Who are the greatest All Tools/No Toolbox players of all-time?

[Michael Farkas]

He just couldn't skate, couldn't protect the puck...his faults were his lack of tools (not hands) in some respects...YouTube All Star is what I called him back in the day haha...

 

[Sens Rule]

Maxim Afinegenov, all speed and stick-handling, **** hockey-iq and hands. Useless at anything else and was a very frustrating player to see or have on your team as you could see him tearing up a whole defence like he was Mario Lemiuex once in a while.

Martin Straka, all speed.

Afinegonov was a very talented guy. Like Kovalev but with speed. But he actually peaked out as over a PPG player on some great Buffalo teams without "peak" ice time.

The guy was awesome to watch at times and was not nearly as great as his skills seemed he could be. But he peaked high. Not elite but very good.

I kinda like discussing players like Afinegenov and Russ Courtnall or Al Iafrate or Kovalev. Pretty good players. Still memorable to talk about 20 or 30 years later.

Are these guys really "failures", or didn't do enough? Are these the guys to discuss as "disappointments"?

Guys that played over a decade and made millions and even had fans of opposing teams remembering them and telling their kids about them in awe of some sick plays decades later? Just because they weren't HHOFers like Sakic or Yzerman or something... they are still not that great? While I guess they are not that "great" but still pretty memorable. I will always remember Russ Courtnall skating like a small little beast and being both quick and fast. A harder combo then is usually understood.

Or say my teams guy Havlat. Havlat was slick and sick and did some crazy stuff. Had injuries and no longevity... and was only sometimes seemingly at his best.

I mean I love me some Hossa amd Alfredsson. But Havlat some games was just as awesome. Or moreso. Just was magical. Even Hawks fans should remember him as their bggest star in the playoffs just as their "dynasty" started. When they went from a crappy team to a winner.

If you talk about players with tools but no tool box. We shouldn't talk about Russ Courtnall. He was an excellent player for a very long time. Just not a HHOFer. Let's talk about Colin Greening. He was faster (apparently) then even young Erik Karlsson. He was stronger then everyone else on the team. He was an ox and a work out freak. And he got a degree from a top college. He was actually quite book smart and just smart. So he was fast and strong and smart. He just wasn't a great hockey player. He was an awesome athlete. He is gonna beat almost any NHLer in sprints or weightlifting or slap shot speed or even on his SATs. He just was only a below average NHL regular. Greening had all the tools.... but he just wasn't a great player. Great players are great players. They just have something special in them. There is no tool box. Robitaille could barely skate well and made the HHOF.

 

[Big Phil]

How about Rob Schremp? Pretty much all he was good for was scoring fancy shootout goals.

Yes. The poster boy if there ever was one. Honestly, I thought the guy was going to be a gem in the NHL. He was thought to be a can't miss guy when he was 15-16. Then struggled a bit to the point where he fell to 25th overall in the draft but then had two very strong seasons in the OHL and I just as well assumed that despite his work ethic and attitude that he was going to thrive in the NHL. Too much skill to ignore in my opinion. Just look at his 2006 OHL season if you don't believe me.

If you watched the game yesterday, I'm sure you saw the wide open net that Ovechkin set up for Backstrom and he blew it. That's how the last few years have been going for Ovechkin in a nutshell. The Capitals power play is also set up specifically for Ovechkin to be the finisher rather than the play-maker whereas in the past, it would run through both Backstrom and Ovechkin equally. This is evidenced by his clear decline in power play assists in comparison to his prime/peak years. From 2005-2011, he was averaging 20-30 assists on the PP per season. Since then, he's averaged ~10 assists per season on the PP. His assist production has also declined at ES but not to the extent of his PP production.

I also fail to understand how a player can possibly lead the league in goals for 6 seasons with such poor hockey sense. Has he just been lucky all these years or is there some sort of secret?

He doesn't. I was just playing the devil's advocate since his name was brought up a while back.

 

[57special]

Ron Flockhart
Perry Turnbull
Eddie Shack
Gilbert Delorme

Eddie Shack had no talent.

Russ Courtnall was fast, but was a lightweight, mediocre, middle six player.

The "magic man" Kent Nilsson was widely considered to be a player that didn't make the most of his gifts.

 

[Killion]

Eddie Shack had no talent.

I wouldnt go that far. He did have a huge Junior year, 47G/50+A's one year, 5-20+ goal seasons over his career, scored a Cup Winning Goal for the Leafs (which he claimed went in off his ass), was a good skater & stickhandler, powerful but... Undisciplined **** Disturber. Figured it was his job. Had he just stuck to playing hockey, guy did have a fairly full toolbox but alas, his mindless antics' resulting in a Seasons Ticket Seat in the Penalty Box year in year out came at quite the price in terms of how he was perceived as a player then as now.

 

[ITM]

Starting from the goal...Rick Dipietro, Trevor Kidd and Justin Pogge come to mind.

On defence...Luke Schenn, Erik Gudbranson and Cam Barker...

On forward...Alexandre Daigle, Radek Bonk, Peter Nedved, and even Keith Primeau. Last one might seem misplaced, but Primeau was supposed to be something special. He had his moments, but none seemed to live up to the player he was advertised to be.

 

[93LEAFS]

Starting from the goal...Rick Dipietro, Trevor Kidd and Justin Pogge come to mind.

On defence...Luke Schenn, Erik Gudbranson and Cam Barker...

On forward...Alexandre Daigle, Radek Bonk, Peter Nedved, and even Keith Primeau. Last one might seem misplaced, but Primeau was supposed to be something special. He had his moments, but none seemed to live up to the player he was advertised to be.

The defenders are busts or disappointments but I'd say they lacked tools. Schenn had no shot, handled the puck like a grenade and wasn't a great skater.

As for Primeau, outside of Detroit and Philly later on, he played for pretty mediocre teams but had his career destroyed by concussions.

Also, in some cases, these guys wouldn't fit the "no toolbox" criteria. I'd say they had no drive train, at least that was the case on Daigle. Otherwise, I'd nominate someone like Zherdev.

I'd say Kilger should be the leader in this discussion.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Courtnall and others had a purse instead of a toolbox and was bound to drop most their tools pretty often.

 

[overg]

and even Keith Primeau. Last one might seem misplaced, but Primeau was supposed to be something special. He had his moments, but none seemed to live up to the player he was advertised to be.

I was just weighing throwing Primeau out there myself. He had great size, and was a pretty decent skater. When not under pressure, he could make some plays. . .

but put any semblance of pressure on him when he had the puck, and it was pretty much a guaranteed turnover. There were a few years when I thought his full name was "Keith and the puck jumps off his stick Primeau."

But I'm not sure if he was missing a tool (say, the skill to actually finish a play) or the whole toolbox. He was definitely missing something, but I'm not entirely sure it was the metaphorical "toolbox" at issue.

 

[David Bruce Banner]

Steve Tambellini was a pleasure to watch up until he fell down, whiffed on the puck, passed to no one, shot wide of the net or went offside.

 

[The Panther]

Steve Tambellini was a pleasure to watch up until he fell down, whiffed on the puck, passed to no one, shot wide of the net or went offside.

That sounds very similar to how he 'managed' The Oilers in more recent years.

 

[BM14]

I consider heart and drive to be part of a toolbox.

In saying that, Alexandre Daigle.

Who knows how good he could've been if he had the heart and dedication of a 3rd pairing D who'd block a shot with his chest losing 5-1 in a meaningless game.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Steve Tambellini was a pleasure to watch up until he fell down, whiffed on the puck, passed to no one, shot wide of the net or went offside.

ah the original mason raymond. those guys had one really great tool, namely speed, but lacked most others, like strength on their skates, size, wrists strong enough to get their pretty good shots off under anything but completely optimal circumstances, and, well, shoulders.

fittingly, after raymond got injured in the 2011 finals he was replaced on the second line by steve tambellini's son jeff. great speed, maybe the best wrist shot on the team. but absolutely nothing else.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah that younger Tambellini could really fire the disc...

 

[kmad]

Fedor Fedorov

 

[Cloned]

Former Oilers:

Dan Cleary.

Ethan Moreau.

Chad Kilger.

Pat Falloon.

Jason Bonsignore.

Shawn Belle.

If I really had to pick one it'd be Eric Brewer. Tall, strong, great skating ability, good first pass, decent shot. Just couldn't put it together to be anything more than a good second pairing guy.

 

[MVP of West Hollywd]

Page 3 without a Yakupov shoutout?

 

[gordonhught]

Former Oilers:

Dan Cleary.

Ethan Moreau.

Chad Kilger.

Pat Falloon.

Jason Bonsignore.

Shawn Belle.

If I really had to pick one it'd be Eric Brewer. Tall, strong, great skating ability, good first pass, decent shot. Just couldn't put it together to be anything more than a good second pairing guy.

you can add Perlini.

 

[crobro]

Bob Murdock
Pierre Larouche
Tom Lysiak
Miles zaharko
Petr Nedhead
Tony Currie
Mirislav Frycar
Ian white

 

[crobro]

Pierre Larouche
Bob Murdock
Doug Smith
Dean Sylvester
Jake Virtanen
Rob Brown
Doug Halward

 

[The Macho King]

you can add Perlini.

Perlini is only a shot.

Jonathan Drouin is pretty emblematic of this. Oozes skill. Good skater. Great stickhandler. Can make some jawdropping passes. While not a rocket, seems to have good placement and solid velocity for a shot.

Something kept him from putting all of that together at the NHL level.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I consider heart and drive to be part of a toolbox.

In saying that, Alexandre Daigle.

Who knows how good he could've been if he had the heart and dedication of a 3rd pairing D who'd block a shot with his chest losing 5-1 in a meaningless game.

Yup.

Regardless of what he did in the league, add Kovalev to that category

 

[brachyrynchos]

Kevin Hatcher?
6'4, 230 lbs had the size, reach and skill but never reached his full potential. Played with some snarl in his early years in Washington but seemed to get softer as he got older. Showed glimpses with a decent shot and good skating yet never seemed to put it all together at the same time and consistently enough. Often it would appear his brain and body weren't in sync and for a defenseman his judgement and reactions to plays were questionable. Should've been better in the era he played in.

 

[Iron Mike Sharpe]

Jim Sandlak is a classic "all the tools but no toolbox" kinda guy. He was a highly touted prospect who went #4 overall and huge things were expected of him, as he had the tools to be a power forward: "He's big! He can hit! He can shoot! He's big!" But he never developed into much beyond a struggling third-liner for the Canucks. After the embarrassment of trading Cam Neely, the Canucks held onto him way too long, hoping he'd develop into another Neely. But he never hit as much as he could have, he looked lost most of the time and his booming slapshot missed the net far more often than not.

During the 80s, the Canucks drafted a succession of defencemen in the first round, all of whom were projected for first pairing spots, all supposedly potential stars: Rick Lanz, Garth Butcher, Michel Petit and JJ Daigneault. All of them had solid junior pedigree and were ranked high by Central Scouting and The Hockey News, but none of them reached that potential. Lanz actually made it to a top pairing role for a few seasons and was given the PP quarterback role, but it always looked like he was punching above his weight, and pretty much disappeared as a presence after being dealt to the Leafs. Butcher was awful in his first couple of seasons but was kept on the team for his toughness - he eventually did okay and accepted his role as #4-5 stay at home type. Michel Petit never really found his identity and struggled his whole career, and Daigneault later accepted a role as a bottom pairing guy for the Habs and other teams, which extended his career. But watching all of these guys together on the Canucks blueline during their darkest years was like watching the Ice Follies.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

Kevin Hatcher?
6'4, 230 lbs had the size, reach and skill but never reached his full potential. Played with some snarl in his early years in Washington but seemed to get softer as he got older. Showed glimpses with a decent shot and good skating yet never seemed to put it all together at the same time and consistently enough. Often it would appear his brain and body weren't in sync and for a defenseman his judgement and reactions to plays were questionable. Should've been better in the era he played in.

kevin hatcher is interesting insofar as if you combined him with the guy he was traded for in his peak, mark tinordi, you'd have a probable hall of famer. imagine hatcher's shot and offensive skillset with tinordi's brain, defensive ability, and snarl. another example is pierre turgeon's puck skills and kirk muller's versatility, two-way game, and fieriness. or bertuzzi's abilities with trevor linden's clutchness, two-way game, versatility, and calm, level-headedness.

kevin hatcher is also an example of a guy where you combine him with his brother and they're a first ballot hall of famer, no questions asked. the koivus and courtnalls might come close if you added up all the best parts.