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Which Franchise Player Would You Rather Have in Their Prime? (Poll Redo)
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dirtydanglez
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That defenseman is too much of a cheat code to have there. A 50 goal 100 point defenseman is strictly better than a 125 point Selke forward. I voted for the goalie though since a .935 start to finish is enough to win if it maintains in the playoffs. Tough call between the goalie and defenseman though, but a goalie on THAT level is just cheating.
If your goalie is .935 then you're pretty much guaranteed to be doing well as a team.
Vezina winner is easily last. Been there done that. The best goalie is not that much better than average and goalie is too much a product of the team.
I said the Selke winner. You can be Karlsson and have 100 points and win the Norris but your defense sucks. 125 player is good for the art ross and you add Selke level defense? I'm shocked it's not number 1.
I said the Selke winner. You can be Karlsson and have 100 points and win the Norris but your defense sucks. 125 player is good for the art ross and you add Selke level defense? I'm shocked it's not number 1.
I didn't see that because it wasn't in the poll. My bad.
Yea, fair enough, I read the post before the poll so didn’t notice it was left out.
I don't know if I'd change my answer anyway. 125 points is an insane season even without the Selke.
BigBadBruins7708
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biturbo19
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A 125pt Selke winner is the best player in the league, easily. That is a Hart trophy lock.
A 50G defenceman winning the Norris...i think just speaks more to how stupid the Norris voting is these days. It speaks nothing to the actual two-way all-around ability of a defenceman. It's become the "Art Ross for Defencemen" and it's obscenely stupid. Hence Erik Karlsson winning it recently while playing no defence on a bad team that lost most games and allowed him to just screw around and put up points. He was far from the best defenceman that season and i will argue that 'til i die.
And goaltending...it's tempting because a hot goaltender at the right time can absolutely be a ticket to the Cup...but a goalie who ruled the regular season, is no guarantee of anything that'll happen in the playoffs. It's often someone else who gets hot at the right moment. It's too volatile.
A 50G defenceman winning the Norris...i think just speaks more to how stupid the Norris voting is these days. It speaks nothing to the actual two-way all-around ability of a defenceman. It's become the "Art Ross for Defencemen" and it's obscenely stupid. Hence Erik Karlsson winning it recently while playing no defence on a bad team that lost most games and allowed him to just screw around and put up points. He was far from the best defenceman that season and i will argue that 'til i die.
And goaltending...it's tempting because a hot goaltender at the right time can absolutely be a ticket to the Cup...but a goalie who ruled the regular season, is no guarantee of anything that'll happen in the playoffs. It's often someone else who gets hot at the right moment. It's too volatile.
Eternal Leaf
Registered User
People are way overthinking this. Like, it's the goalie, by a lot.
If you could guarantee your goalie is going to be .935, you're giving up basically 2 goals per game. If you're giving up only 2 goals per game, you are going to win a lot of games.
Have we not learned from the PDO heater teams yet?
If you could guarantee your goalie is going to be .935, you're giving up basically 2 goals per game. If you're giving up only 2 goals per game, you are going to win a lot of games.
Have we not learned from the PDO heater teams yet?
If it said a 100 pt d man I would have voted for the selke forward. But a 50 goal 100 pt d man top 5 defensively is bobby orr. I’ll take that!
AlwaysSunnyInDetroit
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is this just for a 1 year peak or lengthy prime? a modern day 50 goal, 100 point norris winner with top 5 defense over multiple seasons is basically a better bobby orr than bobby orr
That's the thing - current day Barkov or peak Kopitar is close enough to this. Maybe +/- 20 points, but I don't see a huge upgrade on the quality of a Barkov/Kopitar. Great players of course, but with options 2 or 3 you're talking Orr++ or Hasek ++. This option is easily last.
Equal or better to Orr. 50 goals throughout his prime? Orr in reality only once went above 37 goals, and never reached 50. I know he did surpass 100 points often, but it was a higher scoring league. The way OP describes this player, I have him equal or better than Orr.
Problem is - I wonder how good the goalie also is. Hasek in his 6 best years (94 to 99) has an average of 929. If you remove 1996 (his worst season in that stretch), it goes up to 932 sv%. And that's in a much lower scoring era (dead puck era years) than today. 935 sv% average in today's prime would be well above and beyond Hasek, so the best goalie of all time by a big gap.
Carey Price won the hart and lindsay and vezina in 2015 with a 933 sv% (also lower scoring year). It would be equivalent to a goalie's prime being superior to that season, each and every year.
Assuming the goalie is also good in playoffs, I think I go goalie first, defenseman second, and forward last.
If there's a risk goalie is a choker come playoffs, than I easily go defender first. But with no mention of playoffs in OP, I'll just assume all 3 players do well enough come playoffs.
TLDR: My rational is:
Player 1 > Barkov/Kopitar. A bit better than them
Player 2 >= Orr. Equal or better than Orr
Player 3 >>> Hasek. Much better than Hasek, or much better than peak Price (every single season).
I go Goalie > Defenseman > Forward
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I hear you but in this scenario the defenseman is also top 5 defensively
A lengthy prime
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was orr good defensively? think the dman is misleading. Obviously not 50 goals but Karlsson just had 100pt season on a horrible team and im sure he was his usual liability in his own zone. 125+pt selke winner is by its own wording doing everything on the ice. Definitely between forward and goalie.
* didnt see the top 5 defensively from the first post.
* didnt see the top 5 defensively from the first post.
biturbo19
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Ahhh, okay...that edit addition changes things a little bit.
I still probably go with the Center, but adding Top-5 defensive play makes the defenceman a lot more enticing because of the bulk minutes they'd be able to dominate. That's pretty much half the game that they'd be tilting the ice and producing prolifically. Whereas even the best of Forwards isn't going to be touching that kind of ice time. Though part of that is just in the energy expenditure because particularly a Center (which i'd assume, because lol if a winger is going to win the Selke these days), is so involved in the game at both ends. I think that involvement still tips it for me, because i still think that scoring profile with a Selke win is basically also a lock for the Hart.
It's been done before though....Gilmour - 92/93....different scoring environment that year though.
The hypothetical Dman has never happened before....unless we are talking about either 50 goals or 100pts, not both. If either or, than, yeah, that's Bobby Orr.
Took a pill in Sbisa
2showToffoliIwascool
The #1 team in the NHL right now has the goalie with the best sv% (0.925)
0.935 is a step above that. Hard to argue that it would make a good team virtually unstoppable. Oilers are 3rd in the league with a .902 starter.
