Who are the greatest All Tools/No Toolbox players of all-time?
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BenchBrawl
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Al Iafrate is probably not the greatest, but he's the first to come to mind.
Does Ovechkin count? How low of a toolbox level can a Top 100 player of all-time really have?
Does Ovechkin count? How low of a toolbox level can a Top 100 player of all-time really have?
Michael Farkas
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Dion Phaneuf would probably be on this list somewhere...because most no hockey sense players don't become much of anything at all...
trentmccleary
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BenchBrawl
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You were a habs fan in the early 00s weren't you
Patrick Poulin, what an old name to remember ahah (on top of your username).I liked both these players btw.
What does Ovechkin even mean? He's having a fantastic career, he's waaaay higher than top 100 of all time. He's the exact opposite of a waste of talent :/
Sean Day could end up on this list. My first thought was Artyukhin, but I don't remember how his hands were.
Big Phil
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Yeah, I had to re-read that one again. Ovechkin certainly does not belong on this list. You definitely want a guy rated as high as him all-time to have a better playoff resume so maybe that could fall into "toolbox" categories, but man, I think you are being picky if you feel Ovechkin of all people deserves to be on this list. With all the skill he has he's used it. His shot, his speed, his effort, etc. Certainly not a guy who has let it go to waste. Only Bobby Hull has led the NHL in goals more seasons. Has a very realistic chance at passing Ray Bourque as the all-time leading player in shots. Along with Phil Esposito is the only guy with over 500 shots in a season. Say what you want, the guy has used his talents to the best of his ability.
I came here to post Mogilny and Kovalev. Both of these guys took shifts off or games off or as we all remember with Mogilny YEARS off, more specifically that weren't contract years. No player that I can think of in NHL history is known better as a guy who seemed to score when he felt like it, in Mogilny.
Another honourable mention is Lindros. Yes, he had ALL the tools. He just missed one thing, and it was the most important, and that was keeping his head up.
tarheelhockey
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BenchBrawl
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About my Ovechkin comment, I thought toolbox was more about lack of hockey IQ, but I was wrong.It's just about using the skills you possess, in which case Ovechkin doesn't make any sense.
I don't think he was a waste of talent, because he had a damned good career, but this is Alexei Kovalev to me. He was incredibly skilled, but didn't have the hockey IQ to get the most out of his skill level.
Killion
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... well, what it means to me and Im quite certain plenty of others is that a player lacks any number of basic skills, crafts & talents, not entirely as if they did they'd likely have never have made it past Junior or wound up being a one-dimensional minor-pro. This could include "Hockey IQ" whereby for example a player like Russ Courtnall who had a semi-full tool-box, great (speed to burn in fact) skater & stickhandler simply couldnt "finish". Would leave his linemates gasping behind Center trying to catch-up to him meanwhile wreaking havoc in deep on the opponents Defenders & giving the Goalie an ulcer thinking "oh my God, second coming of Richard-Hull-Lafleur" and all freaked out.... but then... just.... nothing. Russ fanning on the shot or sending it up into the galleries, having it dribble off his stick having left the defenders & goalie sprawled & badly beat missing a wide open net or whatever. Much ado about nothing. Russ there seemingly bopping around to Billy Idols Dancing With Myself and not a care in the world. Figure skater. Cant Touch This.... Guys got most of the tools but in lacking any finish, and critical thought, dysfunctional. Now he did get it together a bit after being traded to Montreal for John Kordic but as a Leaf, beyond frustrating. He didnt know how to operate his God given talents & tools in sync with his skull. So even a player with riches like that, if the minds not up to it then yeah, you should be riding around in buses between Rochester & Binghampton, Tulsa & Oklahoma City until such time as your brain catches up to your body and that could be never. Stupid is as stupid does and if by 21, 23... your still making Bantam level mistakes? See ya. Your Fired.
DisgruntledGoat*
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MXD
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BenchBrawl
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Theokritos
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I always thought the proverbial missing "toolbox" was strictly a metaphor for the lack of hockey sense, not for a lack of motivation or effort. But I might be wrong.
Killion
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Toolbox half empty or only 3/4's full or whatever... means a players game is incomplete, that they missed out on a whole bunch of curriculum & classes or were asleep at the back of the class when they shouldve been paying attention. This absence of skills could range from being unable to give or receive a check properly/safely; weak skating skills (a deficiency of many goaltenders today), body positioning & angulation on the backcheck along with a whole host of other subtleties & skills once mandatory to just plain stupidity, mental errors such as failing to appreciate that for every action theres a reaction, like if your a Defenceman hitting some guy who's standing top of the crease ass over tea kettle onto your goalie. So yes a metaphor for both lack of all-round skills/crafts & hockey sense, though not applicable for a lack of motivation or effort which is false, as virtually every single NHL player is not lacking in those areas... HOWEVER.... there too, some do apply the same brush whereby a guy like Mogilny could be said to be "not playing with a full toolbox" due to his wildly inconsistent play however I wouldnt say he was playing with a 1/2 empty toolbox because when he wanted to, absolute Superstar.. So a guy like that, issues more mental than lacking in skill sets, ability to access them, put it all together as Mogilny clearly demonstrated he could when the spirit was willing. He'd be a guy Id classify as "playing with a 3/4's full toolbox".... Its a contentious issue with the modern game & players however, as we live in an age of specialization, players in most cases "specialists" in playing various positions & roles, less multi-dimensional than they were even 20yrs ago. The league on the whole younger, careers shorter, sprinters; a game of checkers as opposed to long-shift chess & shorter benches, system of grooming & training until 21, fewer jobs, harder to break in etc...
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BenchBrawl
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Big Phil
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He falls into the category of motivation, much like Mogilny. Depending on one's definition that can be a toolbox, or lack of one.
Yeah it might be. Mogilny definitely had the hockey sense. No question about it. He wasn't just a floating head out there. That's the thing, Mogilny really didn't have a weakness in his game other than what appeared to be motivation. He just so rarely used it.
