Which active players are top 20 playoff performers of all-time, or expected to reach that high? How about top 10?

[MadLuke]

23 and 25 games aren't THAT tiny sample sizes, until you think Crosby's 2012 season should be taken with a grain of salt.

Being really bad in english, I am not sure of the meaning here.

But does anyone not take 2011-2013 Crosby numbers with some grain of salt ?

Not many go with some blind faith, the best modern separation peak we ever saw narrative ?

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

His team scoring like 40% more than anyone else in the league when he was on the ice during that stretch, because of the relatively low sample size of it all. 13.33 shooting and 1.06 PDO is not impossible, but it is quite something and most take it with some grain of salt.

elimination games,

He did extremely well in elimination games too, the conservation was about the subset of facing elimination game.

And how many modern playoffs gamed player play in that would not fit under the big game umbrella, considering by how large of a swing in series win expectation the first game of a round can represent.

 

[authentic]

Not sure it makes sense to compare their numbers straight up. Kucherov played many games where scoring was clearly higher and Crosby clearly brought more than just offense than Kucherov.


Crosby's Playoff prime ('07 to '18):

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He is the leading scorer with 185 points and a PPG of 1.16

Next best PPGs in the Top 10:

Malkin - 1.04
Getzlaf - 1.04
Kane - 0.97
Ovechkin - 0.97
Zetterberg - 0.95
Briere 0.95


Kucherov's Playoff prime ('15 to '24):

He is the leading scorer with a 166 points snd a PPG of 1.14

Next best PPGs in the Top 10:

McDavid - 1.58
Draisaitl - 1.46
MacKinnon - 1.28
Rantanen - 1.25
Marchand - 1.09
Crosby - 1.02

This is the best example of why it makes no sense to place Kucherov on Crosby’s level, and this is only considering offense. Some people legitimately have Kucherov as the better offensive player as well.

 

[authentic]

23 and 25 games aren't THAT tiny sample sizes, until you think Crosby's 2012 season should be taken with a grain of salt. There's a narrative in circulation where Crosby is seen as the most clutch and big game player of this generation. When you dig into his numbers in big games(SCF) or elimination games, it doesn't back up the narrative. He's a great playoff performer, regardless. Yet all elimination and Stanley Cup games the Pens won were a result of great overall team performance rather than a carry job by Crosby.

Who are the players from Crosby’s era with drastically better scoring in the finals with any meaningful sort of sample size though?

 

[authentic]

Also, it stands to reason that the players who contributed most to getting to the final game, eliminating the team before the final game, and/or getting ones team to the finals would not have the most exceptional stats once you get there since no player scores every single game, especially in the playoffs, in one of the lowest scoring eras of all-time.

 

[wetcoast]

I'm interested to see what the Oilers duo and Mack/Makar do to add to their resumes this spring.

For a while there I thought I was in another Crosby thread.

 

[TheLegend27]

Who are the players from Crosby’s era with drastically better scoring in the finals with any meaningful sort of sample size though?

Patrick Kane has 7 goals and 9 assists in 18 games, including the game winner. Crosby isn’t a bad SCF performer, his teams were so deep that he didn’t need to preform like a superstar to win.

 

[TheLegend27]

This is the best example of why it makes no sense to place Kucherov on Crosby’s level, and this is only considering offense. Some people legitimately have Kucherov as the better offensive player as well.

I think it’s premature to say Kuch is a better playoff performer than Crosby, it’s more fair to argue that Kucherov’s best regular season compare to Crosby’s best. Kucherov’s 2019 and 2024 point totals are higher than any of Crosby’s seasons using adjusted stats.

Kucherov’s three best season adjusted via hockey-reference:
2024: 140
2019: 128
2023: 108

Crosby:
2007: 122
2010: 117
2014: 116

We’ll see what more Kucherov adds in the playoffs, but he is undeniably building a very good regular season resume.

 

[authentic]

Patrick Kane has 7 goals and 9 assists in 18 games, including the game winner. Crosby isn’t a bad SCF performer, his teams were so deep that he didn’t need to preform like a superstar to win.

I know all about Kane, but is that it?

 

[The Macho King]

I think it’s premature to say Kuch is a better playoff performer than Crosby, it’s more fair to argue that Kucherov’s best regular season compare to Crosby’s best. Kucherov’s 2019 and 2024 point totals are higher than any of Crosby’s seasons using adjusted stats.

Kucherov’s three best season adjusted via hockey-reference:
2024: 140
2019: 128
2023: 108

Crosby:
2007: 122
2010: 117
2014: 116

We’ll see what more Kucherov adds in the playoffs, but he is undeniably building a very good regular season resume.

This presumably isn't counting This season?

 

[authentic]

I think it’s premature to say Kuch is a better playoff performer than Crosby, it’s more fair to argue that Kucherov’s best regular season compare to Crosby’s best. Kucherov’s 2019 and 2024 point totals are higher than any of Crosby’s seasons using adjusted stats.

Kucherov’s three best season adjusted via hockey-reference:
2024: 140
2019: 128
2023: 108

Crosby:
2007: 122
2010: 117
2014: 116

We’ll see what more Kucherov adds in the playoffs, but he is undeniably building a very good regular season resume.

Yeah Kucherov is well on his way to becoming an all-time great, based on his regular season and playoffs resume. Though still would’ve been nice to see what Crosby would’ve done in full seasons from 2010-13. Because of this his full regular seasons will always lag behind in comparisons like this.

 

[The Macho King]

Yeah Kucherov is well on his way to becoming an all-time great, based on his regular season and playoffs resume. Though still would’ve been nice to see what Crosby would’ve done in full seasons from 2010-13. Because of this his full regular seasons will always lag behind in comparisons like this.

That being said Crosby still gets full marks for those years for rating purposes- or at least close to it.

 

[MadLuke]

Patrick Kane has 7 goals and 9 assists in 18 games,

Is 16 points in 18 games drastically better than 20 in 25...

Kane is a blocked shot away to have a very similar ppg.

 

[TheLegend27]

Is 16 points in 18 games drastically better than 20 in 25...

Kane is a blocked shot away to have a very similar ppg.

It’s more about the last second game winner for me. Crosby has the golden goal but nothing like this in the NHL.

 

[The Panther]

It's hard to say with active, moving targets, but I think it's becoming clear that McDavid, Kucherov, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl are going to end up among the top forwards of all time. They are possibly the four best forwards all in their primes, in the League at the same time, in the history of the League.

And all four have been lights-out in the playoffs. It seems quite conceivable to me that all of them could end up with better individual playoff legacies than Crosby. But we have to wait and see.

This isn't a diss on Crosby, who has mostly been "very good" in the playoffs. But in my view, he has rarely been transcendent. (I still think Crosby's best playoff was 2008, when the Pens lost.)

 

[The Panther]

Apropos of nothing in particular, but here are select players' (min. 70 GP) statistics in the playoffs, starting from the 1997 playoffs up to 2024, and averaged out to per / 82 GP and then ranked:

McDavid: 42G + 89A = 131 PTS (+31)
Draisaitl: 45G + 74A = 119 PTS (+11)
MacKinnon: 45G + 62A = 107 PTS (+31)

Kucherov: 30G + 64A = 94 PTS (+21)
Crosby: 32G + 59A = 91 PTS (+8)
Makar: 24G + 67A = 91 PTS (+27)
Point: 48G + 42A = 90 PTS (-2)

Sakic: 35G + 50A = 85 PTS (-3)
Malkin: 31G + 52A = 82 PTS (+3)
Jagr: 27G + 53A = 80 PTS (+10)

Kane: 30G + 49A = 79 PTS (+2)
Getzlaf: 24G + 54A = 78 PTS (+8)
Ovechkin: 39G + 37A = 76 PTS (+2)
St. Louis: 39G + 37A = 76 PTS (+1)
Briere: 35G + 42A= 75 PTS (-7)

Zetterberg: 34G + 38A = 72 PTS (+25)
Marchand: 29G + 43A = 72 PTS (+16)
Toews: 27G + 44A = 71 PTS (+7)

Backstrom: 22G + 45A = 67 PTS (+3)
Stamkos: 32G + 33A = 65 PTS (-7)

Datsyuk: 22G + 37A = 59 PTS (+18)
Thornton: 13G + 45A = 58 PTS (-16)

(Hossa and Pavelski are among the highest volume scorers in this period, but they come out to well below a point per game. I included Datsyuk and Thornton [ouch!] just for interest.)

 

[daver]

Apropos of nothing in particular, but here are select players' (min. 70 GP) statistics in the playoffs, starting from the 1997 playoffs up to 2024, and averaged out to per / 82 GP and then ranked:

McDavid: 42G + 89A = 131 PTS (+31)
Draisaitl: 45G + 74A = 119 PTS (+11)
MacKinnon: 45G + 62A = 107 PTS (+31)

Kucherov: 30G + 64A = 94 PTS (+21)
Crosby: 32G + 59A = 91 PTS (+8)
Makar: 24G + 67A = 91 PTS (+27)
Point: 48G + 42A = 90 PTS (-2)

Sakic: 35G + 50A = 85 PTS (-3)
Malkin: 31G + 52A = 82 PTS (+3)
Jagr: 27G + 53A = 80 PTS (+10)

Kane: 30G + 49A = 79 PTS (+2)
Getzlaf: 24G + 54A = 78 PTS (+8)
Ovechkin: 39G + 37A = 76 PTS (+2)
St. Louis: 39G + 37A = 76 PTS (+1)
Briere: 35G + 42A= 75 PTS (-7)

Zetterberg: 34G + 38A = 72 PTS (+25)
Marchand: 29G + 43A = 72 PTS (+16)
Toews: 27G + 44A = 71 PTS (+7)

Backstrom: 22G + 45A = 67 PTS (+3)
Stamkos: 32G + 33A = 65 PTS (-7)

Datsyuk: 22G + 37A = 59 PTS (+18)
Thornton: 13G + 45A = 58 PTS (-16)

(Hossa and Pavelski are among the highest volume scorers in this period, but they come out to well below a point per game. I included Datsyuk and Thornton [ouch!] just for interest.)

7 of the Top 8 playoff performers being from the current generation should tell you something about the inaccuracy of comparing players from different eras.

 

[daver]

It's hard to say with active, moving targets, but I think it's becoming clear that McDavid, Kucherov, MacKinnon, and Draisaitl are going to end up among the top forwards of all time. They are possibly the four best forwards all in their primes, in the League at the same time, in the history of the League.

And all four have been lights-out in the playoffs. It seems quite conceivable to me that all of them could end up with better individual playoff legacies than Crosby. But we have to wait and see.

This isn't a diss on Crosby, who has mostly been "very good" in the playoffs. But in my view, he has rarely been transcendent. (I still think Crosby's best playoff was 2008, when the Pens lost.)

From '96 onwards, Malkin has the best playoff run with Sakic 2nd, and McDavid 3rd. None of Kucherov, MacKinnon, Makar, and Draisaitl has been "lights out" once you put their performances in statistical context.

They have been playing at a level that is befitting their regular season level of play; they have set themselves apart from the pack but not at a level that reaches generational level. Draisaitl's 2022 performance, and McDavid's, was the product of the Oilers trying to run and gun their way to the Cup; an effort that ultimately won them 8 games.

Sakic, Crosby, Lafleur and Bossy are the bar for this group. They all have better playoff runs than any of these current players plus other impressive Cup winning runs/other deep runs.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

From '96 onwards, Malkin has the best playoff run with Sakic 2nd, and McDavid 3rd. None of Kucherov, MacKinnon, Makar, and Draisaitl has been "lights out" once you put their performances in statistical context.

They have been playing at a level that is befitting their regular season level of play; they have set themselves apart from the pack but not at a level that reaches generational level. Draisaitl's 2022 performance, and McDavid's, was the product of the Oilers trying to run and gun their way to the Cup; an effort that ultimately won them 8 games.

Sakic, Crosby, Lafleur and Bossy are the bar for this group. They all have better playoff runs than any of these current players plus other impressive Cup winning runs/other deep runs.

The goal per game average in the playoffs in 2008-2009 (Crosby’s 31 pts) was the same as it was in 2020-2021 (Kucherov’s 32 pts) and was higher than 2019-2020 (Kucherov’s 34 pts) FYI.

 

[daver]

The goal per game average in the playoffs in 2008-2009 (Crosby’s 31 pts) was the same as it was in 2020-2021 (Kucherov’s 32 pts) and was higher than 2019-2020 (Kucherov’s 34 pts) FYI.View attachment 1011466

Using league GPG to "adjust" points is bad enough. Using playoff GPG as being representative of the scoring environment for the elite scorers in an individual playoff is completely unreasonable and misleading.

Crosby's numbers in 08 and 09 look more impressive vs. his peers.

From 2006 to 2012, here are the best playoff runs (min. 14 games) by points and PPG:

POINTS

Malkin - 36
Crosby - 31
Briere - 30
Toews - 29
Kane - 28
Staal - 28
Crosby - 27
Zetterberg - 27

PPG

Malkin - 1.50
Ovechkin - 1.50
Crosby - 1.35
Toews - 1.32
Briere - 1.30
Hossa - 1.30
Crosby - 1.29


From 2018 to 2024, here are the best playoff runs (min. 14 games) by points and PPG:

POINTS

McDavid - 42
Kucherov - 34
Point - 33
McDavid - 33
Kuznetsov - 32
Kucherov - 32
Draisaitil - 32
Bouchard - 32

PPG

McDavid - 2.06
Draisaitl - 2.00
McDavid - 1.68
MacKinnon - 1.67
Makar - 1.45
Point - 1.43
Rantanen - 1.40
Kucherov - 1.39
Kucherov - 1.36