Who are your top 10 defenseman next season?

[Panthers Propaganda]

It’s really tough to go top-10 Dmen because are we doing defensive ability, offensive? All arounders probably makes most sense but it’s hard to say depends on how you weight offense vs defense.

1. Makar
2. Hughes
3. Josi
4. Fox
5. Heiskanen
6. Morrissey
7. Forsling
8. Bouchard
9. Dobson
10. Hedman

________
11. Slavin
12. McAvoy

This is who I think are poised to have great years for 2024-2025 some HOM breakout/rebound candidates too: Hamilton, Faber, Dahlin, Toews, Durzi.

 

[Oddbob]

Gotta love HFBoards logic and rankings, Bouchard should be punished and de-ranked due to :

• QB-ing the greatest PP of all time
• Leading his team, as a Top 2 D-man, to the SCF Game 7
• Leading all Playoff defenders in scoring, by double the points of #2 (Heiskanen 16 Points) with 32 Points
  • Forsling, Montour, Ekholm, & Kulak all SCF D-men with 8-13 points total
• Going >1 Point/game in the reg season, finishing 3rd in NHL Season scoring for defensemen

^
None of that is about his potential, it is about his actual results last season as a 24 year-old

But definitely put Dobson, Dahlin, and X up there
I'm sure "if they only played on Edmonton", they'd have >1 points/game seasons, led the Oilers to the finals, and scored >30 points

Yeah, most of the top offensive guys would put up similar numbers playing with McDrai. Same way that Hyman scored 50+ because of them instead of 20 or so less without them.

 

[CBJx614]

My personal homer rose colored glasses view is that if Werenski can stay healthy as well as his team, he's got a chance to have a career year and sneak into that top 10/15 list. Hell if that powerplay was even middle of the league last year he has a career year.

Those are big if's though.

 

[LemonSauceD]

My top 20

1. Makar (ice tilting, pure dominant defenseman in all 3 zones, elite skating ability)
2. Hughes (best playmaking dman in the game, elite skating ability, offensively dominant)
3. McAvoy (All situations elite #1 dman with very few flaws if at all)
4. Fox (best two way defenseman in the game, most cerebral)

5. Heiskanen
6. Josi
7. Morrissey
8. Dahlin
9. Slavin
10. Bouchard
11. Theodore
12. Andersson
13. Hedman
14. Dobson
15. Forsling
16. Werenski
17. Karlsson
18. Hamilton
19. Ekholm
20. Toews

IMO I think Makar, Hughes, McAvoy and Fox are in a league of their own compared to the rest.

 

[Space umpire]

From evidence I have gathered internally, I believe Morgan Rielly should be top 3 on the list.

Zach Hyman went from a 21 goal scoring 41 point player to more than double each of those.

54 goals and 83 points.

If we use a similar standard of measurement moving Rielly from T.O. to Edmonton, he should be capable of 40 goals and 144 points and that's being conservative.

Those are Art Ross numbers!

Bouchard who?

The problem with this is that Rielly is a poor 3rd pairing level defensively.
Toronto keeps searching for players to play alongside him and then blaming the guy they bring in when it doesn’t work.

 

[Namikaze Minato]

The problem with this is that Rielly is a poor 3rd pairing level defensively.
Toronto keeps searching for players to play alongside him and then blaming the guy they bring in when it doesn’t work.

 

[Space umpire]

It’s not really irrelevant Rielly has blown through partners every year or so. Those guys are good when they get there but are said to suck by the time they leave.
The one constant … Rielly as their partner.
He is awful.
Look at the replays of the 2 goals that cost the Leafs game 7 this past season. Both are directly Rielly’s fault.

I’m a regular reader, sometimes poster on the Leafs board.
At various times last years fans blamed Matthews and/or Nylander and they often blame Tavares and Marner.
While I have issue with Matthews hanging out near the points hunting easy steals and not being down low where a center belongs. He is however productive even if it leads to more goals against.
I also take note that JT isn’t the player he was 4 years ago (but that’s age not lazy or lack of effort.
How is it that Rielly who doesn’t make the effort escapes blame?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

It’s not really irrelevant Rielly has blown through partners every year or so. Those guys are good when they get there but are said to suck by the time they leave.
The one constant … Rielly as their partner.
He is awful.
Look at the replays of the 2 goals that cost the Leafs game 7 this past season. Both are directly Rielly’s fault.

I’m a regular reader, sometimes poster on the Leafs board.
At various times last years fans blamed Matthews and/or Nylander and they often blame Tavares and Marner.
While I have issue with Matthews hanging out near the points hunting easy steals and not being down low where a center belongs. He is however productive even if it leads to more goals against.
I also take note that JT isn’t the player he was 4 years ago (but that’s age not lazy or lack of effort.
How is it that Rielly who doesn’t make the effort escapes blame?

 

[Moist ReadOnly]

If Dougie Hamilton recovered well from last year and plays 70+, he should end up in the top-10

Hell log ~22minutes while producing at or near PPG

 

[Raistlin]

Gotta love HFBoards logic and rankings, Bouchard should be punished and de-ranked due to :

• QB-ing the greatest PP of all time
• Leading his team, as a Top 2 D-man, to the SCF Game 7
• Leading all Playoff defenders in scoring, by double the points of #2 (Heiskanen 16 Points) with 32 Points
  • Forsling, Montour, Ekholm, & Kulak all SCF D-men with 8-13 points total
• Going >1 Point/game in the reg season, finishing 3rd in NHL Season scoring for defensemen

^
None of that is about his potential, it is about his actual results last season as a 24 year-old

But definitely put Dobson, Dahlin, and X up there
I'm sure "if they only played on Edmonton", they'd have >1 points/game seasons, led the Oilers to the finals, and scored >30 points

- is it the greatest PP of all time because of bouchard though? I would say its because of the three forwards up front that is making 12-13 million a year no? Barrie was put in the same role and the percentages were better in 2023.
- leading his team? is the 3 forwards up front. If you just want to isolate the D, definitely not Nurse/Ceci, but its Ekholm. Bouchard was the third/fourth option.
- please also mention how much the generational player was lapping the rest of the field in the point race also.
- the problem, just like with Hughes in 2022, was his incomplete game. Bouchard's offense is based on his accurate and hard point shot, that is his bread and butter. The others ahead of him are more multi dimensional. He should be around #10, which is incredible of a feat already, and other fans are giving him props. The others ahead of him are just more reliable in all situations and do not need an Ekholm in heavy leverage minutes.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

My top 20

1. Makar (ice tilting, pure dominant defenseman in all 3 zones, elite skating ability)
2. Hughes (best playmaking dman in the game, elite skating ability, offensively dominant)
3. McAvoy (All situations elite #1 dman with very few flaws if at all)
4. Fox (best two way defenseman in the game, most cerebral)

5. Heiskanen
6. Josi
7. Morrissey
8. Dahlin
9. Slavin
10. Bouchard
11. Theodore
12. Andersson
13. Hedman
14. Dobson
15. Forsling
16. Werenski
17. Karlsson
18. Hamilton
19. Ekholm
20. Toews

IMO I think Makar, Hughes, McAvoy and Fox are in a league of their own compared to the rest.

By Andersson I assume you mean Rasmus?

 

[LemonSauceD]

By Andersson I assume you mean Rasmus?

Yes..

 

[sabremike]

You would think people would've learned about badly undervaluing Sabres players after what happened when O'Reilly, Eichel and Sam ended up having off the charts success after getting out of the single worst most dysfunctional organization in hockey but judging by this thread you would be wrong.

 

[BostonBob]

1 - McAvoy
2 to 10 -

 

[The Expert]

People seem to have failed both the eye test and the advanced stats test for Bouchard lmao. He's a great defenseman.

You have to be blind to be using the eye test as a defense for Bouchard... lmao.

 

[NVious]

1.Bouchard
2.Ekholm
3.Nurse
4.Ceci
5.Kulak
6.Desharnais
7.Faber
8.Makar
9.Fox
10.Laine

 

[bucks_oil]

Yeah, most of the top offensive guys would put up similar numbers playing with McDrai. Same way that Hyman scored 50+ because of them instead of 20 or so less without them.

Oddbob... are you sure you double checked your logic?

If most of the "top offensive guys" would put up similar numbers beside McDrai, doesn't that also make Bouchard one of the "top offensive guys"?

 

[Oleksiak]

Oddbob... are you sure you double checked your logic?

If most of the "top offensive guys" would put up similar numbers beside McDrai, doesn't that also make Bouchard one of the "top offensive guys"?

The other players on the list are good enough in their own zone to be legit NHLers though.

 

[bucks_oil]

The other players on the list are good enough in their own zone to be legit NHLers though.

... and yet, at 5v5 somehow he manages to have:

• THE BEST xGF% in the NHL at 63%
• THE SIXTH BEST ACTUAL GF% in the NHL at 61.8%
• THIRD in the NHL for CORSI FOR% at 60%
• SECOND in the NHL for FENWICK FOR% at 60%
• TOP TWENTY (17th) in the NHL for expected GOALS AGAINST with 2.2/60

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats 2023-2024

• And just so you don't say "all McDrai", here are his numbers WITHOUT McDavid, Draisaitl and Ekholm:
  • GF% = 57.14%
  • xGF% = 65.15%
  • SF% = 65.93%

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

So my dude... whatever "sub NHL" defending he is doing, is working to tilt the ice in the right direction.

I'm a goalie, so it pains me to say this, but maybe defending is overrated when you have an elite ability to get the puck up the ice and keep it there.

 

[TheOrangeDesk]

The other players on the list are good enough in their own zone to be legit NHLers though.

The bouchard discussion and posters like oleksiak are exactly why so many people make fun of hfboards.

 

[Oleksiak]

... and yet, at 5v5 somehow he manages to have:

• THE BEST xGF% in the NHL at 63%
• THE SIXTH BEST ACTUAL GF% in the NHL at 61.8%
• THIRD in the NHL for CORSI FOR% at 60%
• SECOND in the NHL for FENWICK FOR% at 60%
• TOP TWENTY (17th) in the NHL for expected GOALS AGAINST with 2.2/60

NHL Player Statistics -Advanced Stats 2023-2024

• And just so you don't say "all McDrai", here are his numbers WITHOUT McDavid, Draisaitl and Ekholm:
  • GF% = 57.14%
  • xGF% = 65.15%
  • SF% = 65.93%

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

So my dude... whatever "sub NHL" defending he is doing, is working to tilt the ice in the right direction.

I'm a goalie, so it pains me to say this, but maybe defending is overrated when you have an elite ability to get the puck up the ice and keep it there.

I'll trust the eye test over garbage made up by analytics dweebs who have zero understanding of the sport.

 

[Machinehead]

I'll trust the eye test over garbage made up by analytics dweebs who have zero understanding of the sport.

So you'll trust the zero times you've watched Bouchard in iso? That's bold.

 

[Oddbob]

Oddbob... are you sure you double checked your logic?

If most of the "top offensive guys" would put up similar numbers beside McDrai, doesn't that also make Bouchard one of the "top offensive guys"?

I never said anything negative about Bouchard, but if he was in Buffalo for example, he doesn't have a 82 pt season and 32 pts in the playoffs. I like Bouchard but pretending he did what he did this season without the major help of McDrai is silly. My comments were more about Dahlin being expected to have better than 59 pts when his team lead at forward had 59 pts and then it went downhill from there. A defender leading his team in pts is fairly uncommon at the NHL level.

 

[McVespa99]

Wow not biased at all putting the defenseman that just won the norris trophy 5th on the list. Good thing he is in your top 10 at least

He may have included playoffs in his rankings.

 

[eviohh26]

1. Hughes.
2. Makar
3. Josi
4. Fox

Rest dont matter.