Which superstars are likely to have a big drop in production ?

[Phrasing]

No, I actually don't think that's true.

You just seem mad I said a bad about a player on your team, so you take the likely truth out on the person who dared speak about it.

92 points for a defenseman, especially one who isn't a clear generational talent at the position, is not very repeatable. Karlsson, who actually might've been a generational talent at the position went from 101 to 56. I don't think Hughes goes from 92 to 56. His best year seems more sustainable as something he can follow up, given age and the team he plays for, but 92 to something in the 70's (his career average for 82 games is 74.8) seems the most likely guess, and that would be a big drop.

Has nothing to do with “my team”. If you want to go post digging, go for it. You won’t find the evidence that suggests that I make this point simply because he plays for the Canucks. As you were critical of Panarin on “your” team, I’m plenty critical of Canucks.

My point is that you’ve been consistently wrong about Hughes (and there are posts to back this up), your opinions on him aren’t reliable, and I’m saying I disagree with your assessment there will be a big drop. For example, you’ve already declared that Hutson will score in the 70s as a rookie, the same rate as what you think Hughes will. You really think as a rookie he’s going to match Hughes? Are you not going to admit that Hughes had exceeded your expectations or ceilings every time you’ve set a limit? Would this not be another similar scenario?

I’m not afraid to admit when I get things wrong, for example thinking Fox was too slow for the NHL, and now believing he’s in the top tier of defenseman.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Has nothing to do with “my team”. If you want to go post digging, go for it. You won’t find the evidence that suggests that I make this point simply because he plays for the Canucks. As you were critical of Panarin on “your” team, I’m plenty critical of Canucks.

My point is that you’ve been consistently wrong about Hughes (and there are posts to back this up), your opinions on him aren’t reliable, and I’m saying I disagree with your assessment there will be a big drop. For example, you’ve already declared that Hutson will score in the 70s as a rookie, the same rate as what you think Hughes will. You really think as a rookie he’s going to match Hughes? Are you not going to admit that Hughes had exceeded your expectations or ceilings every time you’ve set a limit? Would this not be another similar scenario?

I’m not afraid to admit when I get things wrong, for example thinking Fox was too slow for the NHL, and now believing he’s in the wrong top tier of defenseman.

I don’t think I’ve actually ever said what you claim. You’ve significantly distorted what I’ve claimed. Of course, you won’t actually go and find these things you claim because it’s not something that happened and finding the posts you refer to would reveal the plain words don’t match what you’ve claimed I said about Hughes. What’s next? It got lost in the servers. I’ve heard that one before.

 

[Phrasing]

I don’t think I’ve actually ever said what you claim. You’ve significantly distorted what I’ve claimed. Of course, you won’t actually go and find these things you claim because it’s not something that happened and finding the posts you refer to would reveal the plain words don’t match what you’ve claimed I said about Hughes. What’s next? It got lost in the servers. I’ve heard that one before.

I mean, I just said you declared a rookie Hutson to score the same as Hughes. You refute that?

Rasmus Dahlin vs Quinn Hughes

Two extremely skilled young defensemen who were drafted in the same draft just 6 spots apart. Who is better now and who will become the better player in the future? Since being drafted: Quinn Hughes 2018-19U. of MichiganBig-10325283316-2 2018-19 Vancouver Canucks NHL 5 0 3 3 2...

forums.hfboards.com

Here you were adamant that Dahlin has always been better and will always be better than Hughes, and that it’s not even close.

LD Lane Hutson - Boston University, NCAA (2022, 62nd, MTL)

Hutson is a luxury player. I can see how it works for him, but I can also see how it doesn't. He's really most comparable to Quinn Hughes, but with better defensive play and worse skating. I've stopped comparing him to some other smaller defensemen that have panned out like Spurgeon or...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you call Hutson a better defensive Hughes, but suggested Hutson needs to be babysat, implying that’s an even stronger case for the defensively “inferior” Hughes.

Olympics: - Team USA 2022

I like this. A few things I disagree with. I think Carlson is going to be there in some capacity. Given Jones is already there, hopefully it’s as 3RHD, and Jones can be the 7D. That probably means Pesce is 8D, so either he completely misses out or we are allowed 8 and maybe Jones is 8D with...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you say you can’t win with Hughes style of hockey as it’s not “effective”, even though it’s entertaining.

Olympics: - Team USA 2022

IMO DeBrincat is a lock due to his talent alone, never mind he plays on the same line with Kane. Matt Tkachuk playing on the RW now with Gaudreau makes him a lock. Gaudreau can find chemistry with anyone, M Tkachuk really isn't that good. Debrincat is talented but he's pretty inconsistent...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you said Team USA doesn’t need a player like Hughes.

What level of defenseman is Quinn Hughes currently?

2D, wouldn’t be shocked if he develops into a 1D though. Him and Makar, to an extent Miro, need defensive dmen to be the elite rover types that they are.

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a take where you called his play as lacking hockey sense and puck management. This one is baffling to me having seen Hughes play his entire career and these are among his strengths.

Who will have the better career? Moritz Seider vs Adam Fox?

I'll take the guy who's already a top D in the league, but this poll's not really fair to Seider until he has a chance to prove himself in the NHL.

forums.hfboards.com

In this thread you lumped Hughes in with Karlsson and Barrie and implied he’s unable to control the game when he’s on the ice like Fox. The numbers last season suggest Hughes does exactly that.

How will Dahlin rank offensively among D this season?

No, thats not right. This idea that Makar projects to have a better career is faulty. Even despite Dahlin having some troubles the past few seasons, which I put almost entirely on poor coaching, at each age he's been better than Makar. He's been better than all these young defensemen at each...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you call him terrible defensively and not comparable again to Dahlin.

Is Quinn Hughes overrated?

this isn't based in reality. at all. you're just claiming stuff that isn't even accurate. here's a glimpse of his last year's numbers: Truth By Numbers: Quinn Hughes becoming one of the NHL's best defencemen - Sportsnet.ca but super fun "i told you so" post ? aren't you in bed for his games...

forums.hfboards.com

Here you are again saying he’s among the worst defensively in the entire NHL.

Jack Hughes vs Quinn Hughes

Who’s better? Edit: Overall so like now and future

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you say there’s a tiered difference between Quinn and his brothers.

Most Overrated Drafted Prospects

People get excited about their prospects, and later take a second look. I don't think that is overrating at all.

forums.hfboards.com

This entire thread is riddled with your arguments as to why Hughes is the most overrated prospect.

2018 Draft D-Men

RIP Quinn Hughes I'd place him 8th right before Bouchard.

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you took a number of defenseman before Hughes.

Quinn Hughes vs Erik Brannstrom

Who's the better prospect?

forums.hfboards.com

You declared Brannstrom better than Hughes.

Chabot vs Hughes

As if Canucks’ fans weren’t running a victory lap based on Chabot having a few bad games on what looks to be a historically bad Sens roster for the last few pages? Give me a break. The biggest problem is not even the roster, the defensive structure/coverage is not NHL level. I had my doubts...

forums.hfboards.com

You said Chabot is better and that Hughes isn’t a number 1 D.

2018 Draft D-Men

Sandin with 14 pts in 30 AHL games is pretty impressive

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s you saying a number of defensemen will have Norris votes before Hughes ever will.

 

[GreeningOil]

I mean, I just said you declared a rookie Hutson to score the same as Hughes. You refute that?

Rasmus Dahlin vs Quinn Hughes

Two extremely skilled young defensemen who were drafted in the same draft just 6 spots apart. Who is better now and who will become the better player in the future? Since being drafted: Quinn Hughes 2018-19U. of MichiganBig-10325283316-2 2018-19 Vancouver Canucks NHL 5 0 3 3 2...

forums.hfboards.com

Here you were adamant that Dahlin has always been better and will always be better than Hughes, and that it’s not even close.

LD Lane Hutson - Boston University, NCAA (2022, 62nd, MTL)

Hutson is a luxury player. I can see how it works for him, but I can also see how it doesn't. He's really most comparable to Quinn Hughes, but with better defensive play and worse skating. I've stopped comparing him to some other smaller defensemen that have panned out like Spurgeon or...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you call Hutson a better defensive Hughes, but suggested Hutson needs to be babysat, implying that’s an even stronger case for the defensively “inferior” Hughes.

Olympics: - Team USA 2022

I like this. A few things I disagree with. I think Carlson is going to be there in some capacity. Given Jones is already there, hopefully it’s as 3RHD, and Jones can be the 7D. That probably means Pesce is 8D, so either he completely misses out or we are allowed 8 and maybe Jones is 8D with...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you say you can’t win with Hughes style of hockey as it’s not “effective”, even though it’s entertaining.

Olympics: - Team USA 2022

IMO DeBrincat is a lock due to his talent alone, never mind he plays on the same line with Kane. Matt Tkachuk playing on the RW now with Gaudreau makes him a lock. Gaudreau can find chemistry with anyone, M Tkachuk really isn't that good. Debrincat is talented but he's pretty inconsistent...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you said Team USA doesn’t need a player like Hughes.

What level of defenseman is Quinn Hughes currently?

2D, wouldn’t be shocked if he develops into a 1D though. Him and Makar, to an extent Miro, need defensive dmen to be the elite rover types that they are.

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a take where you called his play as lacking hockey sense and puck management. This one is baffling to me having seen Hughes play his entire career and these are among his strengths.

Who will have the better career? Moritz Seider vs Adam Fox?

I'll take the guy who's already a top D in the league, but this poll's not really fair to Seider until he has a chance to prove himself in the NHL.

forums.hfboards.com

In this thread you lumped Hughes in with Karlsson and Barrie and implied he’s unable to control the game when he’s on the ice like Fox. The numbers last season suggest Hughes does exactly that.

How will Dahlin rank offensively among D this season?

No, thats not right. This idea that Makar projects to have a better career is faulty. Even despite Dahlin having some troubles the past few seasons, which I put almost entirely on poor coaching, at each age he's been better than Makar. He's been better than all these young defensemen at each...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you call him terrible defensively and not comparable again to Dahlin.

Is Quinn Hughes overrated?

this isn't based in reality. at all. you're just claiming stuff that isn't even accurate. here's a glimpse of his last year's numbers: Truth By Numbers: Quinn Hughes becoming one of the NHL's best defencemen - Sportsnet.ca but super fun "i told you so" post ? aren't you in bed for his games...

forums.hfboards.com

Here you are again saying he’s among the worst defensively in the entire NHL.

Jack Hughes vs Quinn Hughes

Who’s better? Edit: Overall so like now and future

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you say there’s a tiered difference between Quinn and his brothers.

Most Overrated Drafted Prospects

People get excited about their prospects, and later take a second look. I don't think that is overrating at all.

forums.hfboards.com

This entire thread is riddled with your arguments as to why Hughes is the most overrated prospect.

2018 Draft D-Men

RIP Quinn Hughes I'd place him 8th right before Bouchard.

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you took a number of defenseman before Hughes.

Quinn Hughes vs Erik Brannstrom

Who's the better prospect?

forums.hfboards.com

You declared Brannstrom better than Hughes.

Chabot vs Hughes

As if Canucks’ fans weren’t running a victory lap based on Chabot having a few bad games on what looks to be a historically bad Sens roster for the last few pages? Give me a break. The biggest problem is not even the roster, the defensive structure/coverage is not NHL level. I had my doubts...

forums.hfboards.com

You said Chabot is better and that Hughes isn’t a number 1 D.

2018 Draft D-Men

Sandin with 14 pts in 30 AHL games is pretty impressive

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s you saying a number of defensemen will have Norris votes before Hughes ever will.

Bruh.

Perhaps take a break from this site if you’re gonna save every conversation you don’t like.

These are largely from years ago too…

 

[Phrasing]

Bruh.

Perhaps take a break from this site if you’re gonna save every conversation you don’t like.

These are largely from years ago too…

I didn’t save these, I found these after a quick search using the advance function. This took 10 minutes. Plus he asked for me to search quite literally…

 

[GreeningOil]

I didn’t save these, I found these after a quick search using the advance function. This took 10 minutes. Plus he asked for me to search quite literally…

That’s fair lol.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

I mean, I just said you declared a rookie Hutson to score the same as Hughes. You refute that?

Rasmus Dahlin vs Quinn Hughes

Two extremely skilled young defensemen who were drafted in the same draft just 6 spots apart. Who is better now and who will become the better player in the future? Since being drafted: Quinn Hughes 2018-19U. of MichiganBig-10325283316-2 2018-19 Vancouver Canucks NHL 5 0 3 3 2...

forums.hfboards.com

Here you were adamant that Dahlin has always been better and will always be better than Hughes, and that it’s not even close.

LD Lane Hutson - Boston University, NCAA (2022, 62nd, MTL)

Hutson is a luxury player. I can see how it works for him, but I can also see how it doesn't. He's really most comparable to Quinn Hughes, but with better defensive play and worse skating. I've stopped comparing him to some other smaller defensemen that have panned out like Spurgeon or...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you call Hutson a better defensive Hughes, but suggested Hutson needs to be babysat, implying that’s an even stronger case for the defensively “inferior” Hughes.

Olympics: - Team USA 2022

I like this. A few things I disagree with. I think Carlson is going to be there in some capacity. Given Jones is already there, hopefully it’s as 3RHD, and Jones can be the 7D. That probably means Pesce is 8D, so either he completely misses out or we are allowed 8 and maybe Jones is 8D with...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you say you can’t win with Hughes style of hockey as it’s not “effective”, even though it’s entertaining.

Olympics: - Team USA 2022

IMO DeBrincat is a lock due to his talent alone, never mind he plays on the same line with Kane. Matt Tkachuk playing on the RW now with Gaudreau makes him a lock. Gaudreau can find chemistry with anyone, M Tkachuk really isn't that good. Debrincat is talented but he's pretty inconsistent...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you said Team USA doesn’t need a player like Hughes.

What level of defenseman is Quinn Hughes currently?

2D, wouldn’t be shocked if he develops into a 1D though. Him and Makar, to an extent Miro, need defensive dmen to be the elite rover types that they are.

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a take where you called his play as lacking hockey sense and puck management. This one is baffling to me having seen Hughes play his entire career and these are among his strengths.

Who will have the better career? Moritz Seider vs Adam Fox?

I'll take the guy who's already a top D in the league, but this poll's not really fair to Seider until he has a chance to prove himself in the NHL.

forums.hfboards.com

In this thread you lumped Hughes in with Karlsson and Barrie and implied he’s unable to control the game when he’s on the ice like Fox. The numbers last season suggest Hughes does exactly that.

How will Dahlin rank offensively among D this season?

No, thats not right. This idea that Makar projects to have a better career is faulty. Even despite Dahlin having some troubles the past few seasons, which I put almost entirely on poor coaching, at each age he's been better than Makar. He's been better than all these young defensemen at each...

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you call him terrible defensively and not comparable again to Dahlin.

Is Quinn Hughes overrated?

this isn't based in reality. at all. you're just claiming stuff that isn't even accurate. here's a glimpse of his last year's numbers: Truth By Numbers: Quinn Hughes becoming one of the NHL's best defencemen - Sportsnet.ca but super fun "i told you so" post ? aren't you in bed for his games...

forums.hfboards.com

Here you are again saying he’s among the worst defensively in the entire NHL.

Jack Hughes vs Quinn Hughes

Who’s better? Edit: Overall so like now and future

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a post where you say there’s a tiered difference between Quinn and his brothers.

Most Overrated Drafted Prospects

People get excited about their prospects, and later take a second look. I don't think that is overrating at all.

forums.hfboards.com

This entire thread is riddled with your arguments as to why Hughes is the most overrated prospect.

2018 Draft D-Men

RIP Quinn Hughes I'd place him 8th right before Bouchard.

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s a thread where you took a number of defenseman before Hughes.

Quinn Hughes vs Erik Brannstrom

Who's the better prospect?

forums.hfboards.com

You declared Brannstrom better than Hughes.

Chabot vs Hughes

As if Canucks’ fans weren’t running a victory lap based on Chabot having a few bad games on what looks to be a historically bad Sens roster for the last few pages? Give me a break. The biggest problem is not even the roster, the defensive structure/coverage is not NHL level. I had my doubts...

forums.hfboards.com

You said Chabot is better and that Hughes isn’t a number 1 D.

2018 Draft D-Men

Sandin with 14 pts in 30 AHL games is pretty impressive

forums.hfboards.com

Here’s you saying a number of defensemen will have Norris votes before Hughes ever will.

To be clear, I don't know what Lane Hutson has to do with this discussion about what you've not liked about my opinions about Quinn Hughes. Like there's literally zero relation. You've invented a fake sub-issue.

You think you are trying to dunk on me about Hughes because he won the Norris last season. In fact, I have always lauded his point production. If you want to find me doubting his offensive ability, please actually post the quote, don't link to some thread where I might've used his name. That doesn't actually tell anything about what I've seen. If you feel I've made disparaging remarks, please showcase exactly what I've said in an articulable way that people can understand as opposed to claiming it's there if others look for it. These are your claims about what I've said, so it's on you to prove it.

I have doubted his defensive ability and what he'd become. I commend his improvement. Don't think I've really said anything disparaging about him (not sure being truthful in the past is disparaging as opposed to just truthful). Good for him. Wasn't upset he won the Norris. Like I said, I commend him for the improvements.

At the same time, I don't see what any of that has to do with his offensive production, which is an area I actually don't think I've ever doubted. Further, I am not even speculating on which players I like and don't like. I'm just being logical of who might've had a career statistical season and is due for a regression. Don't know why you've turned this into a whole sideshow.

 

[Phrasing]

To be clear, I don't know what Lane Hutson has to do with this discussion about what you've not liked about my opinions about Quinn Hughes. Like there's literally zero relation. You've invented a fake sub-issue.

You think you are trying to dunk on me about Hughes because he won the Norris last season. In fact, I have always lauded his point production. If you want to find me doubting his offensive ability, please actually post the quote, don't link to some thread where I might've used his name. That doesn't actually tell anything about what I've seen. If you feel I've made disparaging remarks, please showcase exactly what I've said in an articulable way that people can understand as opposed to claiming it's there if others look for it. These are your claims about what I've said, so it's on you to prove it.

I have doubted his defensive ability and what he'd become. I commend his improvement. Don't think I've really said anything disparaging about him (not sure being truthful in the past is disparaging as opposed to just truthful). Good for him. Wasn't upset he won the Norris. Like I said, I commend him for the improvements.

At the same time, I don't see what any of that has to do with his offensive production, which is an area I actually don't think I've ever doubted. Further, I am not even speculating on which players I like and don't like. I'm just being logical of who might've had a career statistical season and is due for a regression. Don't know why you've turned this into a whole sideshow.

You’re doubting his offensive ability which is the point— that’s why you say he’s in for a big drop in production. I’ve made this point clear. You’re saying he’s going to score in the 70s, which is why Hutson is relevant because you think his offense is going to regress to a level of which you think a rookie is going to accomplish this season. This despite Hughes’ history.

You’ve not been accurate about your projections on Hughes historically, which is the subsequent point. You asked for evidence and I demonstrated (I never limited it to offense), and quite likely is the case here ie your predictions on Hughes. I’ve linked threads and summarized your quotes, I don’t have time to quote your posts. Click the link, they’re there. I also never said you were disparaging (don’t invent things I didn’t say), only that you’ve been wrong about your expectations and outcomes for Hughes. If you’ve historically been wrong about him before multiple times, it’s quite likely you’ll be wrong again.

I’m going to bow out.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

You’re doubting his offensive ability which is the point— that’s why you say he’s in for a big drop in production. I’ve made this point clear. You’re saying he’s going to score in the 70s, which is why Hutson is relevant because you think his offense is going to regress to a level of which you think a rookie is going to accomplish this season. This despite Hughes’ history.

You’ve not been accurate about your projections on Hughes historically, which is the subsequent point. You asked for evidence and I demonstrated (I never limited it to offense), and quite likely is the case here ie your predictions on Hughes. I’ve linked threads and summarized your quotes, I don’t have time to quote your posts. Click the link, they’re there. I also never said you were disparaging (don’t invent things I didn’t say), only that you’ve been wrong about your expectations and outcomes for Hughes. If you’ve historically been wrong about him before multiple times, it’s quite likely you’ll be wrong again.

I’m going to bow out.

So again, you can't actually cite anything. You just link to a bunch of posts that might or might not fit your claims, but you want people to trust you that they do. Either you know they don't and think enough are dumb enough to just take your word or you are just lazy after getting accusatory against someone for literally no reason other than they said a bad about a player on your team.

Quinn Hughes has had exactly one season above 76 points. It is absolutely very unlikely for him to repeat a 92 point season. Sorry if you think that's a controversial thing to say. It's a true thing to say. If he repeats it, he will be beating what is likely. The same applies to the others I've said similar things for, but of course this isn't about questioning the logic, this is about trying to discredit someone who said the truth.

 

[Phrasing]

So again, you can't actually cite anything. You just link to a bunch of posts that might or might not fit your claims, but you want people to trust you that they do. Either you know they don't and think enough are dumb enough to just take your word or you are just lazy after getting accusatory against someone for literally no reason other than they said a bad about a player on your team.

Quinn Hughes has had exactly one season above 76 points. It is absolutely very unlikely for him to repeat a 92 point season. Sorry if you think that's a controversial thing to say. It's a true thing to say. If he repeats it, he will be beating what is likely. The same applies to the others I've said similar things for, but of course this isn't about questioning the logic, this is about trying to discredit someone who said the truth.

The links are the citations… up to you to believe whether or not they prove the point you’ve been wrong about him before. You asked and I gave you the way. Click the links if you want or don’t. I’ve got nothing to hide behind because I put the links for anyone to see. Don’t have trust me or take my word for it; use your mouse and click.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

The obvious - Crosby and Ovy.

Bold prediction, neither will make the all-star game.

They will make it on their names alone.

I think Kucherov will take a step back