Where will Ovechkin rank all time when he retires?

[JackSlater]

I'd say generally 15-5. When he retires he will be overrated for a while, as happens with pretty much all all time greats, but he'll settle from 15-5 (and probably in the middle of that range) for a long time I think. His biggest threat historically will be if Matthews continues plugging along and scores a comparable, or greater, amount of goals.

 

[The Nuge]

By the time McDavid retires it’s clearly going to be the “big 5”, but Ovi’s in that next tier, where I could easily see a case for having him 6th, or not even quite top 10. There’s so many guys like Roy, Lidstrom, Crosby, Bourque, Jagr, Hasek etc who all have a strong case for 6-10. Imo, he deserves to be in that tier since he’s the greatest scorer of all time

 

[wetcoast]

13th

1. Gretzky
2. Howe
3. Orr
4. Lemieux
5. Beliveau
6. Harvey
7. Crosby
8. McDavid
9. Hull
10. Bourque
11. Hasek
12. Jagr
13. Ovechkin

I know that we have been over this territory before but really is the argument for Beliveau and Harvey really past the smell test here over Crosby?

Harvey took till his later 20s to get going at his insane level and Beliveau had some down years.

Heck both crosby and Beliveau have 12 seasons in top 10 scoring but the huge difference being the size of the league and competition.

If one were to take out all non Canadians to make it an apples to apples comparison this is how it would shake out.

But before we do that let's look at their top 10 scoring finishes straight up.


Beliveau 1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,6,8,8,9
Crosby 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,5,6,10,10

Taking out same finishes we end up with this.

Jean 4,8,8,9
Sid 1,5,10,10

Here is Crosby in a Canadian to Canadian apples to apples finishes

05-06 goes from 6 to 3rd

06-07 stays the same

07-08 goes from 29th to 18th with 72 points in 32 games played (just for comparative purposes Jean played in 55 of 70 games in 57-58 and still finishes 8th in scoring that what 18 first line players compared to 90 will do).

08-09 3rd to 1st

09-10 2nd to 1st

10-11 30th to 20th in only 41 GP

11-12 37 points in 22 G

12-13 stays in 3rd place with 56 points in 36 games (48 game season)

13-14 stays in first place

14-15 stays in 3rd place 3 points being the leader with 5 games missed

15-16 3rd to 2nd

16-17 stays in 2nd place

17-18 10th to 5th place

18-19 5th to 2nd

19-20 41 game season

20-21 10th to 6th

21-22 24th to 9th in 69 of 82 GP

22-23 16th to 6th

23-24 12th to 3rd

Now why exactly would you have Crosby behind Jean here?

 

[jigglysquishy]

I know that we have been over this territory before but really is the argument for Beliveau and Harvey really past the smell test here over Crosby?

Harvey took till his later 20s to get going at his insane level and Beliveau had some down years.

Heck both crosby and Beliveau have 12 seasons in top 10 scoring but the huge difference being the size of the league and competition.

If one were to take out all non Canadians to make it an apples to apples comparison this is how it would shake out.

But before we do that let's look at their top 10 scoring finishes straight up.


Beliveau 1,2,2,3,3,3,3,4,6,8,8,9
Crosby 1,1,2,2,3,3,3,3,5,6,10,10

Taking out same finishes we end up with this.

Jean 4,8,8,9
Sid 1,5,10,10

Here is Crosby in a Canadian to Canadian apples to apples finishes

05-06 goes from 6 to 3rd

06-07 stays the same

07-08 goes from 29th to 18th with 72 points in 32 games played (just for comparative purposes Jean played in 55 of 70 games in 57-58 and still finishes 8th in scoring that what 18 first line players compared to 90 will do).

08-09 3rd to 1st

09-10 2nd to 1st

10-11 30th to 20th in only 41 GP

11-12 37 points in 22 G

12-13 stays in 3rd place with 56 points in 36 games (48 game season)

13-14 stays in first place

14-15 stays in 3rd place 3 points being the leader with 5 games missed

15-16 3rd to 2nd

16-17 stays in 2nd place

17-18 10th to 5th place

18-19 5th to 2nd

19-20 41 game season

20-21 10th to 6th

21-22 24th to 9th in 69 of 82 GP

22-23 16th to 6th

23-24 12th to 3rd

Now why exactly would you have Crosby behind Jean here?

I don't think there's a huge gap. Still possible Crosby overtakes him

Beliveau was much better defensively and for much longer.

Beliveau has the clear cut better single season of the two of them. Has the best single playoffs between the two.

I've always loved how Beliveau kept it up so late in his career. 1969 regular season. Going over a PPG in 1971 to win the Cup.

 

[PensPlz]

If he finishes with the most goals record then idk how you don't rank him top 5.

Gretzky, Mario, Orr, Sid, Ovie... In just about really any order. I won't argue much.

But I still picked top 10 just in case he doesn't make it.

 

[wetcoast]

I don't think there's a huge gap. Still possible Crosby overtakes him

Personally I think Crosby overtook Jean several seasons ago

Beliveau was much better defensively and for much longer.

Maybe but even if that's really the case how much does it factor into the equation really?

Beliveau has the clear cut better single season of the two of them. Has the best single playoffs between the two.

Jean also has the lower seasons between the 2 guys and it's not even really close.

furthermore it's hard not to argue that crosby, if ehalthy has at least one season from 10-11 to 12-13 and maybe more as good or better than Beliveau's best seasons.

Playoffs it get a bit trickier but Crosby ahs been the best playoff performer of his generation much like Jean and is there a big difference here really?

I've always loved how Beliveau kept it up so late in his career. 1969 regular season. Going over a PPG in 1971 to win the Cup.

Once again those 2 things are great but Jean is less consistent in elite play compared to Crosby.

Jean also has 4 straight playoffs in the early 60s were he doesn't look so good and it's compounded by the number of elite to very good players on his club.

All in all taking in consideration team, league and individual circumstances it's looking really hard to place Jean over Sid when it's looked at critically and it has been that way for several season now.