Which team has the brighter future? OTT/DET/MTL/BUF

[Lazytrout]

All 4 rebuilding teams from the Atlantic, which one are you most confident about going forward?

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[Imgoingtowork]

All 4 rebuilding teams from the Atlantic, which one are you most confident about going forward?

 

[TkachukNorris79]

It's funny how long this discussion has been, all teams have been bad since like 2018 with the exception of a couple hot months by the Habs in the covid years when they were gifted playoff opportunities (great playoff run tho).

TBL, FLA, BOS and TOR have been playoff staples while these 4 teams continue to not figure it out.

Gonna use their Top 7 players (4F 3D and 1G) from those periods to compare to what these 4 teams will have over the next 5 or so years.


F1: Kucherov
F2: Point
F3: Stamkos
F4: Cirelli/Killorn/Palat

D1: Hedman
D2: McDonagh
D3: Sergachev

G: Vasilevskiy


F1: Barkov
F2: Tkachuk/Huberdeau
F3: Reinhart
F4: Verhaeghe

D1: Ekblad
D2: Weegar/Montour
D3: Forsling

G: Bobrovsky


F1: Bergeron
F2: Pastrnak
F3: Marchand
F4: Krejci

D1: McAvoy
D2: Chara
D3: Lindholm/Krug

G: Rask/Ullmark/Sway



F1: Matthews
F2: Marner
F3: Tavares
F4: Nylander

D1: Reilly
D2: Muzzin/Barrie
D3: Holl/Liljegren?

G: Andersen/Samsonov

Now for the Atlantic failures....


F1: Stützle
F2: Tkachuk
F3: Batherson
F4: Norris/Pinto/Greig

D1: Sanderson
D2: Chabot
D3: Zub/Yakemchuk

G: Ullmark


F1: Thompson
F2: Cozens
F3: Benson
F4: Quinn/Pererka

D1: Dahlin
D2: Power
D3: Byram/Samuelsson

G: Levi


F1: Larkin
F2: Raymond
F3: DeBrincat
F4: Danielson/Kasper

D1: Seider
D2: Edvinsson
D3: Pellikka?

G: Cossa


F1: Demidov
F2: Slavkovsky
F3: Caufield
F4: Suzuki

D1: Hutson
D2: Guhle
D3: Lindholm/Reinbacher

G: Primeau

Apologies if I missed some blatant ones. Capfriendly made this stuff a lot easier. Obviously these will loom very different even a year from now due to trades, signings, drafts and even value changes.

So based off of those groups, I would say that Buffalo and Ottawa have the biggest star power. Ottawa is by far the least deep, but I'd say Stützle/Tkachuk likely ends up as the best forward duo out of the group, if they're not already.

Best defence undoubtedly goes to Buffalo for now, but all 4 teams have multiple D men 21 and younger so that will change a lot.

I can't believe I'm saying these words but Ottawa undoubtedly has the best goalie right now. If Ullmark is only here one year, Ottawa has by far the worst goalies and I'd even go as far as saying overall group because of the weakness.

The biggest factor how successful these teams will be is coaching. I guess I'd give the edge to Lalonde right now but all of the coaching staffs leave a little to be desired, interested to see which one is best.

All this to say.... We all still suck but Go Sens Go

 

[Bouboumaster]

Habs for sure

Our prospect bank is stacked and we're going to get another top 5 picks next year

We should be able to compete in two years

 

[Xirik]

Its definitely Buffalo but they always find ways to fail.

 

[KevSkillz4]

MTL, much more balanced.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

Maybe Habs on paper but curious to see what Ullmark does w Ottawa .

Habs for sure

Our prospect bank is stacked and we're going to get another top 5 picks next year

We should be able to compete in two years

Could say the same for most of the teams above

 

[Canadienna]

I think the Habs group has the most potential, but is further from realizing that potential than the others.

I also completely disagree that all these teams are in the same stage. Montreal's rebuild started the second Marc Bergevin got fired and not a moment sooner.

DET, OTT and BUF have been at this a while.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I think the Habs group has the most potential, but is further from realizing that potential than the others.

I also completely disagree that all these teams are in the same stage. Montreal's rebuild started the second Marc Bergevin got fired and not a moment sooner.

DET, OTT and BUF have been at this a while.

So during Bergys reign the Habs were always in it ?

 

[Canadienna]

So during Bergys reign the Habs were always in it ?

No, but neither were they rebuilding.

Rebuilding teams don't have Carey Price and Shea Weber on them. Rebuilding teams don't spend to the cap and keep vets at trade deadlines.

Rebuilding teams don't go on a run to the cup final.

Once Price/Weber retired and Bergy left, the Habs sold off all their vets, accumulated 1sts and started the rebuild.

 

[Xirik]

The Senators don't have a 2nd line center

The Wings don't have a 2nd line center

The Habs Maybe have a 2nd line center but Dach is made out of glass

Buffalo is the only team with legit top two centers.

 

[Lazytrout]

The Senators don't have a 2nd line center

The Wings don't have a 2nd line center

The Habs Maybe have a 2nd line center but Dach is made out of glass

Buffalo is the only team with legit top two centers.

Buffalo does have the more promising team to me, at least on paper, but it's hard to vote for them cause they're buffalo.

If Dach can't stay healthy then Hage could be the guy but it's too early to say, I wouldn't completely write off Beck either but again, too soon.

 

[Hisch13r]

I like Buffalo's pieces the best for sure. Just a matter of if the management is good enough at actually putting things together to make it work. I think the Wings D will be pretty good. A top 3 of Seider, Edvinsson, ASP is nice but the forwards are still severely lacking high end talent in the long term. Sens solid but not out of this world young core as well a lacking prospect pool and have to give up one of their next 2 1sts. Maybe a playoff team because of Ullmark but work to be done for a real contender. I don't think either of them match up to the Sabres pieces. Habs are the ones that could. Like Buffalo's better now but Montreal's got some good stuff and still actively rebuilding rather than trying to compete like the others.

 

[The Abusement Park]

The Senators don't have a 2nd line center

The Wings don't have a 2nd line center

The Habs Maybe have a 2nd line center but Dach is made out of glass

Buffalo is the only team with legit top two centers.

I mean Pinto looks every bit of a potential 2C next year. Norris while made of glass has also showed a 2C level.

 

[Xirik]

I mean Pinto looks every bit of a potential 2C next year. Norris while made of glass has also showed a 2C level.

Pinto's numbers need to improve to be a 2C next year and I thought there was talk of him being traded but maybe I'm thinking of someone ese. Norris I'll wait and see just like Dach in Montreal. Both seem to be made of glass.

In Today's NHL you need two good centers to make it far in the league. It's to easy now in days for opponents to shut down the teams only good line and force the rest of the team to carry the load.

 

[Mrb1p]

Tough between Buffalo and Montreal

Sens and Detroit close out.

I'm tempted to homer vote but I'll go Sabres.

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean Pinto looks every bit of a potential 2C next year. Norris while made of glass has also showed a 2C level.

If we're counting Pinto then Hage, Beck, Newhook, Danielson and Kasper are all matches. Reality is most likely none of them are.

 

[The Abusement Park]

If we're counting Pinto then Hage, Beck, Newhook, Danielson and Kasper are all matches. Reality is most likely none of them are.

I mean Pinto scored at a 54 point pace this year and had very decent defensive metrics at the NHL level. Newhook isn't a center, Kasper has done okayish at the AHL level, and Danielson and Hage are recent draft picks that aren't NHL assets yet. No clue why those guys would be compared to Pinto at all really.

 

[Mrb1p]

I mean Pinto scored at a 54 point pace this year and had very decent defensive metrics at the NHL level. Newhook isn't a center, Kasper has done okayish at the AHL level, and Danielson and Hage are recent draft picks that aren't NHL assets yet. No clue why those guys would be compared to Pinto at all really.

Newhook scored at a 51 points pace while playing center on the 2nd or 3rd line last year.

Good thing it's also a future poll. The case remains, if you consider someone like Pinto, these guys are considered too. Quantity+quality is on the Habs side and I'd take Danielson bet over Norris+Pinto for future 2C, even if I think Danielson falls just short of an "elite" 2C.

The point was that Pinto isn't a 2c.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Newhook scored at a 51 points pace while playing center on the 2nd or 3rd line last year.

Good thing it's also a future poll. The case remains, if you consider someone like Pinto, these guys are considered too. Quantity+quality is on the Habs side and I'd take Danielson bet over Norris+Pinto for future 2C, even if I think Danielson falls just short of an "elite" 2C.

The point was that Pinto isn't a 2c.

Well the comment I was responding too said that Ottawa didn't have a 2nd line C. I said they do right now.

And Newhook per usual, did most of his damage on the wing not at C.

 

[Mrb1p]

Well the comment I was responding too said that Ottawa didn't have a 2nd line C. I said they do right now.

And Newhook per usual, did most of his damage on the wing not at C.

Nope. He was at his best with Armia and Roy.

 

[bobholly39]

Montreal

People make fun of the Leafs playoff woes - and rightfully so, it is funny - but one thing they absolutey did right is they managed to make the playoffs in year 1 of Matthews. And - they've qualified every year since.

It seriously shouldn't be this hard to make the playoffs. Teams go up and down all the time. Yet for some reason, all of Buffalo, Ottawa and Detroit have floundered and been unable to qualify even though they've all been in a position where they should for a few years now.

Losing leads to losing.

It's possible 3-4 years from now Montreal has the same issue, but I doubt it. They probably don't make playoffs this year, but are probably right back in it next year. Lots of great prospects, good management too. And unlike the other 3 - they aren't saddled with a losing culture with their core.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

On paper Buffalo's talent blows away the pack.

But IMO we're starting to see that Ottawa and Buffalo both have assembled talent with a lack of team identity, whereas Detroit may not "Wow" you as much, but is very clearly assembling a like-minded group of prospects/young players that work their ass off and are a pain in the dick to play against.

Hard to tell on Montreal considering they've got a handful of stud prospects.

 

[Xspyrit]

It should have been Buffalo vs Ottawa but major incompetence got in the way. I don't know enough about internal context for Buffalo to explain it but despite talent, they keep missing the playoffs. For Ottawa, DJ Dorion happened, there would be a lot to say but between Zibanejad and Duchene fiascos, then DeBrincat and Chychrun more recent ones, Tyler Boucher selection as well as many other smaller moves but still terrible ones, Ottawa bled a lot of high end assets which could have made them the cream of the crop. I have never witnessed such a self sabotage than what Dorion did. Staios has a lot of work to do to right the ship and with Green being the head coach and some of the moves he made, I am sceptic that he can be the manager this team needs to finally reach its potential.

All this time lost by Ottawa and Buffalo has given the opportunity for Montreal to gain ground. Detroit as well, but not as much

The Senators don't have a 2nd line center

Josh Norris scored 35 goals in 66 games as a 22 y/o (pace of 43 goals and 68 pts in 82 games). He was not as good defensively that season but the year prior he had top defensive metrics as a 21 y/o rookie facing top competition

I have been extremely harsh on Pierre Dorion all these years but I must admit that Norris injury troubles have really not helped. So that is the problem with Norris, impossible to say if injuries will finally be behind him or not

There's also a guy named Shane Pinto who scored 20 goals in his 21 y/o rookie season and paced for 54 pts in his 2nd season with a rapidly evolving defensive game. Should start getting Selke votes at some point and impressive face-off %

Finally, Ridly Greig played 67% of his shifts at Center last season, in his 21 y/o rookie season. Only paced for 30 pts but he's capable of more, even though defense and pesty-ness are his priorities

Pinto's numbers need to improve to be a 2C next year and I thought there was talk of him being traded but maybe I'm thinking of someone ese.

Yeah there was a brief rumor of Pinto asking for a trade. Staios made it clear it was bullshit and then the extension came up shortly after.

 

[dgibb10]

I like buffalo's goaltending and dcore long term the most, so I'll say them.

I also very much liked Malenstyn and Mcleod as targets to get faster in the bottom 6.

The Senators don't have a 2nd line center

The Wings don't have a 2nd line center

The Habs Maybe have a 2nd line center but Dach is made out of glass

Buffalo is the only team with legit top two centers.

Dach is a PP merchant winger. Pinto/Norris is a MUCH better 2C bet than Dach. So is Newhook tbh.

His only career success has come on the PP, and on Nick Suzuki's wing