Where does Barkov rank right now for best centers in the NHL?

[CanadienShark]

3-5 does seem reasonable but so does top 10 as I look at this question as to which center do I take going into next season throw everyone in the pool and redrafting them.

In the last 4 seasons he has basically missed an average of 10 games per 82 and this season was the healthiest with 73 games in 82.


Maybe Celebrini?

Which 9 centres would you argue aside from the obvious 4? I'm going to assume you'll say some combination of: Miller, Pettersson, Crosby, Eichel, and Hughes, Point, and Larkin? Not that I agree, just curious.

 

[Foppberg]

#3

 

[wetcoast]

Which 9 centres would you argue aside from the obvious 4? I'm going to assume you'll say some combination of: Miller, Pettersson, Crosby, Eichel, and Hughes, Point, and Larkin? Not that I agree, just curious.

Sure that's why I said top 10 closer to 5th than 10th but I can't make the solid lock or stronger argument for 3 or 4 or maybe even 5th.

the Panthers as a whole just took the next step when they flipped tkachuk for Huberdeau and Montour really stepped up in replacement of Weegar.

I followed Montour career very closely as I had him in a keeper fantasy league and he always had the last 2 seasons potential in him.

All that being said I have no problem with people putting Barkov as high as 3 or 4 but for me the argument is stronger that he is in the mix for 5 or 6ish and the constant missing 10 games per season is the tipping point there..

I think Aho and Kopitar are still up there in the top 10 argument but sure Barkov is higher than them and Bedard is going to explode offensively as soon as next year if he gets some reasonable top line talent to play with.

McDavid, Drai/Mack even Matthews all have the more proven track record over the past 3 to 4 years.

 

[CanadienShark]

Sure that's why I said top 10 closer to 5th than 10th but I can't make the solid lock or stronger argument for 3 or 4 or maybe even 5th.

the Panthers as a whole just took the next step when they flipped tkachuk for Huberdeau and Montour really stepped up in replacement of Weegar.

I followed Montour career very closely as I had him in a keeper fantasy league and he always had the last 2 seasons potential in him.

All that being said I have no problem with people putting Barkov as high as 3 or 4 but for me the argument is stronger that he is in the mix for 5 or 6ish and the constant missing 10 games per season is the tipping point there..

I think Aho and Kopitar are still up there in the top 10 argument but sure Barkov is higher than them and Bedard is going to explode offensively as soon as next year if he gets some reasonable top line talent to play with.

McDavid, Drai/Mack even Matthews all have the more proven track record over the past 3 to 4 years.

I know. I think top 5 is an absolute lock. You say he's not, so who would you have ahead aside from the obvious 2-4 that's already been discussed.

 

[22FUTON9]

I’d still have him at 4 or 5 but I think the thing that is so special about Barkov, or Eichel for that matter, is their ability to shine against top notch matchups and absolutely dominate their counterparts

On a per game basis, I think guys like Drai and Matthews might have a bigger impact in general, just due to their offense, but it gets tricky when you consider how they dominate matchups in the playoffs.

I feel like players that have unreal skill, but for some reason don’t have 100 point seasons really fall under this category. Like you watch Barkov and Eichel sometimes and wonder how they don’t score 100+ points every year. Obviously they’re a lot more defense oriented than the other guys, but I’m always surprised.

 

[2for1PizzaPastuh]

If Barkov played on a Canadian team, he'd be hailed as the best player in the world. He doesn't produce as many points but he helps you win games. You want individual trophies or you want to win the Cup?

Why post things like this? It just leads to pushback and greater discredit. Barkov is nowhere near the best player in the world. This wouldn't even be a conversation if not for Bobrovky saving his bacon in these finals.

 

[Elvs]

I'd have him at number 3 behind McDavid and MacKinnon. Just personal preference over Matthews and Draisaitl who are in the same tier.

I'm happy Barkov and also Forsling is having success. Maybe people will start noticing how defense still matters, even in a league were scoring is up, the playoffs are a different animal.

Every playoff series is like a new mini season, and all those little details that doesn't always translate to points matters.

There is a reason why teams built around the likes of Bergeron/Chara, Toews/Hossa/Keith, Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Lidstrom, Kopitar/Doughty, O'Reilly/Pietrangelo etc have success.

You can also see it in Edmonton. This year, up until the finals, they have actually played good defense. McDavid is also a improved defensive player compared to the first 2-3 times he was in the postseason, and now they've made it this far.

 

[LOFIN]

He's top-5, we'll just leave it at that.

 

[SillyRabbit]

Lots of overreactions here, he's not better than MacKinnon, Draisaitl or Matthews.

5th is the absolute highest you could rank him, and even then I'd still have him closer to the group of guys below him like Hughes, Miller, Crosby, Eichel and Pettersson than I would to the big 4.

 

[Sky04]

The problem with Barkov is... ourselves. We are too obsess with numbers and figures which tends to simplify our judgement so much. Barkov is included in an all-rounder C archetype who possess both abilities on offense and defense.

Before him, We rarely value Kopitar, Datsyuk, Bergeron and ROR as "the best C" since the best C in our opinion is the one who produce the most. So, Barkov will never be number one like McD, MacK and Syd in our bias opinion.

Because they never were? Imagine thinking ROR was better than Crosby.

 

[karhukissa]

Lots of overreactions here, he's not better than MacKinnon, Draisaitl or Matthews.

5th is the absolute highest you could rank him, and even then I'd still have him closer to the group of guys below him like Hughes, Miller, Crosby, Eichel and Pettersson than I would to the big 4.

Matthews can score 1000 goals during regular season but he disappears time and time again when he should carry his team in the playoffs. Amazing player but at times he is completely useless, guys like MacKinnon and Barkov never are. So until he shows something in playoffs i wouldn't rank him that high.

Put Hughes or Pettersson in that Florida team over Barkov and they'd be golfing somewhere right now and not playing in the finals.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

Defense is still underrated among top players.

 

[NotCommitted]

Someone posted a clip of TSN(?) or some other network top NHL players list and Barkov was #3 on that behind McDavid (#1) and MacKinnon and Torts was there arguing Barkov should be higher. This clip was from 2022. Of course that was TV, it would've been boring if they all just were nodding at the list.

Just saying having him as #3 is not outlandish by any means, more like I'm surprised he's not "consensus" top3. I can easily understand Matthews (despite his playoff resume) or Draisaitl ahead of him - I wouldn't pick them before him personally but I totally get it and very good case can be made for both, that would make Barkov #5, and "that's the absolute lowest you can rank him" (not serious, you can rank him 20 or 50 if you like but you might have trouble coming up with why)

But when there are top10 center threads, I see him regularly at the bottom of top10 (if he makes the list!) below Elias Pettersson or someone (and I like Pettersson, just using him as an example, but no way I take him before Barkov) and I'm like WTF are people smoking

 

[Rogue Winger]

When evaluating players, case Barkov is a healthy reminder that hockey is more than just scoring. I guess pretty much everybody agrees Barkov is the best defensive forward in the world.

That being said, so far Barkov has more points in the finals than McDavid and Draisaitl combined. Yes, 3 game sample is a very small, but we are talking about Stanley Cup finals.

McDavid is the best player (not in these finals, though), but the ranking after that is not clear at all.

 

[elmaco]

Lots of overreactions here, he's not better than MacKinnon, Draisaitl or Matthews.

5th is the absolute highest you could rank him, and even then I'd still have him closer to the group of guys below him like Hughes, Miller, Crosby, Eichel and Pettersson than I would to the big 4.

Tummyache Matthews who hasn't even sniffed the second round? You are kidding.

 

[ijuka]

So strange how people consider him a top 3 center. Literally nothing backs that up.

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Why is Matthews assumed to be top 3 in these options

Uhm because he just scored 69 goals

Is one of the premier goal scorers most likely of all time

Why would he not be top 3?

Who gives a f*** about regular season?

I mean the regular season is what gets you to the playoffs is it not?

And despite what people on here say regular season numbers do matter

 

[elmaco]

Uhm because he just scored 69 goals

Is one of the premier goal scorers most likely of all time

Why would he not be top 3?


I mean the regular season is what gets you to the playoffs is it not?

And despite what people on here say regular season numbers do matter

Yes, but if your team is built for the playoffs, it doesn't really matter which seed you get, only that you're in, get it?

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Defense is still underrated among top players.

I disagree defense is way over-rated among top players

Yes, but if your team is built for the playoffs, it doesn't really matter which seed you get, only that you're in, get it?

Nah the regular season matters completely

So what you're saying is Gretzkys 3000 + points dont matter cos they were in the regular season?

 

[Rschmitz]

#1 if you're able to match him up against the other teams top line.

Doesn't crack top 10 if you're just stacking a scoring line.

I think that puts him in the top 4 since you can't control in game situations. I wouldn't put him over Mack/McD/Matthews

 

[elmaco]

I disagree defense is way over-rated among top players


Nah the regular season matters completely

So what you're saying is Gretzkys 3000 + points dont matter cos they were in the regular season?

Well think of it this way, the Leafs dominate every regular season, but stink up the place in the playoffs, which one would you rather see? Decent regular season and good playoff run or the other way?

 

[sensfan4lifee]

Well think of it this way, the Leafs dominate every regular season, but stink up the place in the playoffs, which one would you rather see? Decent regular season and good playoff run or the other way?

that didn't answer my question though? Since the regular season doesn't matter Gretzkys points dont matter? The hart trophy should replace the conn smythe for play off trophy?

 

[elmaco]

that didn't answer my question though? Since the regular season doesn't matter Gretzkys points dont matter? The hart trophy should replace the conn smythe for play off trophy?

Pretty much, the cup is the thing that matters the most. All those awards are just consolation prizes.

 

[Jason MacIsaac]

I disagree defense is way over-rated among top players

Player 1 puts up 1st line center numbers. Player 2 puts up generational offensive center numbers. Player 1 plays player 2 and shuts him down having a 56% xGF and GF rate. Who is the better player? I will take the player that wins against any other 1C. It’s as if people didn’t learn with Bergeron.

 

[Thallis]

Well think of it this way, the Leafs dominate every regular season, but stink up the place in the playoffs, which one would you rather see? Decent regular season and good playoff run or the other way?

A team that has never won the president's trophy doesn't dominate the regular season.