Which 8 countries should have a spot in a "real" world cup?

[Czechboy]

I really like how they do the women's to be honest.. top 5 nations in one pool and every game is awesome. Next 5 in the other pool and all those games are meaningful and close. Then crossover.

Obviously this would hurt my Czechs as they'd be in the other pool but man would that Big 5 pool be exceptional.

 

[Pasha71]

Let's have a two-week World Cup break each year instead of a meaningless All-Star break. (In an Olympic year, we can have the Olympic tournament instead of a World Cup, but only if NHL and IOC agree on participation. If not, it's still World Cup).

12 teams, 3 groups with 4 teams in each. Round-robin group tournaments. Best 2 teams from each group advance to quarterfinals, and so do 2 best 3rd-place teams.

The other 4 teams play in a relegation round-robin. The two winners (along with all the 8 quarterfinalists) get to keep their World Cup spots for the next year.

The remaining two spots are being determined in the... World Championship later on. That will make the World Championship a bit more interesting and meaningful.

 

[KingJoffrey]

Ten team tournament. Denmark, Germany, Switzerland and Slovakia are all same level tier teams when it's best versus best. Denmark is carried by their NHL'ers. So they do very poorly in Worlds when you compare them to Switzerland or Germany who have a lot of more depth in Europe.

 

[SportsFan94]

Obvious locks:
Canada
USA
Russia
Sweden
Finland
Czech Republic.

Play in tourney for the last 2 spots between Germany, Switzerland, Slovakia, Denmark, Latvia, Norway, France, Belarus.

 

[THE JAM]

Obvious locks:
Canada
USA
Russia
Sweden
Finland
Czech Republic.

Play in tourney for the last 2 spots between Germany, Switzerland, Slovakia, Denmark, Latvia, Norway, France, Belarus.

Obvious locks based on what? Probably ranking individual players, but hockey is a TEAM sport
e g totally NHL-stacked Sweden lost to Belarus - QF in a best-on-best Olympics tournament
e g Germany beat Sweden last Olympics, when none of them had NHL-players

 

[Eye of Ra]

Obvious locks based on what? Probably ranking individual players, but hockey is a TEAM sport
e g totally NHL-stacked Sweden lost to Belarus - QF in a best-on-best Olympics tournament
e g Germany beat Sweden last Olympics, when none of them had NHL-players

probaly? tell me which players in belarus and germany is good enough to take a spot in best possible swedish team. i can only name one: draisaitl

sweden was better than finland in world cup 2016 and og 2014, the 2 last best on best tournaments. with your logic, finland should not be a lock either.

that german team in og 2018 also beat switzerland, canada and took russia to ot. you "forgot" that.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

Denmark is clearly below. There is much less depth.

5 regular NHL players last year. Nielsen is on the end. In Europe, only Philip Larsen stands out.

2 years in a row that no Danish was selected for the draft. It is the 10th nation in the world but very clearly inferior to the other 3.

Currently, Switzerland, Slovakia and Germany are at a very similar level.

The answer to this seems obvious to me:

Top 6 + 2 nations among Switzerland, Slovakia and Germany.

I tend to rank Germany 9th because there is a lack of depth. No German player performs in Europe. The best is probably Marcel Noebels. Brooks Macek, I put aside because he is a naturalized player. Too easy.

There is too big a difference in level or potential between the best (Draisaitl, Stutzle, Seider, Reichel, Peterka, Grubauer, Sturm) and the others.

If we already admit Seider as a very good player for the next few years - who will be the other quality defenders?

Slovakia and Switzerland can present 6 much stronger defenders and more efficient 3rd and 4th lines.
I would tend to say that Draisaitl and Stutzle mask the talent deficiency.

 

[salamandra]

Denmark is clearly below. There is much less depth.

5 regular NHL players last year. Nielsen is on the end. In Europe, only Philip Larsen stands out.

2 years in a row that no Danish was selected for the draft. It is the 10th nation in the world but very clearly inferior to the other 3.

Currently, Switzerland, Slovakia and Germany are at a very similar level.

The answer to this seems obvious to me:

Top 6 + 2 nations among Switzerland, Slovakia and Germany.

I tend to rank Germany 9th because there is a lack of depth. No German player performs in Europe. The best is probably Marcel Noebels. Brooks Macek, I put aside because he is a naturalized player. Too easy.

There is too big a difference in level or potential between the best (Draisaitl, Stutzle, Seider, Reichel, Peterka, Grubauer, Sturm) and the others.

If we already admit Seider as a very good player for the next few years - who will be the other quality defenders?

Slovakia and Switzerland can present 6 much stronger defenders and more efficient 3rd and 4th lines.
I would tend to say that Draisaitl and Stutzle mask the talent deficiency.

Great post. I totally agree

 

[THE JAM]

probaly? tell me which players in belarus and germany is good enough to take a spot in best possible swedish team. i can only name one: draisaitl

sweden was better than finland in world cup 2016 and og 2014, the 2 last best on best tournaments. with your logic, finland should not be a lock either.

that german team in og 2018 also beat switzerland, canada and took russia to ot. you "forgot" that.

FIN is a lock because:
They are ranked #2
They have made World Championship finals the last 2 times - winners 2019 and finalists 2021 / both finals FIN/CAN

 

[THE JAM]

Eye of Ra,

respectfully - it might be a good idea to consult a doctor regarding schizophrenia, most of your posts recently are about swedish teams not even worthy of being in top 6, but now you seem to have a problem admitting the fact that FIN is deservedly higher ranked ...

 

[Eye of Ra]

FIN is a lock because:
They are ranked #2
They have made World Championship finals the last 2 times - winners 2019 and finalists 2021 / both finals FIN/CAN

and sweden is not a lock even thought we won gold in 2017 and 2018?

 

[stastny12]

probaly? tell me which players in belarus and germany is good enough to take a spot in best possible swedish team. i can only name one: draisaitl

Not so long ago, you claimed that if there was a combined roster of Germany and Sweden, the team would consists of only a few Swedish players and that Germany is better than ever. I guess the claim is not valid anymore.

In my opinion, besides Draisaitl, I believe Seider, Stuetzle and mainly Grubaeur are good enough to make the team, as well. On the other hand, Sharangovich would be only one who could make the Olympics roster from Belarus.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Not so long ago, you claimed that if there was a combined roster of Germany and Sweden, the team would consists of only a few Swedish players and that Germany is better than ever. I guess the claim is not valid anymore.

In my opinion, besides Draisaitl, I believe Seider, Stuetzle and mainly Grubaeur are good enough to make the team, as well. On the other hand, Sharangovich would be only one who could make the Olympics roster from Belarus.

ever heard of irony?

over who would seider, stuetzle and sharangovich made it over? grubauer, yes i forgot him. maybe even greiss

 

[stastny12]

over who would seider, stuetzle and sharangovich made it over? grubauer, yes i forgot him. maybe even greiss

They might find their place in the team as depth players. All of them are more than solid reinforcements.

 

[Czechboy]

I believe Seider, Stuetzle and mainly Grubaeur are good enough to make the team, as well

In the next Olympics, 2026, Seider and Stuetzle might be good enough to make any nation.

 

[Jahara]

Just play it with six teams like Canada Cup back in the days and play it every fourth year. Then the minnows have their shot in the Olympics.

The dynamic between the tournaments gets much better if they have their profile. The main issue with the Olympics is that the first games is quite dull and that the best teams do not even get to play each other. With a World Cup playing a round-robin it with be much better.

 

[THE JAM]

and sweden is not a lock even thought we won gold in 2017 and 2018?

Don't act to be stupid, you know how the rankings are calculated:

IIHF World Ranking - Wikipedia


The world ranking is based on the final positions of the last four Men's or Women's IIHF World Championships and last Olympic ice hockey tournament. Points are assigned according to a team's final placement in the World Championship or the Olympic tournament. The world champion receives 1200 points and then a 20-point interval is used between teams. However, a 40-point interval is used between gold and silver, silver and bronze, fourth and fifth, and eighth and ninth. This is used as a bonus for the teams who reach the quarter-finals, the semi-finals, the final and for winning the gold medal.[1]

Place	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	...
Points	1200	1160	1120	1100	1060	1040	1020	1000	960	940	920	900	880	860	840	820	800	780	760	740	...

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Points awarded in the current year are valued at the full amount. Points award in the prior years decline linearly by 25% until the fifth year when they are dropped from the calculation.

 

[wetcoast]

The best-on-best snobs are going to love this

Who am I to deny the national pride of the Korean (south I presume), Australian and Mexican hockey teams and fans their rightful place in any best on best tournament.

After all I've been told national pride trumps pretty much anything else right?

 

[Lambo]

In the next Olympics, 2026, Seider and Stuetzle might be good enough to make any nation.

But it is not safe! They can also fail.

 

[Lambo]

Don't act to be stupid, you know how the rankings are calculated:

IIHF World Ranking - Wikipedia


The world ranking is based on the final positions of the last four Men's or Women's IIHF World Championships and last Olympic ice hockey tournament. Points are assigned according to a team's final placement in the World Championship or the Olympic tournament. The world champion receives 1200 points and then a 20-point interval is used between teams. However, a 40-point interval is used between gold and silver, silver and bronze, fourth and fifth, and eighth and ninth. This is used as a bonus for the teams who reach the quarter-finals, the semi-finals, the final and for winning the gold medal.[1]

Place	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	...
Points	1200	1160	1120	1100	1060	1040	1020	1000	960	940	920	900	880	860	840	820	800	780	760	740	...

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Points awarded in the current year are valued at the full amount. Points award in the prior years decline linearly by 25% until the fifth year when they are dropped from the calculation.

This world ranking list is nonsensical (far too short-term, medals are not recognized enough). This does not reflect the real balance of power in ice hockey. Everyone knows that Germany is no better than Sweden and the Czech Republic. It will stay that way for a very long time.

 

[Maverick41]

I find the discussion and complaining about the world ranking quite amusing, because a lot of people seem to try to derive a meaning from that ranking, it was never intended to hold.
It is not the purpose or intention of that ranking to show which country is the best at hockey overall. Obviously, as many have pointed out, Germany is not better than Sweden or Czech Republic. The gap has gotten a bit smaller, but that's it.
But again, these rankings are not meant to reflect that. They are just meant to show how the countries have performed in IIHF competitions in recent years. So, it is not crazy that an outlier result or two can skew the rankings to a point where Germany is ranked ahead of Sweden for a spell.
This will correct itself soon enough, not to worry.

That is why I don't get it when people get upset about rankings for not reflecting, what they are not intended to reflect.

 

[Eye of Ra]

I find the discussion and complaining about the world ranking quite amusing, because a lot of people seem to try to derive a meaning from that ranking, it was never intended to hold.
It is not the purpose or intention of that ranking to show which country is the best at hockey overall. Obviously, as many have pointed out, Germany is not better than Sweden or Czech Republic. The gap has gotten a bit smaller, but that's it.
But again, these rankings are not meant to reflect that. They are just meant to show how the countries have performed in IIHF competitions in recent years. So, it is not crazy that an outlier result or two can skew the rankings to a point where Germany is ranked ahead of Sweden for a spell.
This will correct itself soon enough, not to worry.

That is why I don't get it when people get upset about rankings for not reflecting, what they are not intended to reflect.

the thing is that sweden won gold in 2017 and 2018. what has germany done in the last 4 years that is better than that?

also wc and best on best should not get mixed. it should be 2 rankings. sweden where top 3 in og 2014 and world cup 2016.

 

[Maverick41]

the thing is that sweden won gold in 2017 and 2018. what has germany done in the last 4 years that is better than that?

also wc and best on best should not get mixed. it should be 2 rankings. sweden where top 3 in og 2014 and world cup 2016.

There is definitely a problem with the rankings "at the moment" due to COVID. There was no World Championship in 2020 so they decided to award all the teams points according to their seed for that tournament (Sweden was the 4th seed and Germany 7th seed). So, 2017 does no longer factor into the ranking.
It's 2018 (both World Championship and Olympics at 25% each), 2019 at 50%, 2020 (the tournament that did not happen) at 75% and 2021 at 100%. And since the latest tournament is weighted more heavily and Germany did very well (4th) while Sweden had a terrible result (9th) you get this anomalous ranking.

	Sweden	Germany
WHC 2018	300	230
Olympics 2018	265	290
WHC 2019	530	520
WHC 2020	825	765
WHC 2021	960	1100
	2880	2905

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Also, there is no mixing up of WC and best on best in this particular ranking, since last Olympics was not best on best. After next Olympics it will be mixed again.
It won't be long before Germany is back to being ranked anywhere from 7 to 10, no need to panic for anybody.

 

[THE JAM]

Germany might be really a top 6-7-8 nation soon

- but Eye of Ra et al seem to forget that Germany did beat Sweden in the last Olympics and Sweden has been pretty awful in the latest two World Championships - that's why Germany is ranked above Sweden atm

 

[Lambo]

Germany might be really a top 6-7-8 nation soon

- but Eye of Ra et al seem to forget that Germany did beat Sweden in the last Olympics and Sweden has been pretty awful in the latest two World Championships - that's why Germany is ranked above Sweden atm

Wtihout NHL-Players Germany has a chance. But with full Best on Best squad, Germany is still No 8 or 9.