Where will Leon Draisaitl rank all-time by the end of his career?

[wetcoast]

Draisaitl's most common linemate at ES in the regular season

18/19 - McDavid, Chaisson
19/20 - McDavid, Kassion, RNH
20/21 - Yamamoto. McDavid (45% SF% w/o McDavid, 55% with McDavid)
21/22 - Yamamoto, RNH, McDavid (45% SF% w/o McDavid, 56% with McDavid)
22/23 - Hyman, McDavid (50% SF% w/o McDavid, 58% with McDavid)
23/24 - McDavid, Hyman, (55% SF% w/o McDavid, 58% with McDavid)

McDavid is easily his most common linemate at ES, and he has had significant time with the other good Oiler forwards such as RNH and Hyman.


Draisaitl's Most common linemate at ES in the playoffs

2021 - McDavid
2022 - McDavid, Hyman (36% SF% w/o McDavid, 49% with McDavid)
2023 - McDavid, Kane (53% SF% w/o McDavid, 54% with McDavid)
2024 - McDavid, Kane, Hyman (43% SF% w/o McDavid, 66% with McDavid)

McDavid is easily his most common linemate at ES, and he has had significant time with the other good Oiler forwards such as Hyman and Kane.


ES scoring in the playoffs
2022 - 22 ES points, 15 point shares with McDavid and Plus 14 w/McDavid,
7 ES points with others and a Minus 6 w/o McDavid

Draisaitl was clearly not effective at ES without McDavid


2023 - 10 ES points, 3 point shares with McDavid and Plus 4 w/McDavid,
7 ES points with others and a Minus 3 w/o McDavid

Draisaitl was again not as effective at ES without McDavid

2024 - 16 ES points, 4 point shares with McDavid and Plus 3 w/McDavid,
12 ES points with others and a Minus 1 w/o McDavid

A bit better but still Draisaitl did not contribute positively at ES with decent linemates and easier matchups


You can easily argue that Draisaitl has never been able to carry a line consistently and/or positively in any regular season or playoffs yet.

You are throwing alot at the wall that doesn't doesn't stick with the eye test or reality.

When McDavid went down and Leon won his Art ross and Hart he rose to the occasion.

When he holds the all time playoff series assist record he isn't just a passenger.

His playoff resume is elite among elites and consistent and the only "blemishes" is when he was playing through injuries like the one sustained this past playoffs.

Oh BTW he is tied for league scoring right now but sure he is a product of Mcdavid just rings hollow an agenda or false narrative.

Edit: he is second 2 points behind Mack who didn't get 2 assists last night with some guy named Makara on the ice.......wait he actually did which is ironic because elite players tend to play with other elite players.....


Leon drives plays as good or better than Jagr so just stop with this he isn't a positive without McDavid Bullshit.

 

[MessierThanThou]

If Malkin wasn't top 100 then Drai has no chance

The unbelievable stupidity of that omission should haunt all of the idiots behind that list for the rest of their fraudulent careers. Probably the same batch of mouthbreathers who voted Ovechkin on the first and second all-star teams in the same season.

 

[GoldenKnight]

I still prefer Malkin/Forsberg who sit around 50 but he's been far healthier which may give him an edge depending on how he ages. I'd say he has a shot at the 35-55 range give or take.

Malkin moved up from #50 a long time ago.

The list you are looking at is seven years old.

 

[wetcoast]

Malkin moved up from #50 a long time ago.

The list you are looking at is seven years old.

Sure but a HF Boards grudge lasts forever eh.

 

[nerevarine]

I would say top 5 alongside mcdavid

 

[jigglysquishy]

Malkin moved up from #50 a long time ago.

The list you are looking at is seven years old.

I don't have Malkin top 50, though to be fair I have him at 51.

Since 2018 he's been surpassed by McDavid and will soon be surpassed by Kucherov.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Malkin moved up from #50 a long time ago.

The list you are looking at is seven years old.

I would have Malkin and Forsberg both 40-50. Both very dominant peaks but had health issues throughout their careers. I expect Drai to finish 30-40 since he's having such a healthy prime.

 

[blundluntman]

Malkin moved up from #50 a long time ago.

The list you are looking at is seven years old.

I'm not going strictly off the list, I personally have him around that range and believe him and Forsberg are the same caliber. Malkin's put together some solid seasons in his mid to late 30s but nothing to really move him out of that range afaic.

 

[daver]

Leon drives plays as good or better than Jagr so just stop with this he isn't a positive without McDavid Bullshit.

Sorry, the numbers in the playoffs do not back this up.

If he is a good or better as Jagr at driving plays, why can't he be separated at ES from McDavid to create depth in the playoffs?

Mario and Jagr were separated at ES when they played together, notably in 95/96, then Jagr dominated the league without Mario.

I have Draisaitl just behind Mac and Kucherov as I am more confident that they would do as well in any team scenario than Draisaitl.

If he continues his play this year into the playoffs, that could change but both Mac and Kucherov are continuing their elite play too.

Placing him with Jagr, who proved beyond a shadow he could dominate, not just win an Art Ross, on any team is not reasonable.

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

Should be noted that daver is a shamless Pens booster. See this thread:

Some summertime fun: Comparing Crosby vs. McDavid best Playoff runs

I would take his takes with a plate of salt.

 

[wetcoast]

Sorry, the numbers in the playoffs do not back this up.

If he is a good or better as Jagr at driving plays, why can't he be separated at ES from McDavid to create depth in the playoffs?

Mario and Jagr were separated at ES when they played together, notably in 95/96, then Jagr dominated the league without Mario.

I have Draisaitl just behind Mac and Kucherov as I am more confident that they would do as well in any team scenario than Draisaitl.

If he continues his play this year into the playoffs, that could change but both Mac and Kucherov are continuing their elite play too.

Placing him with Jagr, who proved beyond a shadow he could dominate, not just win an Art Ross, on any team is not reasonable.

There is so much wrong with this post and I'm on my phone but I'll just say that you are completely looking over the fact that Leon has elite playoff performances even with the 2 times he kept playing when he would have been out of the lineup in the regular season.

Leon drives okay as well as Jagr and while Jagr is the better regular season performer Leon is easily the better playoff performer.

Heck his worst performance is probably a 5 point in 4 game sample against the Jets where their goalie stood on his head and the Oilers had zero PP opportunities.

Let that sink in.

 

[Regal]

Sorry, the numbers in the playoffs do not back this up.

If he is a good or better as Jagr at driving plays, why can't he be separated at ES from McDavid to create depth in the playoffs?

Mario and Jagr were separated at ES when they played together, notably in 95/96, then Jagr dominated the league without Mario.

I have Draisaitl just behind Mac and Kucherov as I am more confident that they would do as well in any team scenario than Draisaitl.

If he continues his play this year into the playoffs, that could change but both Mac and Kucherov are continuing their elite play too.

Placing him with Jagr, who proved beyond a shadow he could dominate, not just win an Art Ross, on any team is not reasonable.

I agree that Jagr clearly drove play better than Draisaitl, as he was one of the best ever at that. But the main reason they keep having to be put together is a serious lack of depth on the wing for the Oilers and generally getting the crumbs after McDavid. I mean sure you’d like him to carry crap like Malkin did with Fedotenko and Talbot in 2009, but he’s actually doing that at a high level this year (his numbers away from McDavid are still really strong), and he did it in 19-20 with RNH and Yamamoto. Jagr had Nedved and Francis in ‘96 so it’s a different situation.

 

[Video Nasty]

Draisaitl will easily clear Malkin and Forsberg in the all-time rankings. High level play, consistency, and durability matter, and what Draisaitl has achieved over seven consecutive seasons—and likely counting—is similar or not far off from a cherry picked seven best seasons from Malkin and Forsberg combined.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

There is so much wrong with this post and I'm on my phone but I'll just say that you are completely looking over the fact that Leon has elite playoff performances even with the 2 times he kept playing when he would have been out of the lineup in the regular season.

Leon drives okay as well as Jagr and while Jagr is the better regular season performer Leon is easily the better playoff performer.

Heck his worst performance is probably a 5 point in 4 game sample against the Jets where their goalie stood on his head and the Oilers had zero PP opportunities.

Let that sink in.

Jagr has 200+ playoff points himself. It's tough to compare playoffs since they were a low scoring war in the 90s and early 2000s whereas it's soft and high scoring nowadays.

Either way Jagr is a couple tiers above Draisaitl. 5 art rosses including 4 straight in a very defensive era. Jagr is like #7-10 all time, Draisaitl will be more like 30-40.

 

[Regal]

Jagr has 200+ playoff points himself. It's tough to compare playoffs since they were a low scoring war in the 90s and early 2000s whereas it's soft and high scoring nowadays.

Either way Jagr is a couple tiers above Draisaitl. 5 art rosses including 4 straight in a very defensive era. Jagr is like #7-10 all time, Draisaitl will be more like 30-40.

Jagr’s playoffs get underrated because he didn’t have a Conn Smythe worthy run, but neither has Draisaitl. This is the playoff PPG of everyone over 20 games from 94-95 to 03-04

 

[10YearsHaveGotBehind]

Draisaitl will easily clear Malkin and Forsberg in the all-time rankings. High level play, consistency, and durability matter, and what Draisaitl has achieved over seven consecutive seasons—and likely counting—is similar or not far off from a cherry picked seven best seasons from Malkin and Forsberg combined.

Drai already has a better prime than both those players. I think they both have better peak season(s). For me an extended elite prime (which Drai has) is more important.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

Jagr’s playoffs get underrated because he didn’t have a Conn Smythe worthy run, but neither has Draisaitl. This is the playoff PPG of everyone over 20 games from 94-95 to 03-04

View attachment 948713

Yea everyone's ppg used to plummet in the playoffs. That era was a very low scoring and rough, nasty but high intensity playoff environment. I miss it tbh, today playoff games don't look any different than regular season games.

 

[daver]

I agree that Jagr clearly drove play better than Draisaitl, as he was one of the best ever at that. But the main reason they keep having to be put together is a serious lack of depth on the wing for the Oilers and generally getting the crumbs after McDavid. I mean sure you’d like him to carry crap like Malkin did with Fedotenko and Talbot in 2009, but he’s actually doing that at a high level this year (his numbers away from McDavid are still really strong), and he did it in 19-20 with RNH and Yamamoto. Jagr had Nedved and Francis in ‘96 so it’s a different situation.

Sure, as I said, let's see if he can do it in the playoffs before mentioning him with a peak Malkin. I cannot see how he is a comparable to Jagr who won four Art Rosses without Mario.

In 19/20, he still spent significant time with McDavid at ES and won the Art Ross partially on the strength of his PP scoring.

 

[Regal]

Sure, as I said, let's see if he can do it in the playoffs before mentioning him with a peak Malkin. I cannot see how he is a comparable to Jagr who won four Art Rosses without Mario.

In 19/20, he still spent significant time with McDavid at ES and won the Art Ross partially on the strength of his PP scoring.

I agree with the first part, but in 19-20 he had better numbers away from McDavid than with him.

With McDavid 5v5:
553:21, 46.8 xGF%, 48.6 GF%, 28 points, 3.04 P/60

Without McDavid 5v5:
610:24, 51.7 xGF%, 57.4 GF%, 28 points, 2.75 P/60

From January 1st until the league shut down, he, RNH and Yamamoto outscored opponents 28-8

Also, he was 2nd in the league in 5v5 points to Panarin, only 3 behind and 4 ahead of 3rd place MacKinnon, and he, Panarin and MacKinnon were tied for 1st in primary 5v5 points, so while the PP was a factor in winning, he was still one of the best 5v5.

 

[daver]

I agree with the first part, but in 19-20 he had better numbers away from McDavid than with him.

With McDavid 5v5:
553:21, 46.8 xGF%, 48.6 GF%, 28 points, 3.04 P/60

Without McDavid 5v5:
610:24, 51.7 xGF%, 57.4 GF%, 28 points, 2.75 P/60

From January 1st until the league shut down, he, RNH and Yamamoto outscored opponents 28-8

Also, he was 2nd in the league in 5v5 points to Panarin, only 3 behind and 4 ahead of 3rd place MacKinnon, and he, Panarin and MacKinnon were tied for 1st in primary 5v5 points, so while the PP was a factor in winning, he was still one of the best 5v5.

Well if the goal is to put the puck in the net, then he had better numbers with McDavid. But the point is, the Oilers clearly would love to be able to throw two good scoring lines consistently but have not been able to as the numbers show.

McDavid, like other great players like Crosby and Jagr, can produce regardless but Draisaitl has not been able to that consistently. This doesn't take much away from his offensive resume but enough where I put him as the #4 forward for his era.

 

[wetcoast]

Well if the goal is to put the puck in the net, then he had better numbers with McDavid. But the point is, the Oilers clearly would love to be able to throw two good scoring lines consistently but have not been able to as the numbers show.

McDavid, like other great players like Crosby and Jagr, can produce regardless but Draisaitl has not been able to that consistently. This doesn't take much away from his offensive resume but enough where I put him as the #4 forward for his era.

You claim that he can't carry a line then get numbers stating otherwise and are still doubling down?

Most people don't even need to look at the numbers watching Leon play, especially in the playoffs you can his greatness.

 

[Regal]

Well if the goal is to put the puck in the net, then he had better numbers with McDavid. But the point is, the Oilers clearly would love to be able to throw two good scoring lines consistently but have not been able to as the numbers show.

McDavid, like other great players like Crosby and Jagr, can produce regardless but Draisaitl has not been able to that consistently. This doesn't take much away from his offensive resume but enough where I put him as the #4 forward for his era.

If scoring is all that matters then why are you harping on his plus minus in the playoffs? I think scoring the same number of points in slightly more minutes but being much better in goal differential is performing better.

I partially agree with the second paragraph. I don’t think he’s shown it to the same extent, but he’s also been hindered in that regard more than the others, and hasn’t had many opportunities to be “the guy”. I think watching him it’s pretty obvious he’d do fine with normal star linemates. I don’t think he’s quite the play driver of the others and agree that he’s 4th though. But those 3 are also top 10 forwards of all time.

 

[daver]

You claim that he can't carry a line then get numbers stating otherwise and are still doubling down?

Most people don't even need to look at the numbers watching Leon play, especially in the playoffs you can his greatness.

So why aren't Drai and McDavid separated more at ES, especially in the playoffs? It clearly would be beneficial for them to play separately but Draisaitl has yet to put up positive numbers at ES on his own line.

If he wants to be compared with the Top 10/15 C's all-time, he needs an elite playoff performance at ES w/o McDavid, IMO.

If scoring is all that matters then why are you harping on his plus minus in the playoffs?

We are dealing with a relatively small sample of his career. He certainly hasn't been able to translate that specific ES performance in the playoffs.

I cannot place him in the Top 40ish range, or even arguably above an oft-injured Malkin, without an elite ES playoff performance away from McDavid.