Whitecloud hit on Knies | Knies did not return to the game.

[Yepthatsme]

That's it, move the goal posts

You are the one that blamed Knies for skating up ice while carrying the puck 'hunched forward'

That's how you f***ing skate forward buddy

He had his head down and looked up too late

Had nothing to do with being hunched forward

I moved the goalposts by asking you to look at videos yourself? I don’t think you understand that term. If this is just a case of you not understanding and it helps, here’s the NHL rules on the matter.

48.1 Illegal Check to the Head – A hit resulting in contact with an opponent’s head where the head was the main point of contact and such contact to the head was avoidable is not permitted.

From that screenshot would you say that head contact was avoidable and Whitecloud did something malicious to change that? You failed to answer the last question but I’ll ask again in case you just missed the last one.

Edit: sub-clause 2 of determining if a hit to the head is illegal:

Whether the opponent put himself in a vulnerable position by assuming a posture that made head contact on an otherwise full body check unavoidable.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

I know I sound callous but Knies put himself in a very vulnerable position.

So did Nurse. Still resulted in 5 and a game plus an additional 5 games. Leafs fans know not to expect anything from Parros on this hit.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

It definitely is.

That would be your opinion and mine is he threw a pretty solid hit and it wasn't dirty. Refs also didn't see it as a Reaves type hit and didn't penalize him as such.

View attachment 933508
On contact, Knies' head moves first and independently from his body. No matter what, this is a penalty.

Absolute beauty. Thanks for the gif.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Here we have two players. One is in a low stance, arms tucked, trying to stop an offensive player. He is doing everything right. The other is skating up the ice with the puck, in a hunched position with his head the most forward point of his body. He is the one making head contact unavoidable.

Skating with your head down in a dangerous position is the problem here, not the hit. Hopefully a physical player like Knies will learn from this and not put himself in bad situations in the future.

Here we have two players. One is in a low stance, arms tucked, trying to stop an offensive player. He is doing everything right. The other is skating up the ice with the puck, in a hunched position with his head the most forward point of his body. He is the one making head contact unavoidable.

Skating with your head down in a dangerous position is the problem here, not the hit. Hopefully a physical player like Nurse will learn from this and not put himself in bad situations in the future.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

View attachment 933508
On contact, Knies' head moves first and independently from his body. No matter what, this is a penalty.

The mental gymnastics some people in this thread are doing trying to justify this hit are amazing to me. LDS is a real thing (Leafs derangement syndrome).

 

[dirtydanglez]

beauty. just tough luck for knies

 

[Yepthatsme]

View attachment 933511
Here we have two players. One is in a low stance, arms tucked, trying to stop an offensive player. He is doing everything right. The other is skating up the ice with the puck, in a hunched position with his head the most forward point of his body. He is the one making head contact unavoidable.

Skating with your head down in a dangerous position is the problem here, not the hit. Hopefully a physical player like Nurse will learn from this and not put himself in bad situations in the future.

I don’t think you actually want to have a fair discussion over this, but here’s a better angle of the Nurse hit next to the Knies one. I think even the most biased fan can see a big difference between the stances. Nurse is in a position where head contact is avoidable, but Reaves misses the body and mostly contacts head. Knies is in a position where head contact isn’t avoidable, and Whitecloud catches head as he finsishes through the body. Not even remotely relatable hits.

Jealous of wherever you are getting your pictures from though. My grainy screen grabs are nothing in comparison.

 

[DearDiary]

Knies should know better than to skate hunched over and then lowering himself right before contact. The most you could argue is that Whitecloud had time to realize how vulnerable Knies was.

 

[geebster]

View attachment 933508
On contact, Knies' head moves first and independently from his body. No matter what, this is a penalty.

That's not the rule though. It has to be main point to contact AND avoidable. Avoidable has 3 different considerations. I posted a longform response in this thread going through each one but overall it's not avoidable head contact unless you are super charitable about it and say Whiteclouds body moving up into the hit was a body extension specifically done to target/"pick" the head. I wish it was against the rules but it isn't.

 

[2014nyr]

That's it, move the goal posts

You are the one that blamed Knies for skating up ice while carrying the puck 'hunched forward'

That's how you f***ing skate forward

He had his head down and looked up too late

Had nothing to do with being hunched forward

if a player carries it through the neutral zone with their head down...they should expect to get their doors blown off. the hit was square through the center of his body...you can't skate head first into a hit and complain about your head getting hit. you have to expect that, or worse, to be the result if you carry through the neutral zone with your head down. if you get casual with respecting that threat, eventually there's a reminder.

if people want to watch players skate around staring at their feet without any concerns of being yardsaled, they created roller hockey for that.

 

[1989]

View attachment 933508
On contact, Knies' head moves first and independently from his body. No matter what, this is a penalty.

The things this clip's angle clarifies perfectly is that Whitecloud did not leave his feet and that his arm was textbook tucked in the entire way, as well as the hit being entirely north-south - as is, there is no clipping or picking of the head but clearly a hit through to the body where the head is.

By this metric I would not expect any suspension based on Knies' body position because by the rules of the NHL as this is allowable head contact.

Whether one likes the hit or not is subjective but I just don't see how it is decried as illegal.

 

[f7ben]

Beautiful hit , exactly what we need more of in the league. If the millionaire whiners on the ice don’t want to get hit they should pick a non contact game or learn how not to put themselves in vulnerable positions.

I hate the Knights and I hate the NHL officiating and Dops but this they got right. Should state I also hate the leafs lol

 

[hirawl]

Straight through the core therefore clean. Unfortunately sometimes the head is also caught with a clean hit.

 

[f7ben]

Straight through the core therefore clean. Unfortunately sometimes the head is also caught with a clean hit.

100%

 

[1989]

Straight through the core therefore clean. Unfortunately sometimes the head is also caught with a clean hit.

I would argue that any hit with head contact can be described as dirty, but it doesn't make it illegal under current NHL rules. Or, for better explanation - dirty or clean is a subjective moral interpretation which is not defined by written rules.

I 100000% have no idea where the people saying there was an elbow to the head are seeing it. Even the still photos show Whitecloud has his elbow tucked prior to any impact.

 

[Peasy]

Feel like its pretty similar to Reaves hit.

Right on that line of good/clean hit. Since Reaves got 5 games plus tossed out of the game he was in, Whitecloud should get at least some games but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Canada4Gold]

Nowhere near as bad as Reaves but Reaves hit was awful and deserved more than he got probably. Those type of hits have nothing to do with hockey, just picking someone head off. Throw the book at whoever does that.

There was clear head contact here and it was violently the first point of contact(partially due to Knies posture with his head down, he needs to know better). However he did have full body contact. I think it's a little bit predatory due to the fact that he's rising into his head as he makes contact. He timed it well enough that his skates stayed on the ice until contact so it's not charging, but IMO it was reckless. Knows Knies is a bit bent over and instead of trying to get only the body he willingly rising into the hit with his shouler at Knies head height. I don't think it's a suspension, but I think 5 and a game would be reasonable. 2 Minutes at worst. I don't think it's clean.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I don't think this is suspension worthy under the current ruleset. I also think that:
1. It should be
2. If a Leafs player committed the same hit there would be a hearing and probable 1-2 game suspension

More than 1-2 guaranteed. That's a min 3 gamer.

 

[All Mod Cons]

I will say though, it is mad how often a Leafs player gets injured, and misses a significant amount of time, without even a 2 min penalty being assessed. Knies has already gone through the same thing with the Bennett incident.

 

[Hobnobs]

Straight through the core. It's a good hit.

 

[D Wakaluk]

Herein lies the problem ..

Are you allowed to destroy someone in a hunched down position?

Yeah, sometimes.

 

[HabsForHire]

You’re right. The Whitecloud one was worse. Left his feet and got all head.

funny, his feet were off the ice after contact

 

[thusk]

no the same thing as read but the moment you jump to make that kind of hit, 100% no doubt than your goal was to hit high ( head) and should had been a major penalty no question about it.

I don't know how you can reverse a call on this one, primary point of contact is the head and the player did everything he could to hit the head...

 

[Warden of the North]

I don't think it's very comparable to Reaves, but it definitely deserves the 5 minute major. He left his feet.

The fact the Leafs ended up on a PK is embarrassing to the league.

 

[hatterson]

The Reeves hit is a dumb comparison because of the from the side nature of the hit that meant Reeves picked Nurses head.

Conversely, on this hit, the direction of contact was basically through center of mass.

The issue here is the upwards launch of the hitter. He crouches low before the hit and then explodes upwards just before the hit.

However, the NHL has repeatedly taken the viewpoint that as long as your skates are still touching the ice at the moment of contact, even if only by a hair, then it doesn’t count as jumping into a hit.

I think that’s a ridiculous approach as it’s fairly easy for a player to lean *into* a hit instead of jumping upwards, and launching upwards dramatically increases the chance of a head injury, but that’s what the NHL has said.

To be clear, I understand that players leaning into a hit won’t eliminate all head contact, and it’s still possible that someone in a position like Knies could take a big hit that has a lot of head contact. My point is that the NHL should be looking to eliminate actions that unnecessarily increase head contact, which is what happened here.