Rengorlex
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I dunno if Ovechkin post 2010 has been a top 10 player at any point in time. His style is just min-maxxed for awards.
Who are your 5th -10th best players of all time, today?
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JackSlater
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He's been overrated by some Hart finishes since 2010 but it's a better gauge than mindless pointing to a trophy count at least. But regardless the case for Ovechkin being a top ten player has to be based on his 2006-2010 period and then being elite (though not really one of the league's best players generally) for a long time outside of that period.
He's been overrated by some Hart finishes since 2010 but it's a better gauge than mindless pointing to a trophy count at least. But regardless the case for Ovechkin being a top ten player has to be based on his 2006-2010 period and then being elite (though not really one of the league's best players generally) for a long time outside of that period.
Neutrinos
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Ovechkin is the Kobe Bryant of hockey
He scored more than anyone else because he shot way, way more than anyone else, but his overall impact/value to his team over the majority of his career hasn't come close to a level that warrants consideration among the top 10 all-time
Does anybody consider Ovechkin to be a generational player?
He has just 1 Art Ross, and while he did lead the league points-per-game 3x, in 2 of those seasons he was only .01 points ahead. Crosby in '08, and then Malkin in '09
In 2010, Ovechkin set his career high in points-per-game with 1.51, which finished 1st in the league ahead of H, Sedin's mark of 1.37
Malkin, Kane, and Kucherov all lead the league by at least .20 during their career years, so shouldn't a generational/top 10 player be able to out-produce Henrik Sedin by more than .14 PPG?
Crosby has seasons where he lead the league by .31, .34, .23
He scored more than anyone else because he shot way, way more than anyone else, but his overall impact/value to his team over the majority of his career hasn't come close to a level that warrants consideration among the top 10 all-time
Does anybody consider Ovechkin to be a generational player?
He has just 1 Art Ross, and while he did lead the league points-per-game 3x, in 2 of those seasons he was only .01 points ahead. Crosby in '08, and then Malkin in '09
In 2010, Ovechkin set his career high in points-per-game with 1.51, which finished 1st in the league ahead of H, Sedin's mark of 1.37
Malkin, Kane, and Kucherov all lead the league by at least .20 during their career years, so shouldn't a generational/top 10 player be able to out-produce Henrik Sedin by more than .14 PPG?
Crosby has seasons where he lead the league by .31, .34, .23
Neutrinos
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At quick glance, it looks like Brodeur has 7 top 5 Hart finishes compared to just 1 for Lidstrom
It's pretty absurd that a player who was never a Hart finalist, or thought of as the league's best player during his career, is now finding his way onto top 10 lists
jigglysquishy
Registered User
This speaks more on the anti defenseman bias amongst voters.
Since Bourque was a finalist in 1990, Pronger winning in 2000 is the only d man to finish top 3.
33 years, 1 top 3 finish.
In the same time frame, a goalie has been a finalist 19 times.
Top 50 NBA players from last 50 years: Kobe Bryant ranks No. 6 | FOX Sports
Nick Wright's countdown of the 50 greatest NBA players of the last 50 years continues, with the Black Mamba landing at No. 6.
www.foxsports.com
Not the greatest comparison to try to make your point.
Your critique of OV post 2010 was reasonable, this post is not.
JackSlater
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It's not a bad comparison in terms of legacy. I don't blame Ovechkin for shooting when the units he played on were all designed for him to shoot, but in particular late career Ovechkin in particular does remind me of late career Bryant. I do think that Ovechkin has a better argument for top ten than does Bryant, though off the top of my head I'd keep Ovechkin out of the top ten.
Bear of Bad News
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Stop posting your off-topic diversion wall of text, @Neutrinos.
Neutrinos
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I saw the first one had been removed, so I re-posted using spoiler tags so it wouldn't be anything unless someone decided to click on it
Why does the length of a post matter if it's hidden from view?
Bear of Bad News
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It took up four pages on (my) large screen (even spoilered), and it's continuing a diversion that's not super relevant. Multiple posters have reported it.
Give us something in two paragraphs or less, please, and then let's end the diversion.
Give us something in two paragraphs or less, please, and then let's end the diversion.
Neutrinos
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Sorry about that...
It was my first time using it, and I just assumed the only thing visible would be the spoiler button itself
Bear of Bad News
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Michael Farkas
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Same reason why Brodeur, Roy, and Plante shouldn't.
Also, for being so "dominant", Hasek wasn't exactly Mr. Playoffs...
Didn't he do really well in the playoffs? His individual playoff numbers look extremely impressive. His team just wasn't very good. He also had an very long and successful career and even won cups eventually though not in his prime and carried his nation to an Olympic gold.
Professor What
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Yeah, that 1999 Sabres team doesn't make it to the Finals without him.
Neutrinos
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Top 50 NBA players from last 50 years: Kobe Bryant ranks No. 6 | FOX Sports
Nick Wright's countdown of the 50 greatest NBA players of the last 50 years continues, with the Black Mamba landing at No. 6.
Not the greatest comparison to try to make your point.
Your critique of OV post 2010 was reasonable, this post is not.
He scored more than anyone else because he shot way, way more than anyone else, but his overall impact/value to his team over the majority of his career hasn't come close to a level that warrants consideration among the top 10 all-time
If you don't think that statement applies to Kobe, you haven't done your homework
Here, you can copy off mine...
Your top 10 all time list, as of the 2022 offseason
Hey everyone, I'd be curious to see who you guys have as your top 10 all time list as of the summer of 2022. Everyone has different things they arbitrarily consider more or less important when crafting there's. Before revealing mine, I'll describe 2 ways my thought process is different from...
It's a good question. Ask my grandfather and he would have said Howie Morenz, Doug Harvey, and Maurice Richard are the top three. I don't think you can compare across the eras so I go with sheer abilily to "pull you out of your seat" based on what I've seen . Players like Orr and Serge Savard innovating while playing peerless defense . Gilbert Perreault or Jean Beliveau moving the puck up center ice at full speed was a thing of beauty. Both were superb skaters and playmakers. Guy Lafleur and Mario Lemieux' ability to completely dominate the offensive zone. Yvan Cournoyer and Pavel Bure's blazing speed. Gretzky's on-ice vision and Mike Bossy's almost miraculous scoring touch. Then there is Ovechkin who in my mind is an absolute force of nature.
JackSlater
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The 1999 Sabres make it to the finals without Hasek provided he is replaced by a good goaltender. That team outscored every other team in Eastern conference play on a per game basis in those playoffs and scored at least two goals every game while maintaining its defensive style. He was great but it's a myth that he carried the team by himself to the finals.
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Yeah no doubt when he won the Hart in 2013 and was the top skater in 2015, he actually sucked for reasons that are somehow only known in the history revision forum, but unbeknownst to the players (who voted him as a Lindsay finalist) and the hockey media and somehow unreflected in the general success that the Capitals have enjoyed with him as the centerpiece.
Michael Farkas
Celebrate 68
Averaging stats may be all right. But averaging stats don't win series.
This will be the main argument for people when they decide that McDavid has passed Crosby on the all time list.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
Not like he can score the goals for them.
One of the 1st round losses he lost in 7 despite a .950/1.62 line.
Let's not act like Roy didn't benefit from playing behind prime Robinson, Chelios, Gainey, Carbonneau
Professor What
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