Where is Rantanen? Who is Rantanen? Why is Rantanen? What is Rantanen?

[Elysian]

indeed

That certainly was a post, with words in it

 

[Elysian]

So you would trade MacKinnon or Makar then? One of them had to go because MacK makes 12.6M now, Landy's back and his 7M counts again, and in three years, Cale Makar is gonna want 15-16M per year. If you are also on the hook for whatever Mikko wanted, say it's 12M like he signed in Dallas for, then who are you populating your roster with? Keep in mind that the Avs are THE WORST team in the NHL at drafting forwards outside the top 10.

Yes, Mikko's got the production, can't be disputed, but where is the Nazem Kadri level 2C, needed to win another cup, coming from? Avs have tried many time to win playoff series with just MacK, Mikko, Landy, and Cale, and it doesn't work.

Thought Landeskog was the 2C?

 

[AvsWraith]

Thought Landeskog was the 2C?

Nope, just takes faceoffs at times because he's better at it than most of our centers.

 

[NotCommitted]

So you would trade MacKinnon or Makar then? One of them had to go because MacK makes 12.6M now, Landy's back and his 7M counts again, and in three years, Cale Makar is gonna want 15-16M per year. If you are also on the hook for whatever Mikko wanted, say it's 12M like he signed in Dallas for, then who are you populating your roster with? Keep in mind that the Avs are THE WORST team in the NHL at drafting forwards outside the top 10.

How did we go from having like a <1M disagreement on AAV to "one of them had to go"? Seems to me like looking for justifications for what looks like a horrible misjudgment. But in all honesty it's too early to tell and I guess they have a few more years to make it work out - MacKinnon is 29 and not getting any younger.

 

[AvsWraith]

How did we go from having like a <1M disagreement on AAV to "one of them had to go"? Seems to me like looking for justifications for what looks like a horrible misjudgment. But in all honesty it's too early to tell and I guess they have a few more years to make it work out - MacKinnon is 29 and not getting any younger.

Because no one has been able to answer the question: Where are the Avs gonna get a 2C like Kadri if we pay Mikko. There just isn't enough cap room to do it.

Everyone is freaking out about how good Rants is playing right now, and saying what a mistake it was to trade him, but the real mistake was letting Kadri go. He scored so many clutch goals for us. Plus, he was also a great pest, drawing many penalites. Call it coping, or whatever, but I guarantee you he would've scored more than Brock Nelson's 0 goals in that series.

 

[hirawl]

Because no one has been able to answer the question: Where are the Avs gonna get a 2C like Kadri if we pay Mikko. There just isn't enough cap room to do it.

Everyone is freaking out about how good Rants is playing right now, and saying what a mistake it was to trade him, but the real mistake was letting Kadri go. He scored so many clutch goals for us. Plus, he was also a great pest, drawing many penalites. Call it coping, or whatever, but I guarantee you he would've scored more than Brock Nelson's 0 goals in that series.

There are still only so many players available every year. The cap is going up significantly. Basically every team is going to have cap space.

You think your chances to land a quality 2C would be better with
a) less than a mil more cap space
or
b) Rantanen onboard and <1M less cap space?

I'd even say b).

 

[Calderon]

Yes, of course it's unsustainable. He already holds the record for contributing to 13 straight goals in the POs. Nobody has ever done that.

It's unsustainable, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening and it isn't extremely impressive or that it should be discounted. Nobody scoring at this rate can sustain it in the NHL. Hell, the numbers would look amazing in Juniors.

It's quite an amazing fresh NHL record. Weirdly it makes Dallas seem like a one man team. When the Rantanen trade was done many looked at their forward lines and claimed Dallas now had as good a top-6 as any team. Where's the rest of that great top-6 now. If these individuals find their game who's gonna stop Dallas from winning the Cup?

Edit: I meant top-9, my bad.

 

[serp]

It's quite an amazing fresh NHL record. Weirdly it makes Dallas seem like a one man team. When the Rantanen trade was done many looked at their forward lines and claimed Dallas now had as good a top-6 as any team. Where's the rest of that great top-6 now. If these individuals find their game who's gonna stop Dallas from winning the Cup?

I mean Hintz is at PPG and a ton of other players are major contributors. Rantanen is currently on a major heater since game 4 of the Avs series but he's not doing it all by himself.

 

[BB88]

So you would trade MacKinnon or Makar then? One of them had to go because MacK makes 12.6M now, Landy's back and his 7M counts again, and in three years, Cale Makar is gonna want 15-16M per year. If you are also on the hook for whatever Mikko wanted, say it's 12M like he signed in Dallas for, then who are you populating your roster with? Keep in mind that the Avs are THE WORST team in the NHL at drafting forwards outside the top 10.

Yes, Mikko's got the production, can't be disputed, but where is the Nazem Kadri level 2C, needed to win another cup, coming from? Avs have tried many time to win playoff series with just MacK, Mikko, Landy, and Cale, and it doesn't work.

That Makar contract is the most stupid excuse there is

Rather than paying your superstars you are spending that extra on players like Coyle and Manson, the real ”difference” makers. Awesome

You could have had Rantanen, Mitt, a 1st, your best prospect but you turned that into Nelson and Necas. Talk about improved depth

You have no picks, no top prospects thanks to this mess of a season. Have fun trying to win

 

[Kranix]

Being completely honest I don't think he'd be this type of player in Rod's system.

Not even McDavid could be

 

[Beau Knows]

 

[avocadosmoothie]

It's quite an amazing fresh NHL record. Weirdly it makes Dallas seem like a one man team. When the Rantanen trade was done many looked at their forward lines and claimed Dallas now had as good a top-6 as any team. Where's the rest of that great top-6 now. If these individuals find their game who's gonna stop Dallas from winning the Cup?

Not just the top 6, pre-Rantanen the mains deemed Dallas' top 9 to be in a league of its own with Florida's, and their forwards to be the deepest in the league. Their forwards as a whole have been underwhelming thus far and the team has been hard carried by Rantanen.

 

[Calderon]

Not just the top 6, pre-Rantanen the mains deemed Dallas' top 9 to be in a league of its own with Florida's, and their forwards to be the deepest in the league. Their forwards as a whole have been underwhelming thus far and the team has been hard carried by Rantanen.

Good catch, dunno where my head was when writing that. I did mean top-9.

 

[AvsWraith]

There are still only so many players available every year. The cap is going up significantly. Basically every team is going to have cap space.

You think your chances to land a quality 2C would be better with
a) less than a mil more cap space
or
b) Rantanen onboard and <1M less cap space?

I'd even say b).

Is the cap going up 11.4M? Because that's what it would've had to be to give Mikko his raise, and have Landy's 7M back on the books.

Our chances to have a quality 2C died the day CMac chose Manson over Kadri.

 

[AvsWraith]

That Makar contract is the most stupid excuse there is

Rather than paying your superstars you are spending that extra on players like Coyle and Manson, the real ”difference” makers. Awesome

You could have had Rantanen, Mitt, a 1st, your best prospect but you turned that into Nelson and Necas. Talk about improved depth

You have no picks, no top prospects thanks to this mess of a season. Have fun trying to win

They tried winning with just our superstars. It didn't work.

2 first round exits, 4 second round exits since 2018. They needed depth.

And when they finally got it, Kadri, Bura, Cogs, Helm, etc. They won the cup. But that was the last year of MacK's sweetheart contract, and also Cale was still on his rookie deal.

You don't have to tell me we're screwed, everyone on our board, except for a few, knows it. But it isn't because CMac traded Rantanen, it's because:

1. We can't draft
2. We should've kept Kadri, we'd be playing the Jets right now if we had him over Brock Nelson in that series
3. Our pro scouts are almost as bad as our amateur scouts at evaluating talent.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Where is Rantanen, who is Rantinen, why is Rantenen.

 

[Troy McClure]

They tried winning with just our superstars. It didn't work.

2 first round exits, 4 second round exits since 2018. They needed depth.

And when they finally got it, Kadri, Bura, Cogs, Helm, etc. They won the cup. But that was the last year of MacK's sweetheart contract, and also Cale was still on his rookie deal.

You don't have to tell me we're screwed, everyone on our board, except for a few, knows it. But it isn't because CMac traded Rantanen, it's because:

1. We can't draft
2. We should've kept Kadri, we'd be playing the Jets right now if we had him over Brock Nelson in that series
3. Our pro scouts are almost as bad as our amateur scouts at evaluating talent.

To be fair, you're also talking about two playoff runs after the Cup win where Landeskog was unable to play and Nichushkin disappeared during the playoffs. It's hard to win with the superstars when two of the second tier of guys aren't there either.

 

[coooldude]

To be fair, you're also talking about two playoff runs after the Cup win where Landeskog was unable to play and Nichushkin disappeared during the playoffs. It's hard to win with the superstars when two of the second tier of guys aren't there either.

Yeah, this is my take.

They had a 7ish year window, won a cup, then burned two years because of a freak injury and Nuke not being able to keep on the level (plus not keeping Kadri). But that didn't mean the build was wrong at the top. Sometimes you have down years in your contention window.

With Nuke back, and Landeskog back, and a good goalie (Blackwood), this year you had a real shot. The 2C was a recurring problem once solved by Kadri and they should have found a way to keep him. But they had all the pieces, and juuuust enough D depth, to continue the real contender window. WITH all three megastars. That's my take. Sure it's top-heavy. But the top is so good that it's a contender build.

With just Nate and Makar, even with Landy and Nuke back, but no prospect pipeline and no strong 2C... it's not looking great. Huge hole where Moose was, and no 2C, and the D looking a bit thin behind Makar and Toews, and no way to address those issues.

 

[AvsWraith]

With Nuke back, and Landeskog back, and a good goalie (Blackwood), this year you had a real shot.

You'd think so, but not really.

Let's face it, DeBoer completely owns Bednar. And DeBoer can get more out of his players too.
They were missing two of their best guys and you couldn't tell the difference.

Ottenger 9 out of 10 times will outplay Blackwood.

There is a huge difference between cocaine Nuke, and the drug free version.

There is something about winning that cup as well. It reminds me of the Caps after they got their cup. They got it done, finally, and then there wasn't any killer instinct anymore. They were good, no one really wanted to make that grind back to 16W again.

On the bright side though:

Landy played way better than expected, I have nothing but respect for the effort he put in.

 

[coooldude]

You'd think so, but not really.

Let's face it, DeBoer completely owns Bednar. And DeBoer can get more out of his players too.
They were missing two of their best guys and you couldn't tell the difference.

Ottenger 9 out of 10 times will outplay Blackwood.

There is a huge difference between cocaine Nuke, and the drug free version.

There is something about winning that cup as well. It reminds me of the Caps after they got their cup. They got it done, finally, and then there wasn't any killer instinct anymore. They were good, no one really wanted to make that grind back to 16W again.

On the bright side though:

Landy played way better than expected, I have nothing but respect for the effort he put in.

You say all this, but the team was 4 minutes away in G7 away rink. Yeah, they didn't have their top 2 players, but Dallas is arguably the deepest roster in the league and the guys took them to 7 with Rantanen in the wrong colors. This was a WCF matchup in the 1st round.

 

[AvsWraith]

You say all this, but the team was 4 minutes away in G7 away rink. Yeah, they didn't have their top 2 players, but Dallas is arguably the deepest roster in the league and the guys took them to 7 with Rantanen in the wrong colors. This was a WCF matchup in the 1st round.

It was a WCF caliber matchup, and if the brackets were different, it very well could've been the WCF. However, the track record speaks for itself. Dallas has our number. Look at all the critical mistakes we made in the last twelve minutes of that game. Does a team that really wants it do that? Look at that PK where Dallas took the lead, it was the worst I've ever seen in a game like that. Passing lanes wide open, no disruption, no one moving... our guys might as well have been parking cones out there.

 

[behemolari]

There are still only so many players available every year. The cap is going up significantly. Basically every team is going to have cap space.

You think your chances to land a quality 2C would be better with
a) less than a mil more cap space
or
b) Rantanen onboard and <1M less cap space?

I'd even say b).

quality C wont sign with Colorado after what they have seen

 

[BB88]

They tried winning with just our superstars. It didn't work.

2 first round exits, 4 second round exits since 2018. They needed depth.

And when they finally got it, Kadri, Bura, Cogs, Helm, etc. They won the cup. But that was the last year of MacK's sweetheart contract, and also Cale was still on his rookie deal.

You don't have to tell me we're screwed, everyone on our board, except for a few, knows it. But it isn't because CMac traded Rantanen, it's because:

1. We can't draft
2. We should've kept Kadri, we'd be playing the Jets right now if we had him over Brock Nelson in that series
3. Our pro scouts are almost as bad as our amateur scouts at evaluating talent.

The last 2 years you were without 2 legit 1st line talents. That had nothing to do with Rantanens contract.

Of course the depth takes a massive hit with those losses but you always so conviently leave them out of your stories

You could have run with

Lehkonen- Mackinnon- Landeskog
Nichuskin- Nelson/Mitt- Rantanen

And have by far the best depth post Cup run while having the high end talent as well

You also weren’t ready for long post season runs untill Makar hit running, which you won’t mention either

Colorado just went full crazy this year and will pay the price for it, and yes massive reason will be Rantanen trade

 

[hirawl]

Is the cap going up 11.4M? Because that's what it would've had to be to give Mikko his raise, and have Landy's 7M back on the books.

Our chances to have a quality 2C died the day CMac chose Manson over Kadri.

It's going up 7.5M for the next season and a total of 25.5M in three years. Avs were ready to pay Mikko 11.6M or 11.75M depending on the source and 12.5M was a figure that would've gotten it done instantly.

That extra 750-900k was obviously seen too much for the Avs to take care of before next season. Nothing wrong with that other than it does seem awfully little when talking elite core pieces.

I'm also pretty sure in a couple of years lesser players are being paid way more than then probably still elite Rantanen is. Possibly even on the Avs' roster.

To me it looks like MacFarland and Sakic were banking on Rantanen falling off a cliff too early into his extension. Which is fair enough and could well happen. But to do it over less than 1 mil sure looks kind of insane right now.

 

[AvsWraith]

It's going up 7.5M for the next season and a total of 25.5M in three years. Avs were ready to pay Mikko 11.6M or 11.75M depending on the source and 12.5M was a figure that would've gotten it done instantly.

That extra 750-900k was obviously seen too much for the Avs to take care of before next season. Nothing wrong with that other than it does seem awfully little when talking elite core pieces.

I'm also pretty sure in a couple of years lesser players are being paid way more than then probably still elite Rantanen is. Possibly even on the Avs' roster.

To me it looks like MacFarland and Sakic were banking on Rantanen falling off a cliff too early into his extension. Which is fair enough and could well happen. But to do it over less than 1 mil sure looks kind of insane right now.

I think CMac just wanted more depth. He failed.

I also heard that neither Sakic or Cmac had good experiences dealing with Rants agent, and it had in fact gotten quite ugly during both times they had negotiated a contract with them. Maybe that played a role as well.