Where did Yzerman go wrong with the rebuild?

[19 for president]

Beginning to think this entire rebuild hinges on finding a quality replacement for Larkin to take over once he's in his thirties. Could stand to find some more LW, too. Don't know how you can't feel good about the defense and goalies going forward.

Beginning to think this entire rebuild hinges on finding a quality replacement for Larkin to take over once he's in his thirties. Could stand to find some more LW, too. Don't know how you can't feel good about the defense and goalies going forward.

Agreed. I actually mostly like where we are going prospect wise, but I this is going to be a slowish rebuild because we never landed that top 1 or 2 pick to get that star center. We are building from backend and those guys typically take a bit longer to hit their primes.

Goalie: With Cossa and Augustine I think we are will get 1 if not 2 really good NHL starters
Defense: You have the top 4 anchors with Seider and Ed. I think ASP has the makings of the PP maestro, and then you just have to hope that one of Aljo, AntJo, Buium, or Wallinder can round out the top 4 with steady play. They don't need to be world beaters and honestly I don't want them to be because we already have probably (2) 8 mil guys in Seider/Ed (Soon) and maybe a 3rd in ASP if he puts up the offensive numbers we think he can. We can't afford more.
Offense: Ray is a PPG star winger. Kasper I think ends up as a great 3rd line center or fills a Bert type role in the top 6. Maybe 2nd line center with more offensive wingers, but I don't see him as an offensive line driving center. (Would love to be wrong here!) MBN has the grit and shot to be a new age PF. Danielson is the one I hope ends up as replacing Larkin, but he still has quite a ways to develop. I think he's a safe bet as a more offensive 2nd line center (than say Kasper). Then you have Lombardi, Finnie, Berg and Buch developing in that offensive winger mold. I like the nice mix of size and grit we have in that potential top 9. We could certainly use another line driving star guy, maybe Buch will turn into that.

MBN- TBD- Ray
Mazur-Danielson-Buch
Berg/Lombardi-Kasper-Finnie
TBD-Savage-TBD

Seider-Wallinder
Ed- ASP
TBD-TBD

Cossa/ Augustine
TBD

This is a team that is going to win on grit and defense largely, but I do like the skill pieces we have. I'd feel better if we had that sure fire 1st C in the system, but its not a terrible setup. It just isn't flashy. Also NHL teams usually don't have 90% drafted guys so we will likely see signings or trades.

I hate the way this years team was constructed and that Lalonde is still coach, but I don't think our rebuild is a disaster either. I just want to get a coach in sooner rather than later that can actually help develop guys like Seider/Ed/Aljo/Kasper/Ray/etc so that they can reach their peaks.

 

[Air Budd Dwyer]

Terry Foster (long time sports writer for the Pistons and Lions with Detroit News and Freepress) said today that Illitch is hamstringing both the Red Wings and Tigers. Yzerman wanted to sign Stamkos this off-season (thankfully he didn’t lol). Detroit matched Nashville at 3 years so Nashville came back with a 4th year. Stamkos asked if Yzerman could match, Yzerman goes to Illitch and says I need to hear back with the day or tomorrow. He never heard back from Illitch.

I didn’t want Stamkos but it’s the principle behind this. Let the GM cook, let them pick the ingredients. It sounds like, and Foster isn’t someone whose credibility you can question, Yzerman, and Harris for the Tigers, aren’t able to operate the way they truly would like to operate. The Tigers making the playoffs was the worst thing that could’ve happened for that organization. It just reaffirms that Illitch can be cheap, which outside of a brief window with Mike, they’ve always been.

 

[stillwater]

Horvat was traded 2-3yrs ago ...umm having pelikka and kasper for the future or a 1st round playoff exit. Tough call

I'm sure getting mo a partner and splitting up seider and edvinsson is something yzerman wants to do. We could have done alot of deals. Should have traded for tage thompson before he blew up. Sam reinhart ... sh*t happens

Holy cow man, your 20/20 vision is pretty much 20/20!

It's pretty easy to look back and imagine what could have been if you'd only had 20/20 vision and a crystal ball. Every single sports franchise wish they had your perfect vision.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Terry Foster (long time sports writer for the Pistons and Lions with Detroit News and Freepress) said today that Illitch is hamstringing both the Red Wings and Tigers. Yzerman wanted to sign Stamkos this off-season (thankfully he didn’t lol). Detroit matched Nashville at 3 years so Nashville came back with a 4th year. Stamkos asked if Yzerman could match, Yzerman goes to Illitch and says I need to hear back with the day or tomorrow. He never heard back from Illitch.

I didn’t want Stamkos but it’s the principle behind this. Let the GM cook, let them pick the ingredients. It sounds like, and Foster isn’t someone whose credibility you can question, Yzerman, and Harris for the Tigers, aren’t able to operate the way they truly would like to operate. The Tigers making the playoffs was the worst thing that could’ve happened for that organization. It just reaffirms that Illitch can be cheap, which outside of a brief window with Mike, they’ve always been.

The point remains that the GM and owner need to be aligned. Agreed on that. I don't understand the example. If NSH and DET had matching offers of 3yrs of 8MAAV - and NAS bumped to 4, Illitch being concerned with money, a 4th yr wouldn't have been an issue. That's all theoretical at that point, and he was worried about the cost he could've traded Stamkos before that or prevented Steve from signing 8M worth of players in 2028 to offset? The example here doesn't make sense.

 

[stillwater]

The Red Wings are spending to the cap. How can you question the owner's loyalty when he's doing that?

 

[wingsfannn919191]

Holy cow man, your 20/20 vision is pretty much 20/20!

It's pretty easy to look back and imagine what could have been if you'd only had 20/20 vision and a crystal ball. Every single sports franchise wish they had your perfect vision.

you must get a bunch of empty seats at your stand up gigs ... dont give up

 

[Kyleftlx]

i legit don’t understand why Ilitch would hold Yzerman back from a 4th year of Stamkos. Yzerman has spent to the cap 2 years in a row now and likely will continue to do that for at least the foreseeable future unless he just… doesn’t replace guys on expiring deals coming up, considering he has tied up the team with a lot of contracts over the next couple years.

i’m not calling Terry a liar, i’m just saying that it doesn’t really make sense that Ilitch would be ok for 3 years but not 4. I could understand if Ilitch felt like the contract was a bad idea to begin with, but 3 vs 4 years feels like such a weird hang up, especially knowing how weird Yzerman already is with what he’s willing to offer in terms of contract length to guys previously (Debrincat, Kane).

 

[Oddbob]

The point remains that the GM and owner need to be aligned. Agreed on that. I don't understand the example. If NSH and DET had matching offers of 3yrs of 8MAAV - and NAS bumped to 4, Illitch being concerned with money, a 4th yr wouldn't have been an issue. That's all theoretical at that point, and he was worried about the cost he could've traded Stamkos before that or prevented Steve from signing 8M worth of players in 2028 to offset? The example here doesn't make sense.

The Preds were offering 32 mil over 4 vs 24 over 3 by Detroit in this scenario. That is 8 mil for his services, so how is that not an issue?

 

[raymond23]

Anyone trusting Terry Foster and Woodward Sports for inside info on Yzerman is out to lunch

We’re a cap team and will continue to be moving forward anyways

 

[Retire91]

I don't understand this magical age limit of 30 where players are suddenly no longer part of a core. Larkin's game has longevity, he is not one dimensional where if one his one thing declines then his game is toast. Yeah obviously we need players that can fill in or even take over but its not like we need a cup run within 2 years or Larkin suddenly needs to be taken out to pasture. Lots of cup winning teams have 30+ year players in their top 6.

 

[Gniwder]

Stamkos asked if Yzerman could match, Yzerman goes to Illitch and says I need to hear back with the day or tomorrow. He never heard back from Illitch.

Maybe Chris had bigger business to deal with, or maybe he didn't feel like he needed to be involved.

It just reaffirms that Illitch can be cheap, which outside of a brief window with Mike, they’ve always been.

He's spending to the cap limit so it's not about the money. People have said that here before, and I said Chris will spend the cap max, and he has. The Wings make money, so it's a wise business decision.

MLB needs a salary cap, but that's a whole different discussion that belongs on a different forum.

 

[lilidk]

Wtf

Red Wings Ownership Blocks and Shuts Down Steve Yzerman's Big Swing to Sign NHL Superstar in the Summer, Stemkos.​

 

[Dotter]

If this story is out there then it is most certainly fake. Yzerman never tips his hand.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of Stamkos anyhow, especially at 8m.

Red Wings owner allegedly screwed Steve Yzerman who attempted to get Steven Stamkos!

This latest report is incredibly frustrating for fans in Detroit! I can’t believe GM Yzerman has to deal with this…

www.hockeyfeed.com

 

[FMichael]

If this story is out there then it is most certainly fake. Yzerman never tips his hand.

Also, I'm not a huge fan of Stamkos anyhow, especially at 8m.

Red Wings owner allegedly screwed Steve Yzerman who attempted to get Steven Stamkos!

This latest report is incredibly frustrating for fans in Detroit! I can’t believe GM Yzerman has to deal with this…

www.hockeyfeed.com

Forgive my ignorance, but had Yzerman signed Stamkos - would that have meant no Kane and no Tarasenko?

 

[Ulysses31]

Wtf

Red Wings Ownership Blocks and Shuts Down Steve Yzerman's Big Swing to Sign NHL Superstar in the Summer, Stemkos.​

prolly for the better TBH, not that i like the kane n tank signings.

kane signing for 1 yr was a decent gamble sy lost, but i dont know why he thought tank would b good for this team

 

[Dotter]

Forgive my ignorance, but had Yzerman signed Stamkos - would that have meant no Kane and no Tarasenko?

Probably no Tarasenko, but 4 years of Stamkos instead. I think Kane was destined to come back.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but Tuomisto was drafted with the pick right before Kochetkov.

I remember hoping Steve would take a goalie (although I liked Sogaard at the time) since our cupboard was bone dry.

 

[ShakenNotStirred]

Forgive my ignorance, but had Yzerman signed Stamkos - would that have meant no Kane and no Tarasenko?

So what. They are both shells of their former selves. Soft and no defense is cool if you score and have hustle. Those two float

 

[Ulysses31]

Obviously hindsight is 20/20, but Tuomisto was drafted with the pick right before Kochetkov.

I remember hoping Steve would take a goalie (although I liked Sogaard at the time) since our cupboard was bone dry.

think tuomisto b any good? big bodied right hand shot bottom pairing guy b solid

also if we had fabbri instead of tank would prolly have a couple more wins

 

[Snuggs]

Tough for a fan to understand that one if true. Not saying Illitch is cheap cheap, but he's for sure furgal. Lets not act like outside of THIS year he's been near the cap. Last year you had money on the table and made no moves at the TDL in a playoff chase. Idk if that's the GM or ownership (or both) and there's been MANY years in a row he's spending significantly less than the cap(all-beit in a rebuild so I understand)

As for this specific instance, it might have been a good idea to not want term on an aged veteran(dont' hate that idea) but I also don't love ownership really meddling with Yzerman. "IF" Yzerman thought he was worth it, imo, he should be allowed to sign the player.

How credible any of it is... Who knows. Terry Foster and the Red Wings organization aren't exactly "tight" imo.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

Stamkos would've helped the PP but nothing 5on5. Which is what we suck at, I don't really even understand making up the Illitch screwed Stamkos thing. If anything it makes him look good that we didn't sign him.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Tough for a fan to understand that one if true. Not saying Illitch is cheap cheap, but he's for sure furgal. Lets not act like outside of THIS year he's been near the cap. Last year you had money on the table and made no moves at the TDL in a playoff chase. Idk if that's the GM or ownership (or both) and there's been MANY years in a row he's spending significantly less than the cap(all-beit in a rebuild so I understand)

As for this specific instance, it might have been a good idea to not want term on an aged veteran(dont' hate that idea) but I also don't love ownership really meddling with Yzerman. "IF" Yzerman thought he was worth it, imo, he should be allowed to sign the player.

How credible any of it is... Who knows. Terry Foster and the Red Wings organization aren't exactly "tight" imo.

Chris doesn’t care bout the team as much as his daddy did.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Why would Stamkos sign in Detroit if the terms were matched? Tennessee has no income tax so it seems Detroit would have had to increase their offer to account for that. Plus it’s usually Yzerman who is anti term.

 

[JediOrderPizza]

I don't want to give you the money for Stamkos! But here is more money to sign Kane, Tarasenko, Talbot, Gus, Fischer, and Motte which was $15,175,000 not including the Kane bonus and also paying big for Mo and Ray.

But yeah I'm sure he cheaped out on Stammer, sure.

 

[lilidk]

Probably no Tarasenko, but 4 years of Stamkos instead. I think Kane was destined to come back.

4x8 is just crazy for Stemkos .