2024-25 Roster Thread #1: The Beginninging

[Ghosts Beer]

He's 25, and he's only had 26 NHL games. Who, exactly, is bringing these young kids along? Nobody brought him along to the NHL. They're stagnating at the AHL level, because instead of a few good veteran leaders (6-7 is a perfectly reasonable number for a rebuilding team, as I've said elsewhere), the NHL roster is clogged to the point that there aren't enough opportunities to see whether there's anything more to these guys.

Lycksell was a 6th round pick.

He was under a point per game in the AHL at age 23.

OK, 39 points in 38 AHL games at age 24. Great.

People mocked Gerry Mayhew, what has Lycksell shown that he's anything more than an AHL scorer like Mayhew?

Why are people pretending he's some kind of significant prospect?

If he can beat out someone in the top 9, good for him. I don't see it happening.

And he's useless as a 4th liner. At least let the 4th line be a pain in the ass to play against.

Lycksell has 6 points in 26 career NHL games. Hathaway had 17 points in 82 NHL games last season. Hath can give you the same production on the 4th line while also bringing a completely different and beneficial physical element to the team that Lycksell lacks.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah, let's replace one of the best 4th liners in the league in Hathaway, who sets a great example of hard work and abrasiveness that the team wants for its identity, with f'ing Olle Lycksell, who has shown absolutely nothing in 26 NHL games.

Here's a pro tip: Every team in the league has a bunch of Olle Lycksells in their system. They score in the AHL, they do nothing in the NHL.

Why don't we see if Brian Dobbin and Glen Seabrooke are available?

Yes. Let us do that, because he will provide zero utility to the team when their realistic contention window starts. But the guy they get with the return could be.

Do you want to try and win or not? Hathaway definitely doesn't help the team win now. Trading him can maybe help the team win later. Trading Hathaway is the winning move. Keeping him is the loser move.

This team's obsession with culture and identity has yielded nothing but losing. It will continue to yield nothing but losing. Culture and identity don't bring wins. It's winning that brings culture and identity, and you do that by getting all the talent you can instead of riding a series of declining veterans until they have no value.

 

[Hanover Fist]

We're not saying Hathway is a useless plug, we're saying he won't be useful by the time the team is competitive so keeping him on the roster at the expense of developing some of the prospects is detrimental to the future of this team.

You could say this ad nauseam and some will not hear it. It just like saying Frost should be playing over Thompson and they went straight to it was being said Frost was going to get them the cup.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You could say this ad nauseam and some will not hear it. It just like saying Frost should be playing over Thompson and they went straight to it was being said Frost was going to get them the cup.

As I've seen with the other terrible teams I root for, over time eventually fans slowly realize that if you need to lie this much to defend the team then the team doesn't deserve defending. But it takes a long time for that to sink in. It inevitably does though.

 

[ponder719]

People mocked Gerry Mayhew, what has Lycksell shown that he's anything more than an AHL scorer like Mayhew?

Nothing, because there hasn't been anything resembling an opportunity to do so. That was my entire point.

This franchise doesn't regularly open spots for competition, they fill those spots and challenge the rookies to outperform veterans who are permitted to repeatedly make the kind of mistakes that get the rookies banished to Allentown after a first screw-up.

First, most of these slots should be competitions between two young players, not between a rookie and some guy who was promised 2 million dollars because he was born the same millennium I was.

Second, the value of the opportunity to improve your craft at the NHL level needs to be acknowledged and taken into account. If not, this franchise is, quite frankly, permaf***ed.

Does it have to be Lycksell, specifically? No, he should be part of that competition I'm talking about, but maybe he doesn't win the roster spot. If he loses the roster spot to Barkey, or Luchanko, or Abols, or Rizzo, or Desnoyers, great. Someone seized the brass ring, someone's getting that shot, and is going to have the chance to prove themselves at the next level up. But the Flyer Way is "here, you kids need to be absolutely perfect, or we're going to put your ass back on a bus and you can watch the immobile corpse of St. Nic hobble around the ice for another year," which is a real good way to throttle any sort of development.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Yes. Let us do that, because he will provide zero utility to the team when their realistic contention window starts. But the guy they get with the return could be.

Do you want to try and win or not? Hathaway definitely doesn't help the team win now. Trading him can maybe help the team win later. Trading Hathaway is the winning move. Keeping him is the loser move.

This team's obsession with culture and identity has yielded nothing but losing. It will continue to yield nothing but losing. Culture and identity don't bring wins. It's winning that brings culture and identity, and you do that by getting all the talent you can instead of riding a series of declining veterans until they have no value.

Winning brings culture and identity?

OK, great. Who helps you win more? Hathaway or Olle f'ing Lycksell?

Nothing, because there hasn't been anything resembling an opportunity to do so. That was my entire point.

This franchise doesn't regularly open spots for competition, they fill those spots and challenge the rookies to outperform veterans who are permitted to repeatedly make the kind of mistakes that get the rookies banished to Allentown after a first screw-up.

First, most of these slots should be competitions between two young players, not between a rookie and some guy who was promised 2 million dollars because he was born the same millennium I was.

Second, the value of the opportunity to improve your craft at the NHL level needs to be acknowledged and taken into account. If not, this franchise is, quite frankly, permaf***ed.

Does it have to be Lycksell, specifically? No, he should be part of that competition I'm talking about, but maybe he doesn't win the roster spot. If he loses the roster spot to Barkey, or Luchanko, or Abols, or Rizzo, or Desnoyers, great. Someone seized the brass ring, someone's getting that shot, and is going to have the chance to prove themselves at the next level up. But the Flyer Way is "here, you kids need to be absolutely perfect, or we're going to put your ass back on a bus and you can watch the immobile corpse of St. Nic hobble around the ice for another year," which is a real good way to throttle any sort of development.

He's had 26 NHL games.

If Lycksell beats out someone in the top 9, great. Who is that going to be for this former 6th round pick?

Hathaway can equal Lycksell's 4th line production while offering an entirely different physical and competitive dimension that Lycksell lacks.

So why would you play Lycksell over Hathaway on the 4th line? To make the team easier to play against? I'm sure opponents would love it. I don't.

 

[Hanover Fist]

As I've seen with the other terrible teams I root for, over time eventually fans slowly realize that if you need to lie this much to defend the team then the team doesn't deserve defending. But it takes a long time for that to sink in. It inevitably does though.

It being thrown out there that these vets breed a winning culture but they haven’t won shit in years

 

[deadhead]

He's 25, and he's only had 26 NHL games. Who, exactly, is bringing these young kids along? Nobody brought him along to the NHL. They're stagnating at the AHL level, because instead of a few good veteran leaders (6-7 is a perfectly reasonable number for a rebuilding team, as I've said elsewhere), the NHL roster is clogged to the point that there aren't enough opportunities to see whether there's anything more to these guys.

Who is stagnating?

Wisdom regressed, but not sure if that's injuries or struggling in a more competitive AHL
Desnoyers regressed, but word is he gained too much weight and was sluggish, quicker this camp.
Tuomaala took a step up.
Ginning continued to improve, but the ceiling is obvious.
Avon improved, has filled out his body, but missed a lot of development time before he was signed as a UDFA (which is how one of the fastest players in the CHL went undrafted)
Grans has flatlined, but that's why he was available in the first place
Samson has improved, but still has a long way to go to be NHL material
Lycksell has improved
Attard has improved

In other words, pretty typical of any organization.
Not one is a slam dunk NHL player.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Winning brings culture and identity?

OK, great. Who helps you win more? Hathaway or Olle f'ing Lycksell?


He's had 26 NHL games.

If Lycksell beats out someone in the top 9, great. Who is that going to be for this former 6th round pick?

Hathaway can equal Lycksell's 4th line production while offering an entirely different physical and competitive dimension that Lycksell lacks.

So why would you play Lycksell over Hathaway on the 4th line? To make the team easier to play against? I'm sure opponents would love it. I don't.

Whoever you can draft or acquire via the Hathaway trade that makes the team better, if the team is run with an ounce of competence. That helps you win. Hathaway and Lycksell are not the only two options. You know this. You are presenting this dishonest binary choice on purpose.

If defending the team requires dishonesty, they are not worth defending.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It being thrown out there that these vets breed a winning culture but they haven’t won shit in years

Can't help but notice that their ongoing Culture Quest since Dry Island has seen the team steadily degrade nonstop. Players need to bring more than "culture" and "they try so hard."

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I recall the vast majority on this board labeling the Flyers a bottom-5 team before last season, and they went into Game 82 with a chance to make the playoffs.

 

[deadhead]

They have 18 legitimate NHL players who could start for most teams in the NHL on the current roster, you couldn't say that for most of the decade since 2011-12. Zamula and Brink are probably the most marginal in that group, but both would be claimed if cut.

The problem on the roster is no longer depth but quality, they need 1-2 top 6 centers, a top 4 LHD and the goalies are ???

But it's doubful that any of the "blocked" players are top 6/top 4.

If they add a top 6 LHD, then Zamula, Andrae, McDonald will still be competing for 3LHD
When Bonk comes up next season, they'll have to figure out how to move Risto unless Drysdale totally collapses.

When Luchanko comes up, probably next season, Laughton will have to be moved out to make room (if they were to trade Frost, it would be in a package for a young, top 6 center in any case).

If Barkey, Bump et al are good enough to crack the top 9, then guys like Lycksell, Tuomaala et al will be pushed aside.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Huh, what? Where do you get that?
Very few 3rd line guys put up 30+ ES points.

ES scoring by median forward:
48th: 48 (TK 51, Tippett 45, Farabee 43)
144th: 33 (Frost 29, Couts 28, Laughton 25)
240th: 23 (Foerster 23, Atkinson 22, Poehling 21,)
336th: 13 (Brink 18, Cates 15, Hathaway 14)

Where do I get what? Laughton put up 43 and 39 total points the last 2 years. Didn't mention ES scoring at all. Total points trump ES. Last I checked.

How many 3rd line LW have matched or eclipsed what Laughton put up. So he is more than an overpaid 4th liner like you said.

That's unfair to Lycksell who has produced at the AHL level.

Now whether he's the next Marody remains to be seen (talented forward with subpar skating who is a good AHL scorer but can't hack it at the next level).

Right now Lycksell is competing with Brink and Eklind for a roster spot.
If they decide Cates should move back to center, then he's competing with Laughton and Eklind.

Stop with this shit. Him along with your boy Abols has no shot and are not competing for anything at the NHL level. He didnt produce in his Euro league and he will not produce here. My bad late bloomer.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Flyers have depth. They're going to play hard and play the right way.

They lack high-end talent, but they'll be in the playoff hunt IF they get adequate goaltending.

Goaltending is going to be the biggest factor.

 

[blackjackmulligan]

The Flyers have depth. They're going to play hard and play the right way.

They lack high-end talent, but they'll be in the playoff hunt IF they get adequate goaltending.

Goaltending is going to be the biggest factor.

What exactly does this mean? There way isnt the winning way.

Trade GH, get an asset. Then acquire Reeves make the Leafs give you another asset. Win- win. Flyers get to keep the culture while getting picks. Easy peasy.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

What exactly does this mean? There way isnt the winning way.

Trade GH, get an asset. Then acquire Reeves make the Leafs give you another asset. Win- win. Flyers get to keep the culture while getting picks. Easy peasy.

Their way IS the winning way. That's why they've outperformed expectations.

As their talent improves, their record will improve. As it is, they were in the playoff hunt for all 82 games last season when most expected them to be a bottom-5 team in the league.

Why trade Hathaway for a mid-round pick that isn't going to amount to anything, when he sets the whole tone for the team as far as work ethic, leadership, and being hard to play against? He's a great example for the younger players and helps make the team competitive. That's the environment you want your youth to be around. He's far more valuable to the team than a mediocre draft pick "asset."

 

[Beef Invictus]

I recall the vast majority on this board labeling the Flyers a bottom-5 team before last season, and they went into Game 82 with a chance to make the playoffs.

*citation non-existent*

 

[Beef Invictus]

Their way IS the winning way. That's why they've outperformed expectations.

As their talent improves, their record will improve. As it is, they were in the playoff hunt for all 82 games last season when most expected them to be a bottom-5 team in the league.

Why trade Hathaway for a mid-round pick that isn't going to amount to anything, when he sets the whole tone for the team as far as work ethic, leadership, and being hard to play against? He's a great example for the younger players and helps make the team competitive. That's the environment you want your youth to be around. He's far more valuable to the team than a mediocre draft pick "asset."

The winning way! So winningy they won fewer games than the Sabres, who are held up as a specter of doom.

Hard to win when your culture club misses the playoffs year after year.

 

[Cody Webster]

Really hell bent on Garrett Hathaway...what a time to be alive

 

[blackjackmulligan]

Their way IS the winning way. That's why they've outperformed expectations.

As their talent improves, their record will improve. As it is, they were in the playoff hunt for all 82 games last season when most expected them to be a bottom-5 team in the league.

Why trade Hathaway for a mid-round pick that isn't going to amount to anything, when he sets the whole tone for the team as far as work ethic, leadership, and being hard to play against? He's a great example for the younger players and helps make the team competitive. That's the environment you want your youth to be around. He's far more valuable to the team than a mediocre draft pick "asset."

The Flyers way is a winning way? That I must say is a new one. Or we have a different definition of winning.

They were in a playoff hunt because many other teams faltered. I have much better expectations than a playoff hunt. I am not interested in that. I want long term success. Build a winner nto tow the middle of road like they are doing yet again.

If GH is setting the tone for the whole team then you have much bigger issues. There is zero need to have him under contract for 3 years. You want a guy like that they get 1 year deals for less than he makes. Winning makes and having a good team you hard to play against. Not GH. Again if GH is so valuable you have bigger issues. Take GH off this team and they are no worse.

More picks you have better chance to find a good player. Can also use those extra picks for other trades or what not. Also if GH is so valuable wouldn't he get more than a mid rd pick?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Nothing says "winning way" like a style that, in the last 17 years, has missed the playoffs or been knocked out in the first round 14 times.

Seems like a losing style, actually.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

why do you guys bother..

 

[prototypical4thliner]

The Flyers have depth. They're going to play hard and play the right way.

They lack high-end talent, but they'll be in the playoff hunt IF they get adequate goaltending.

Goaltending is going to be the biggest factor.

Being blunt. Playoff hunt with a caveat isn’t all it’s cracked up to be. The same reason you have to frame it with that caveat is why they really don’t have a route to the crown.

They have one true blue chip in Michkov. They need a 1C and 1D as well. How do we get those?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Who needs them! Culture is the same thing.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

The Flyers way is a winning way? That I must say is a new one. Or we have a different definition of winning.

They were in a playoff hunt because many other teams faltered. I have much better expectations than a playoff hunt. I am not interested in that. I want long term success. Build a winner nto tow the middle of road like they are doing yet again.

If GH is setting the tone for the whole team then you have much bigger issues. There is zero need to have him under contract for 3 years. You want a guy like that they get 1 year deals for less than he makes. Winning makes and having a good team you hard to play against. Not GH. Again if GH is so valuable you have bigger issues. Take GH off this team and they are no worse.

More picks you have better chance to find a good player. Can also use those extra picks for other trades or what not. Also if GH is so valuable wouldn't he get more than a mid rd pick?

You had better expectations than 87 points last season? I think Vegas had them at 75.5, and the board certainly had them pegged as a bottom-feeder.

They exceeded expectations, even after losing their #1 goalie in January to a sexual assault charge.