or Miller
- Thread starter Mo Kasmond
- Start date
The number i posted is basic, the season Kuzmenko was traded 23/24 Pettersson at the end of the year had 89 points. I wasn't breaking down games w/ Kuzmenko versus without.
I hope the last few games were a nice preview for the trade Pettersson crowd. Enjoy your JT Miller-led offence. Not so easy for him without Hughes feeding him points.
Btw, it has been 21 games since JT Miller scored a goal against a goaltender.
Btw, it has been 21 games since JT Miller scored a goal against a goaltender.
theguardianII
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2020
- 3,154
- 2,067
This is different than every other year except last year how?
The leadership in the room has a rift so leadership can't fix it. Is it up to Hughes to decide who wins the battle?
Under Tocchet's dump and pray neither is needed just a better PP and the best players don't always make the best PP. Tocchet' system right now dumbs down skill to a lower common denominator, the big need is fore check speed, hitting and hitting and crowding the net and hitting.
Miler might as well not be playing right now, this is the team without Miller, Pettersson or Hughes and they almost won two in a row if not for being a back to back.
The progress imagined is just as much the regression of other teams in the division last year and a far superior defence that got decimated in summer.
The core is stale.
There is a rift in the leadership in the room.
There is a lack for depth for defence and skilled forwards but then they don't rely on high skill.
The excuse used are ridiculous, Joshua out so an excuse, Demko out but more than adequately replaced but use as an excuse, an injury to Boeser, one player, used as an excuse, Hronek only used as an excuse, Hughes for 3 games by design his impact IS more but should not be an excuse. The combination of Pettersson, Hughes and Hronek is a more valid excuse but then it is management that didn't create enough depth to compensate so a created or self inflicted excuse.
Utah, Colorado, Montreal, Washington, Minnesota, Vegas all have had injuries to key players, Utah the worst when just about all their starting defence was out.
Billy Kvcmu
Registered User
That's all fine, how old was Miller then? How old is Pettersson now? Up until 26 miller wasnt close to the player pettersson is. Miller had 6 playoffs before being a ppg alongside petey. Miller has been better than a ppg 1/8 times in the playoffs, was close last year.
Miller was a 3rd liner/ swiss army knife until playing with petey isnt really an argument in Miller's favour.
Nick Lang
Registered User
- May 14, 2015
- 2,061
- 1,307
Yeah. This is key. The people making arguments for Miller in the last page don't really understand the game or statistics that well. In Miller's first 443 games he had 325 points. In Petterson's 441 games he has 440 points. Miller was also a tertiary third line player for his first 5 years. Absolutely no doubt Petterson is the player to choose moving forward. Maybe if Miller was on his game and we were contenders the choice would be harder... but he's not, we're not, and it isn't.
100% take the better point producer with 5 more prime years and way higher projections.
I think the biggest thing with Petersson is his age. While I love Miller the player if its gotten to this point I think you have to keep the younger player.
Perhaps in any Miller deal the biggest piece you get back is Petersson being happy & playing like a franchise centre
Perhaps in any Miller deal the biggest piece you get back is Petersson being happy & playing like a franchise centre
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
The bigger question is whether J.T. Miller is better than Bo Horvat?
Horvat with two goals, including the OT winner tonight against the Bruins. Now up to 12 goals and 17 assists on the season. He's younger than Miller, and was the team captain.
Allvin may have backed the wrong horse. I guess the only real way this might balance out will be what the Canucks fetch for Miller in a trade.
Horvat with two goals, including the OT winner tonight against the Bruins. Now up to 12 goals and 17 assists on the season. He's younger than Miller, and was the team captain.
Allvin may have backed the wrong horse. I guess the only real way this might balance out will be what the Canucks fetch for Miller in a trade.
Miller outscored him by 35 points last year
BenningHurtsMySoul
Unfair Huggy Bear
It was a tough call because Horvat was playing at an unsustainable level (which he still has never matched) and Miller had just come off a big season. The whole team was a disaster and it could easily be explained away that Miller's antics were just out of pure frustration...but I kind of wish they had taken the whole sequence of events leading up to the Delia net smash more seriously.
lawrence
Registered User
- May 19, 2012
- 15,879
- 7,700
pointless question since Horvat has been traded. Bo horvat last year posted 68points and currently on pace for 61. Which are not great numbers for a guy who is getting 8.5. Granted you did say hes young, but by only 2 years. Regardless of attitude bad or good on Jt miller, jt miller is a superior offensive player over Horvat, and I've been a horvat since ever since. Wrong or right horse, we did eventually match the asking price his agent was asking for, but than they decided to go 8.5. The rest is history. I think 7.8 millino is way to high for a guy like Horvat at this point, let alone, 8.5.
JT is the better offensive player - just more well-rounded and dynamic. If Miller is your #1 C, I think you can still win the Cup. If Horvat is your #1C, I don't think you can. There is, however, no question that the we could have locked up Horvat for same or less than what we gave Miller before we signed Miller.
Say what you will about Horvat, he's been a very consistent goal scorer. In terms of whether we backed the right horse it always came down to winning and which player ages better.
$7.8M AAV for a 28 year old consistent 30+ goal 60+ point C with size who can win faceoffs is pretty fair. That doesn't mean we want to pay him that money but objectively it is fair. Look at the forwards who are making ~$7.5M AAV and can you honestly say Horvat's doesn't belong in that group given his offensive production and the fact that he plays C?
Say what you will about Horvat, he's been a very consistent goal scorer. In terms of whether we backed the right horse it always came down to winning and which player ages better.
$7.8M AAV for a 28 year old consistent 30+ goal 60+ point C with size who can win faceoffs is pretty fair. That doesn't mean we want to pay him that money but objectively it is fair. Look at the forwards who are making ~$7.5M AAV and can you honestly say Horvat's doesn't belong in that group given his offensive production and the fact that he plays C?
PuckMunchkin
Very Nice, Very Evil!
Brookbank
Registered User
- Nov 15, 2022
- 1,294
- 2,564
BrentSopelsHair
Registered User
Isn't the entire reason that we brought in Jake DeBrusk because Pettersson had no one to play with since Kuzmenko, as Boeser (our best winger) has been stapled to Miller's side for the past 4 years?
Ernie
Registered User
- Aug 3, 2004
- 12,822
- 4,113
Both players have been neck and neck in points since JT joined the team.
Pettersson has way better defensive metrics. JT Miller brings more of a physical edge.
Pettersson is in the middle of his prime years, Miller is exiting them.
I'd argue that their contributions have been more or less equal up to this point. Moving forward though and ignoring salaries, you keep Pettersson 10/10 times, assuming he can return to or exceed his previous form.
Pettersson has way better defensive metrics. JT Miller brings more of a physical edge.
Pettersson is in the middle of his prime years, Miller is exiting them.
I'd argue that their contributions have been more or less equal up to this point. Moving forward though and ignoring salaries, you keep Pettersson 10/10 times, assuming he can return to or exceed his previous form.
I still kind of hope this all works out and we can keep both. What I would change would be to relieve JT of some defensive pressures and have him as a play driving W on a 1B line with a defensively responsible C (i.e. a cheaper Lindholm). Or even have him as the perfect W for EP to form a dominant #1 line.
I would also remove the A from both of them for at least the rest of the season. No drama...just play your game and ignore everything else.
I would also remove the A from both of them for at least the rest of the season. No drama...just play your game and ignore everything else.
sting101
Registered User
- Feb 8, 2012
- 15,747
- 17,687
If physical battles didn't exist Pettersson is better... but they do and Miller has and is better based off what they both have proven to date
Faceoffs Cycle Balance/Agility PP Physicality - Miller
Defending Stickhandling Quickness - Pettersson
I would think that compete and consistency should become an advantage for Pettersson being 26.
If he can get a little stronger and negate the huge advantage Miller has in that regard combined with above he is easily better and a 100pt Selke candidate which would make him a top5-10 player.
I think this is what they had hoped when they signed him. So far due to injury immaturity and preparation he unfortunately took a step back instead of forward.
Faceoffs Cycle Balance/Agility PP Physicality - Miller
Defending Stickhandling Quickness - Pettersson
I would think that compete and consistency should become an advantage for Pettersson being 26.
If he can get a little stronger and negate the huge advantage Miller has in that regard combined with above he is easily better and a 100pt Selke candidate which would make him a top5-10 player.
I think this is what they had hoped when they signed him. So far due to injury immaturity and preparation he unfortunately took a step back instead of forward.
Shareefruck
Registered User
It always irks me when physical edge is treated like it's somehow even on the same ballpark of valuable as high end defensive ability.
One is like an extra bonus quality that's nice to have, while the other is about as fundamental as the amount of offense they generate.
If Miller has been as about as good as Pettersson over the years, it's due to other more important qualities besides his physicality and faceoffs, in my opinion.
One is like an extra bonus quality that's nice to have, while the other is about as fundamental as the amount of offense they generate.
If Miller has been as about as good as Pettersson over the years, it's due to other more important qualities besides his physicality and faceoffs, in my opinion.
Last edited:
Ernie
Registered User
- Aug 3, 2004
- 12,822
- 4,113
Physicality is hard to quantify but if you spend any time watching "hard to play against" is valuable, especially in the playoffs.
Physical edge it what allows a player to match up against a McDavid, Mackinnon or Drai.
'High end defensive ability' judged by some random green charts, or HD*#^8llllllD-- stats just leaves you with a player that gets dummied by a wet noodle like RNH
It's a violent game, this ain't baseball.
