Where do you rank Martin Brodeur all time among goalies?

[FrankSidebottom]

#6-7, great, but a bit overrated goalie with no argument being over Hasek/Roy as era counterparts

 

[Chairman Maouth]

It may not be the most popular way to determine the greatest player in a sport but I always hold the players who break the game to the highest regard.

Brodeur forced the league to change its rules because he was too good at what he did. Hasek and Roy never got to that level.

Using that criteria, Clint Benedict should easily be top 3.

 

[rogking65]

I voted 3, mostly because of this

Brodeur's NHL records :

Most Minutes Played in a Single Season - 4,697 - 2006-07
Most Wins in a Single Season- 48 - 2006-07
Most Consecutive 30 Win Seasons - 12 - 1995-96 through 2007-08
Most Consecutive 35-win seasons (11)
Most 40 Win Seasons - 8 - (1997-98, 1999-00, 2000-01, 2002-03, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2009-10)
Most Consecutive 40 Win Seasons - 3 - 2005-06 through 2007-08
Most All-Time OT Wins - 52
Most All-Time Shootout Wins - 26
Most Shootout Shots Against in a Single Seasons - 60 - 2006-07
Most All-Time Shootout Shots Against - 141
Most Consecutive Post-Season Starts - 158
Best Post-Season Goals-Against Average All-Time - 1.96
Most Shutouts in a Post-Season Series - 3 (tie), 2003 Stanley Cup Finals vs. Anaheim
Most Shutouts in a Post Season (7, in 2002-03)
Most Shutouts, Regular Season + Postseason - 149
Only NHL goaltender to score a game-winning goal
One of only two NHL goalies to score a goal in both the regular season and the playoffs
First goaltender in history to have 3 shutouts in 2 different playoff series. (1995 against Boston Bruins, 2003 against Anaheim Ducks )
Most consecutive opening night starts with one team (17)
Most Regular Season Wins All Time - 691
Most Regular Season Shutouts - 125
Most Games Played All Time by a Goaltender - 1,266
Most 30 Win Seasons - 13
Most Minutes All Time - 74,438
Most Post-Season Shutouts - 24
Most Career Regular Season Goals by a Goaltender - 2
Most Career Goals (Including Playoffs) by a Goaltender - 3
Most Career Saves - 28,508

guess what? he holds the record for most career losses

 

[rogking65]

It may not be the most popular way to determine the greatest player in a sport but I always hold the players who break the game to the highest regard.

Brodeur forced the league to change its rules because he was too good at what he did. Hasek and Roy never got to that level.

he was a great stick handler. So what. Small part of goaltending.. SStopping pucks is his main job,and having the 43 best career save percentage all time speaks volumes..Guess who is number 1

 

[TBF1972]

Top 10 really. There are a lot of dominant goalies throughout history that can make a strong case to be above him. He’s not in the Hasek/Roy tier and I don’t think he’s really in the next one with guys like Plante/Dryden/Sawchuk/Hall. I have him more in a tier with guys like Brimsek or CuJo

Roy is not in the same tier as Hasek. Hasek is all alone in the top tier.

 

[Jared Dunn]

If we're talking all of hockey Tretiak can't be forgotten, otherwise 3rd place is probably right

 

[Duffalufagus]

This is such a tough one. He was sheltered for most of his career in NJ. Top ten based purely on resume. Certainly not on talent.

 

[Xirik]

This is such a tough one. He was sheltered for most of his career in NJ. Top ten based purely on resume. Certainly not on talent.

Yet he was still getting nominated and winning trophies past 2005. Oh and took the the Devils to the Stanley Cup finals in the twilight of his career.

 

[CascadiaPuck]

Why should we take away longetivity. Being able to do it for many games is something that makes it more impressive.

I think Brodeur was phenomenal and he has great accomplishments. But, while longevity is important, I don’t know that it will ever be a top criteria in all-time greats discussions. You don’t see a lot of arguments for Mike Gartner or Dave Andreychuk as all-time great goal scorers, yet they’re ranked #8 and #15 on the all-time goal scoring list, right?

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

Maybe but you still have to do it. Longetivoty shouldn't be an handicap. I love guys like Dryden and Bossy, but they have the question mark of would they have done it for a whole career ? Brodeur was excellent until he was old, which is even more impressive if you ask me

It shouldn't be a handicap, but it's also not a separator unless the longevity and extended greatness is unprecedented for the position. Such as Bourque on defense or Howe at forward.

Other Top 3 level goalies have more impressive age 40+ seasons.

Brodeur over age 40:

75 games
.901 sv%
2.42 gaa
-23.2 gsaa

Hasek over age 40:

140 games
.914 sv%
2.09 gaa
31.2 gsaa

Plante over age 40:

183 games
2x led in sv%
2x led in gaa
1x Vezina
1x AS-2
.927 sv%
2.29 gaa
127.6 gsaa

 

[Hockeyholic]

Top 5 in my lifetime:

Hasek
Roy
Brodeur
Belfour
Lundqvist

4th and 5th may be switched.

I find it tough to rank goalies well before my time. Obviously this list would be different if all time.

 

[KingsHockey24]

#1 and #2

 

[FissionFire]

Roy is not in the same tier as Hasek. Hasek is all alone in the top tier.

I personally agree with that, but there are many who consider Roy better. I think there is a decent argument even if I don’t agree with it that they could be interchangeable and that’s why I have them on the same tier.

 

[FissionFire]

he was a great stick handler. So what. Small part of goaltending.. SStopping pucks is his main job,and having the 43 best career save percentage all time speaks volumes..Guess who is number 1

I’d be careful using career save percentage as a metric. It’s not exactly a predictor of greatness. For example, by that metric Cory Schneider and Darcy Kuemper are 11th and 12th best, Robin Lehner is 18th, and Anton Khudobin - a player nobody will mistake for an all-time great - is 19th best.

Yes, Brodeur is 43rd on that list, but do you know who that’s better than? Roy at 59th.

A list a notable players ahead of Roy, a consensus top 3 all-time goalie, on that list are such notables as the aforementioned quartet (Schneider, Kuemper, Lehner, Khudobin), Halak, Dubnyk, Huet, Howard, Bernier, Greiss, Lehtonen, Manny Fernandez (remember him?), Niemi, Manny Legace (lol?), Steve Mason, Michal Neuvirth, and the immortal Martin Biron. Does this mean all these average to subpar goalies are better at stopping pucks than Roy was? That seems to be your argument against Brodeur.

 

[ItWasJustified]

1. Roy
2. Hasek
3. Brodeur

 

[rogking65]

I’d be careful using career save percentage as a metric. It’s not exactly a predictor of greatness. For example, by that metric Cory Schneider and Darcy Kuemper are 11th and 12th best, Robin Lehner is 18th, and Anton Khudobin - a player nobody will mistake for an all-time great - is 19th best.

Yes, Brodeur is 43rd on that list, but do you know who that’s better than? Roy at 59th.

A list a notable players ahead of Roy, a consensus top 3 all-time goalie, on that list are such notables as the aforementioned quartet (Schneider, Kuemper, Lehner, Khudobin), Halak, Dubnyk, Huet, Howard, Bernier, Greiss, Lehtonen, Manny Fernandez (remember him?), Niemi, Manny Legace (lol?), Steve Mason, Michal Neuvirth, and the immortal Martin Biron. Does this mean all these average to subpar goalies are better at stopping pucks than Roy was? That seems to be your argument against Brodeur.

so what did he do great . People bring up wins yet he holdss record for most career losses

 

[TBF1972]

I personally agree with that, but there are many who consider Roy better. I think there is a decent argument even if I don’t agree with it that they could be interchangeable and that’s why I have them on the same tier.

i have seen those arguments and imo they aren't valid.

when hasek joined the league roy was the best goaltender. then hasek became simply a much more dominant goaltender and the roy fans said, but he didn't win a cup. once hasek won the cup in detroit, it wasn't his achievement. it was because of the team. but cup wins are always team achievements. also the cups, which were won by roy.

i also saw longevity as an argument for roy, which is complete bullshit. yes, he played more games and seasons in the nhl. but only because hasek wasn't able to join the nhl until he turned 26 years old. he still played dominant professional hockey in europe. while roy retired at age 37, hasek played until he was 43 years old in the nhl. obviously he wasn't at his peak at the end. but even including all these years up in age on a downwards slope his career save percentage is way-way better than roy's.

there is no contest between hasek and roy. hasek is clearly better. the difference between hasek and roy is bigger than between gretzky and lemieux.

 

[LDX]

i have seen those arguments and imo they aren't valid.

when hasek joined the league roy was the best goaltender. then hasek became simply a much more dominant goaltender and the roy fans said, but he didn't win a cup. once hasek won the cup in detroit, it wasn't his achievement. it was because of the team. but cup wins are always team achievements. also the cups, which were won by roy.

I'm glad that you're sharing your opinion in a polite way, but isn't hard to argue that Hasek's and Roy's cups were the same...? 3 Conn Smythes to 0 is a massive difference, that's why they're Roy's achievements and Hasek is almost disregarded.

I would much better understand if someone wanted to compare their Olympic run in 98', and take Hasek's run in Nagano vs Roy's playoffs - but to say the playoffs are comparable is flat out wrong.

 

[BigBadBruins7708]

I'm glad that you're sharing your opinion in a polite way, but isn't hard to argue that Hasek's and Roy's cups were the same...? 3 Conn Smythes to 0 is a massive difference, that's why they're Roy's achievements and Hasek is almost disregarded.

I would much better understand if someone wanted to compare their Olympic run in 98', and take Hasek's run in Nagano vs Roy's playoffs - but to say the playoffs are comparable is flat out wrong.

To be a bit facetious, Hasek has the better career playoff SV% and GAA between the two, .925 vs .918 and 2.02 vs 2.30

Really though it's entirely possible to poke holes in 2 of Roy's 3 Smythe wins.

1986: Montreal wasn't some cellar dweller he lifted to the promised land. They were a perennial playoff team and playoff threat reaching the conference finals in 84. Additionally, Roy's performance gets inflated considering he was playing behind a prime Larry Robinson, Chelios, Carbonneau and Gainey.

2001: This one especially feels like a career achievement award. I would have voted for Sakic who led the league in playoff goals (13) and points (26) including 9 points in the SCF

 

[TBF1972]

I'm glad that you're sharing your opinion in a polite way, but isn't hard to argue that Hasek's and Roy's cups were the same...? 3 Conn Smythes to 0 is a massive difference, that's why they're Roy's achievements and Hasek is almost disregarded.

I would much better understand if someone wanted to compare their Olympic run in 98', and take Hasek's run in Nagano vs Roy's playoffs - but to say the playoffs are comparable is flat out wrong.

the only comparison i have made between the two was, that all their cup wins were team achievements.

 

[centipede2233]

To be a bit facetious, Hasek has the better career playoff SV% and GAA between the two, .925 vs .918 and 2.02 vs 2.30

Really though it's entirely possible to poke holes in 2 of Roy's 3 Smythe wins.

1986: Montreal wasn't some cellar dweller he lifted to the promised land. They were a perennial playoff team and playoff threat reaching the conference finals in 84. Additionally, Roy's performance gets inflated considering he was playing behind a prime Larry Robinson, Chelios, Carbonneau and Gainey.

2001: This one especially feels like a career achievement award. I would have voted for Sakic who led the league in playoff goals (13) and points (26) including 9 points in the SCF

I disagree on the 2001 smythe. Roy had a .934 save %. The next closest starting goalie was cujo with a .927 with half the games played. Then the next highest save % for a starting goalie that playoff year was Salo with .920 with only 6 gp and turek with a .919. Hasek was next with a .916. Roh comparative to his counterparts was head and shoulders above all. Sakic had a very good playoff, but really didn’t separate from his peers like Roy did, as tanguay and hejduk both had over 20 pts, add in rob blakes 19 pts in 23 games, the smythe going to Roy was a no brainer, oh did I mention brodeur’s save % was .898….

 

[Hischier and Hughes]

He's definitely a top-10 guy for me, maybe a top-5 but not quite as sure about that.

To me Hasek and Roy are easily the top 2, then Plante is a lock at 3. Then there's a tier with Hall (who I really like), Sawchuk, Brodeur, Dryden. That group can be justified in a bunch of different orders depending on what you like to see in a goalie. So I could see Brodeur as high as 4 or as low as 7, without it being very controversial in either direction.

.910 Career average Roy is a clear top-2?

Lmfao man, hockey history has gone to absolute shit. Just put any goalie youve never heard of in a bin labeled 'ignorance'

To be a bit facetious, Hasek has the better career playoff SV% and GAA between the two, .925 vs .918 and 2.02 vs 2.30

Really though it's entirely possible to poke holes in 2 of Roy's 3 Smythe wins.

1986: Montreal wasn't some cellar dweller he lifted to the promised land. They were a perennial playoff team and playoff threat reaching the conference finals in 84. Additionally, Roy's performance gets inflated considering he was playing behind a prime Larry Robinson, Chelios, Carbonneau and Gainey.

2001: This one especially feels like a career achievement award. I would have voted for Sakic who led the league in playoff goals (13) and points (26) including 9 points in the SCF

Roy fans have absolutely no reasoning for you when you bring up anything but playoff stats

Guy has as many seasons under .900 as he does above it, but hey forget that! His playoffs yo!

 

[Video Nasty]

.910 Career average Roy is a clear top-2?

Lmfao man, hockey history has gone to absolute shit. Just put any goalie youve never heard of in a bin labeled 'ignorance'


Roy fans have absolutely no reasoning for you when you bring up anything but playoff stats

Guy has as many seasons under .900 as he does above it, but hey forget that! His playoffs yo!

“Hockey history has gone to absolute shit”

* then proceeds to show an incredible lack of awareness of hockey history *

The bolded sentence of yours is a lie. Roy had 3 seasons out of 19 (18 really since year 1 consists of a single game) with a SV% under .900. That makes 16 (or 15 if you prefer) with it being .900 or above.

League wide SV% was under .900 in Roy’s first 9 seasons and 10 out of his first 11.

As mentioned before, he led the league in SV% 4 times in a 5 year span with a .900, .908, .912, and .914. League average was .880, .879, .881, and .888 in those years.

Brodeur never led the league in SV% and never really came close either.

Roy also posted two of the highest SV% (and two of his lowest GAA) of his career at age 36 and 37, the final two years of his career, because obviously league averages went up. He was still well above the average. Brodeur finished behind him in those two years as well at 29 and 30 years old.

Your stance has no proof or common sense.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I'm pretty sure I already posted about it in this thread, but adjusted for era, Patrick Roy has among the highest save percentage all time, one you take the scoring environment into account:

Regular season - Roy has the 4th highest era-adjusted save percentage from 1956-2022
Playoffs - Roy has the 2nd highest era-adjusted save percentage from 1984-2022

If you don't think it's appropriate to take the scoring environment into account, then surely we agree that Bernie Nicholls (150 pts), Dennis Maruk (136 pts), Kent Nilsson (131 pts) and had higher offensive peaks than Connor McDavid (123 pts), Sidney Crosby (120 pts) and Alexander Ovechkin (112 pts).

(EDIT - during the time that Roy and Brodeur's career overlapped, Roy still had the higher save percentage - and that excludes the four years where Roy led the league in that stat. And Roy is also ahead in the playoffs despite this excluding his two best playoff runs).

 

[ijuka]

Overrated for sure.

His main thing is his longevity, which to me is whatever. I'll take a Tim Thomas peak over Brodeur's decades of mediocre play.

Not even close to top 10 all time.